http://dbd.game/killswitch
Worried about the new Anti-Systems...
I am very excited for the Quality of Life initiative however the Anti-Slugging, Anti- Tunnelling and Anti-Camping in my opinion sound like pretty major changes to gameplay.
What has more worried about is lower tier killers. I can play killers that have strong chase powers with map mobility just fine without these tactics. But a lot of lower tier killers rely pretty heavily on these things .
For example Trapper and Hag rely a lot on being territorial, is the Anti-Camping just going to shut them down completely?
Every killer can tunnel, but one that i feel like needs to do it even more than others is Nemesis.
Anti-Slugging actually affects more higher tier killers where slugging is often a result of just using their power correctly. Oni and Twins.
So yeah i really hope BHVR is carefully considering the balance of killers when it comes to these changes otherwise i think it will further push people to play strong chase killers with map mobility like Blight and Hillbilly more than ever.
Comments
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I wouldn't expect any changes to the game to make up for killers getting a bunch of restrictions.
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BHVR's been steadily buffing killers and killer perks over the past few years, I don't anticipate that changing any time soon.
More killers are in a healthy spot now than ever, and I definitely disagree that any of them need to lean on the cheesy crutch strats being discussed here. I could see killers like Oni and Twins being potentially harmed by anti-slug if it isn't done properly, though, so that's what I'll be looking out for most personally.
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Well, certainly didn't take long for the pre-emptive strike posts to start.
I suppose the forums meta is to get the feedback in early that the system(s) are overpowered and need a nerf because they might possibly do something under specific circumstances.
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Yes, I have said already on Bluesky and other posts on these forums, they need to address the REASONS these things happen, not just slap an "Anti" sticker bandaid on them.
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It's too early to tell, but as I said in previous post, I do worry so it does not push too heavy on restrictive gameplay (overkill to killers). However it's good we at least try to change the least fun playstyles and see where it goes.
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These aren't specific circumstances they are very general. I assume you're salty about anti-face camping not working outside of face camping
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Trapper and Hag absolutely need to play territorial in high level. It's not even cheesy crutch it's just how those killers are played. It's unpopular though which is why those killers are unpopular. Will be even more if devs are not considering them with these changes.
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Anti camping is being left for phase 2 for a reason: It is the hardest one to pinpoint.
I hope once it is implemented they can properly buff hag and trapper to be map control killers that can't cheese kills with hook camping
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They already implementing anti-tunnel and anti-camping and it didn't change the killers playstyle, it just made them substantially weaker. BHVR keeps banging their heads against a wall by simply nerfing killers, instead of trying to tackle the reason as to why they do what they do.
Madness is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
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There's a difference between playing territorial and camping, though.
Hag and Trapper generally want to stick to the same half of the map, not super close specifically to a hooked survivor. Obviously we'll have to wait and see here, but I genuinely don't see any possible version of an anti-camp feature that requires you to go stand on the other side of the map entirely.
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You can assume all you like, but for me the shining example of this was reassurance being nerfed from the ptb "due to feedback". We likely wouldn't have needed AFC at all if they had simply added "press e to cancel reassurance". But here we are.
ETA: we have zero details on these systems right now. Literally nothing to go on. But based on things like AFC, which is a very specific circumstance and is designed to not affect "camping in general", the evidence is much more that these systems will be extremely limited, and not, as you say, "general".
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everything else in health updates is a huge W, but when you reach points of anti-slugging, anti-camping and anti-tunneling without the slightest mention of finally making hooking/spreading hooks again is very concerning.
For anti-camping, i severely hope it's something like giving teammates info on anti-facecamp progress and/or basekit Kindred and nothing else, because camping is perfectly counterable atm.
For anti-slugging, i hope we will just see bleeding out and Knock Out being addressed, because anything more will result in killers like Oni, Plague and Twins getting heavily impacted by game design and will generally fail to address why slugging is a thing in general.
For anti-tunneling, really? With current anti-tunneling perks state tunneling is close to impossible if teams has at least some gamesense, any further punishment for tunneling is simply rewarding refusal to counter it.
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I think they've just reached a point where they realized that catering to a minority of sweaty players who predominantly play one side isn't the best way to make the game more popular. It's likely the massive license they have coming up is what sparked these changes. Things like tunneling, slugging, etc are a huge turn off for new players. If little Jimmy who mains Blight can't get a 500 win streak as easily because tunneling is slightly weaker then that's just too bad for him. I can't imagine being a new player right now. First game you get hard tunneled out by a Blight. Second game your teammate gives up because he was the first one down. Third game you get bled out by a Wraith. The depressing thing about current DBD is this isn't even an unrealistic scenario.
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These changes could range anywhere from "barely effects anything" to "punishes most killers in the game just for playing it". If it swings towards the latter side, it could be the beginning of DbD finally dying if they manage to push away the killer playerbase.
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I don't think it's exactly unfair to voice concern when there's the potential for massive changes to the core loop of the game.
Obviously we can't know how it'll look without more details but there's the potential for disaster if it's done wrong.
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Yeah, in concept i agree with everything, but am worried as its all "anti-killer does thing" and not "lets encourage killer to do the thing"
Where is my "anti-gen rush" and "anti-first survivor predrops pallets and i lose 3 gens in the first chase every game?"
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But they fail to address little timmy survivor main playing with his 3 friends and doing the same thing.
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Survivor spawn adjustments.
That's the thing that'll stop you losing 3 gens in the first chase unless you really get outplayed. Survivors not being able to spawn all spread out like that is a huge boon for the average killer early game.
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Thank you devs,for listening.
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I do agree that if they force survivors to always spawn together, that will be solid, it always sucks when you see yourself spawning in the middle of the map because you just know all 4 survivors are in 4 corners of the map.
But i think the biggest issue there is the swing 1 way or another. That first 90 seconds of gameplay is the most important part of the game, and will likely dictate how the entire match plays out. And this is for both sides. I don't think it should work that way. There should be a more natural ebb and flow of the match where you aren't always sure who is going to win right away.
I think even just a basekit corrupt that lasts 30 seconds and maybe doing something with hexes to prevent survivors from finding them instantly (maybe a basekit corrupt on totems for 30 seconds? or hexes don't actually light up for the first x seconds?) would be a good start to the early game. While doing something to give survivors a little more power when they are near the end of the game
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I understand your worries since sometimes the developers do really bad changes that makes the game more unhealthy like the hole slugging situation came due to all of the hook nerf (70sec, nerf to genperks ect.). But the developers also have good ideas that don't change the normal gameplay but make it better: The anti-face-camp-feates removed the boring face-camp Bubba players while the 3gen-feature was healthy for both sides. Back in the days, they also had a good idea for box-camping Pig by adding a fifth box. On top of it, the developers want a 60% killrate and will never ever add or change something that could reduce it since everything else will be miserable.
Then, Mandy said in a post awhile ago that there are different types of slugging which means the devs know that there is slugging for 4K (mini holding hostage), slugging for pressure, slugging since unpickable, and more. We can also asume that they also know there are different types of camping and tunnling. Speaking of tunnling, I also believe the devs know that some antitunnelperks are abusable (they nerfed DS to make it less bs)
Next, just because they call it "anti-something", does not mean it is for free. In my opinion, a healthy anti-camp-feature could be that killers cannot use their power around 12meters a hook or get punished for it (similar to Dredge or Artist). Anti-slugging feature could be an Unbreakable but you gain one hook state for it - a fair trade. There are many options how to make a feature good and healthy for both sides but not mindlessly unhealthy and stupid. In addition, the developers said they want to test the anti-tunnel feature in an upcoming Chaos Shuffle and then there will also be a PTB for everything. If we test it well and give a good feedback, the developers will fix potencial issues and make it either better or move back (similar to when they tested basekit Mori and Unbreakable) - They listen to our feedback.
Lastly, some killers still need some QoL changes or buffs, especially the weaker ones (Legion, Demo, Ghost Face) and if these new features will make these weak killers even weaker, it is a good thing in the long term because then the developers have to buff them and can no longer ignore the gap between these and the stronger ones. I know, this sounds a bit awkward but I guess it would be a necessary evil.
Overall, I can understand your worries and I share them a little bit with you but we should wait how these features look in praxis before we judge or being to worried about them.
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If the latter scenario happens, bhvr is obvious gonna do something alleviate those issues like they've done in the past or just roll back the feature and either further working on it to try again another time with a different iteration or just try a different approach altogether.
Any hypothetical doomsday scenario of the game dying is incredibly unlikely to happen at this point in the game's lifespan and would require something way more damaging and controversial that bhvr wouldn't simply just be able to fix in the game or bounce back from due to some external factor outside the game.
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I appreciate your understanding and rationality
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Im not too concerned by the changes effecting killers negatively because last I heard the Devs hit the target rate of 60% kill rate. Anything that changes that figure will mean a buff for killers or nerf for survivors to maintain the 60% kill rate. So basically if the anti tunnel/camp makes it harder for killers to get kills and the stats reflect this, there will be buffs for killers or nerfs for survivors to compensate.
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The percentage of Regression was increased, but instead Gen Kick is now up to 8 times. Survivors will now get out if they are near a hook for a certain amount of time, even if there is a Hex Totem or Gen nearby. The hook stage per person has been increased up to 20 seconds. Survivors can share their actions with each other via HUD. Hook grabs have been removed, so only one person needs to come running to unhook a survivor. Bolo time is now the default. Off the Record has been enhanced and lasts for 60 seconds.
All Killer is allowed to do is pray that he doesn't pull a map of Ormond, Badam, Red Forest, GoJ, etc., and chase the survivor that appears in front of him 7-8 times. Currently, I can barely strategize my way around the tunnels, camps, Gen defenses and hook stages by repeatedly leaving 0 survivor slugging, but once that is gone, the killer player is finally nothing more than an employee of the attraction.
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Stats don't reflect the player experience. They are too slow at individual killer balancing for wide game balance changes to be compensated for at an acceptable pace. They need to not cause the need for compensation in the first place.
I just hope these anti-systems aren't drastic enough to warrant causing new problems is all i'm hoping.1 -
I understand where you are coming from. When I read anti-Slugging, anti- Tunnelling and anti-Camping. I thought "Here we go" Killer won't be able to do much. But I was worried about the AFC would wrongly impact players who didn't do that. Well that turned out to be a nothing burger.
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Im sick of the devs removing player agency. Matches are dynamic and killers have to react to things as the match progresses. With all these anti systems they are basically saying "you can only play the game this specific way" and that is super freakin unfair when survivors get to play however they want. I also resent the fact that the devs will allmost certainly try to force killers to hook again while also not doing anything to fix the things that got us here in the first place. Its like the devs only listen to one side, or the people who cry the loudest. This is going to lead to a deeply unhealthy game state where killer is absolutely miserable to play, just you watch.
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Hooray…I'm so excited for Ghostface to have even less stopping power!
Eating a wall of endurance with no workaround on an M1 killer is my dream experience 👍️
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Hopefully they will make adjustments to ghostface again. The last set of buffs were small. Better then nothing but he needs more love.
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I will come back when they provide access to all perks (level 3) to all killers.
If I buy a killer, their perks (tier 3) should be available to all other killers instantly.
I also stopped playing because it is impossible to play in the morning/afternoon on console because the maps are very dark, you can't see anything because you need a $2000 TV screen with anti-glare.btw remove the random bloodweb, 90% of BP goes to addons that I will never use.
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