http://dbd.game/killswitch
yay guys, more anti-killer changes coming soon
Comments
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good so you admit that they were meta. Thats all I needed. They were meta for 5 years just like dead hard yet you made it seem like it’s only survivors that get to keep their meta perks. Dont believe me?
again with the ruin was bad take lol. The perk was the mosted used perk for a reason. Because it was meta you even said it. “Only good survivors” always a cheap point since there isn’t no consensus for what a good survivor even is
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ok, cool? youve made the amazing connection that both perks were meta. perks have varying strengths and dead hard completely outclassed both ruin and noed x 10. if your whole argument is a "but both were meta gotcha" then i guess you win in that regard.
and yeah, when me and my swf played back then we never even bothered cleansing ruin because we just hit the skill check and did the gens. it was meta against bad to decent players. new ruin is better8 -
So, do you think the average killer should have access to tools that'll allow them to beat those 'ultra high level' teams? Because that's not exactly 'balanced'.
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“ok, cool? youve made the amazing connection that both perks were meta”
Nope just called out your bias
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my bias of what exactly? if ruin and noed were on the same strength as dead hard i wouldnt have said that. but they never were and you have yet to address that
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yeah i do actually :) i think the "spreading hooks" playstyle should be buffed because it takes more skill than tunneling yet for some reason is less effective.
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You can fix that problem by nerfing tunnelling, without aiming for a 100% winrate for killers.
Seriously, if you're begging for a 100% winrate, just play custom games against bots. Or play something else. I hear Civilisation is pretty popular.
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Exactly, at first it was gen progress. 10 seconds are added, still a problem with gens.
Behavior compensates the change by adding more seconds to hook timer, people complain about that change.
Point period, people play how they want to play and no incentives will change the playstyle.
Behavior could allow survivors to collect parts around the map, people would still camp and tunnel to their hearts content as the playstyle would be even more buffed with less people on gens.
People just want easy games and will take the easiest route to get it, whether killer or survivor.
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if slug can make killer 4k.
then killer can use slug meta.
why killer not hook and Control generator any more?
because that can't make killer get 3k or 4k.
If survivor can not escape from gate. because fix all gen is impossible.
then survivor will carry Clairvoyance、Sole Survivor meta.
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I think comparing the two playstyles is a bit naive given that they serve completely different purposes.
I didn't play during old ruin (the one where you had to hit great skill checks to avoid passive slowdown) - you have to admit that it was goofy watching people gen tap to prevent the active slowdown ruin provided.
If you're talking about ruin/undying, it was incredibly strong. Even if Ruin is weaker now, I'd argue that it needs a buff if anything - it was still a strong combination that many killers utilized.
Same for the survivor side with Dead Hard. I probably was one of the few survivors who didn't use it (I got tired of seeing exhausted on the ground) when I timely hit it. Even Dead Hard now (in my opinion) is a weaker Dramaturgy. It's the only exhaustion perk that doesn't effectively work like an exhaustion perk only giving you three times. It's a gutted version of how it was and its nerf buffed tunneling as no one needs to wait out a Dead Hard anymore.
Old Dead Hard, sure - it was overused and it deserved the nerf that it got but what it is now is a weak perk that people are better off using other exhaustion perks for, but that's my opinion — I might be biased as a Sprint Burst user, but I'd argue Sprint Burst takes more skill than Dead Hard. 😁
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Comp games have rules in place to make the game fairer. They also are, you know, played against other comp players.
If the average Killer tried to tunnel a comp Survivor team "smartly" they'd still get obliterated.
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So far the slug change they actually announced i think is rather positive as it saves everyone time. I am very nervous though, if they intend to gut the current meta and force killers to hook again, im probably gonna quit. Killer was way to stressful in the hook meta with all the nerfs that have happened and all the second chances survivors get. It's super unfun to deal with all of that plus a litany of other things. If im not able to actually have any fun then why I am I even playing? I'l be sad because of the hours I have and the money I spent but if the devs want to push the game back to a state that is stressful and unfun to play then il have to walk away.
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Ok I understand now. Instead of buffing the bad card and nerfing the good card, we should just keep nerfing the good card so they're both dog #########. But its ok cuz now they're the same level and everything's fair, right?
It's very difficult to talk to you because I say one thing and you assume 10 other things. At no point did I say that killers should have a "100% win rate".3 -
it doesn't really matter if its played against other comp players, and im not taking average 500 hour Andys into the equation here.
the point is that you said tunneling/camping isn't effective, which is false, because if it weren't then the very best players in the world wouldn't be doing it.
in fact, its not even against other comp players do they do it. survivor meta is so busted right now to the point where if you go against a good 4 man, the things they can bring is so insanely strong that even those players must tunnel or play "dirty"3 -
"10 seconds added to gens" every gen perk is nerfed and survivors are given basekit features + brand new and unbelievably strong new perks to prevent the killer from doing their objective
its funny to mention hook timer because that actually incentivizes spreading hooks even less… its literally just less pressure for hooking someone. its ironic that it hurts that play style more than it does camping.
"people play how they want to play and no incentives will change that play style" this is not exactly groundbreaking… both sides do it and will bring the most busted ######### imaginable and play in the most efficient way to win. which is why im not against a severe tunnel nerf as long as they make spreading hooks actually good, and it seems like they have no intention to do that.
"people just want easy games" is such a lazy way to put it. people tunnel because the other option, "playing nice" sucks and always has sucked as a strategy. a better way would be to say "people don't want to get 10 hooks and only get a 2k after sweating their ass off to get to that point, they want it even less when the game itself rewards the killer for kills over hooks"3 -
can I ask you why you think they would nerf survivors when over the past 3 years they have implemented like 5 different basekit changes in order to greatly assist survivors against tunneling killers and show no intention of stopping? the last basekit killer change was 10 sec extra on gens and a 2.5% increase on breaking pallets and hitting. in return all our gen regression got nerfed and survivors got basekit borrowed time + a new meta perk, off the record.
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And how often does all that play out just like that in the average trial? Outside maybe the top 10% of matches it's such a mixed bag or slaughter.
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I don't think it has anything to do with them being anti-killer. It's purely about retaining new players from the FNAF chapter. This health update is them addressing unpleasant play styles that will potentially drive said newcomers away. They don't want new players coming and being slugged on the ground to bleed out, or being tunnelled out within a couple of minutes of the game, because they know it gives the game a bad look. It's the same reason they're penalising going next as well. They know when 99% of the games for the 3 months after the chapter are going to be against Springtrap, that survivors will start going next more frequently. They don't want that to be a new potential killer main's experience with the game.
The changes aren't personal. It's purely business at the end of the day.
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You yourself said the 'bad card' still netted you a 90% winrate. If you consider that 'dog****', what else is one to conclude other than you wanting a 100% winrate?
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if you have played this game for more than 1k hours, you quickly realize that about 90% of survivors are bad at the game.
I could likely win those games by playing trapper with no perks, doesn't mean its a good strategy.
It's a 90% win rate not because the strategy is good, but because the vast majority of people are bad at this game. Look at SoloQ.
When you go against actual good players (the 10%) the strategy falls apart.
If the card only works against potatoes then it is not a good card.7 -
just because most of the players in this game are bad and the average trial is against solo q noobs doesn't mean that we should just ignore the capability of actual good teams to abuse the hell out of the broken tools we keep giving them
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This is, of course, the only possible explanation, as your own gameplay is immaculate and beyond reproach.
Your skill is totes not a factor in this or anything.
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of course, the classic "the card isn't bad, you just need to get better"
my fault, when I go against the 4 man who sent me to gas heaven with quadruple meta perks that activate upon hooking I can rest assured that keeping the game a 1v4 for as long as possible was definitely the best play if wanted to win.
can we stop the "its your own skill" BS? Some games are literally impossible to win without tunneling and if you can't see that then it says more about your skill than it does the person who tunneled to win.5 -
Who said anything about 'best play'?
It just has to be 'good enough', not the best play.
can we stop the "its your own skill" BS?
No, not as long as you're trying to up-end the entire balancing of the game because you might lose one in ten matches. You said yourself that these changes are not going to impact 90% of your games, so why should anyone care that you -might- lose one in ten matches when survivors -finally- get to play the game normally?
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and its not good enough against survivors who are actually good at the game.
sure, like I said you can win most matches by doing it because the average survivor is not good at the game.
lol im fine with losing one in ten matches because I got outplayed, the problem arises when you remove the only chance players have against those teams. then you lose the matches because you never stood a chance to begin with.3 -
lol im fine with losing one in ten matches because I got outplayed, the problem arises when you remove the only chance players have against those teams. then you lose the matches because you never stood a chance to begin with.
You have to deal with this one in ten matches, survivors have to deal with this every time they get camped, tunnelled or slugged. Why should we care about what is a rarity for you when it has to be balanced against a common thing for survivors?
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because average survivors who suffer from it are only getting better at the game. its their choice whether they want to stick around to become that 10% that can deal with it. good survivors aren't getting any worse.
and also its a competitive game and we shouldn't be balancing around bad players even if they make up the majority.1 -
That's not how they've been basing their changes. They do primarily consider that average match first and foremost, with some thought to the newbies next. And that mythical high MMR area maybe like fourth or fifth, if at all.
It hasn't been about what's possible but unlikely. It's about attempting to address the most common frustrations most players face.
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I understand what you're saying, but basically MMR and matchmaking are broken. The devs have made a point the last few years to balance for the average. As a high MMR killer you will face more competent teams but you still face a large portion of solo q/back filled garbage. So basically you'll have a some extremely difficult matches mixed in with basically free wins that mean absolutely nothing. The alternative is to be in queues that are 30 mintues to an hour long or more which is pretty much what happened when MMR was first introduced. The devs have lost control of the game, and while the changes they're proposing might sound good to some players will do nothing to increase the player base or overall fun long term.
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because average survivors who suffer from it are only getting better at the game.
Apparently in contrast to killers who are just consistently getting worse.
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Actually, I said tunneling doesn't often let you beat teams significantly better than you.
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It's a lot more than people give it credit for. If you're losing 3 gens in your first chase, and it's not because you're just doing really badly, it's because the survivors spawned spread out and immediately started repairing. With this change, that will never happen again.
As for the second part, nnnoooot really. The better equivalent of tunnelling would be something like the definition of genrushing I prefer, which is survivors bringing stacked toolbox builds— both are leveraging something unbalanced to get disproportionate value for how much effort they're putting in.
The only real difference is that tunnelling is basekit, and genrushing requires you to give up loadout slots to do it.
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Do you think basekit borrowed time was a positive change or a negative change?
Do you think the hook proximity anti-camp meter was a positive or negative change?
How about the HUD display where solo-queue survivors can finally coordinate on the level of SWF to see what other survivors are doing - game breaking or no?
Do you think the mori changes where killers could mori off rip was a horrible change, yes or no?
All of these changes were addressed due to certain playstyles. It wasn't "fun" being immediately unhooked and moried. Same for the fact that survivors would be unhooked and immediately back on the hook if they had no exhaustion or second chance perks to counter these tactics that killers had.
All of the perks that people typically point out are perks that are ONLY strong in SWF, yet keep having fingers pointed at them. Same thing you hear every time any survivor perk gets released - "perk is too strong, needs to be nerfed." we saw that with Reassurance (barely used), Counterforce (barely used), Shoulder The Burden (barely used) yawn
They increased the hook timer to compensate for the gen timer being added, if you'd like we can go back to the regular hook timer with 80 second gens. You want to talk about killer nerfs this, killer nerfs that, but patch 6.1.0 was an inherent buff towards killers, along with the gutting of maps and fog removal but again - SWF perks are too strong, when SWF isn't even the majority player base anyways.
Notice how I mention how both sides do the things they do to win. People genrush because it's the easiest way to escape, people tunnel and slug because it's the easiest way to 4k. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's specifically just survivor buffs that placate killer playstyles. Both effectively do it to one another and doing this whole, Behavior nerfs killer, poor victim mentality for Killer is a pretty weird take in all honesty. Both do what they need to secure a "win" as the game is competitive by nature due to the nerfs and buffs BOTH sides get.
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again with the ruin was bad take lol. The perk was the mosted used perk for a reason. Because it was meta you even said it. “Only good survivors” always a cheap point since there isn’t no consensus for what a good survivor even is
not even your average survivor player would know to tell you what an actually good survivor is, they'd maybe just say "a survivor that lasts long in chase" and that would be all
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Even then, they just pressure gens and take the 3 man out when necessary. They play much differently compared to regular public players as they will actively pressure gens, take hits for one another due to precise clock callouts, consistently have long chases from these accurate callouts, and can communicate with one another about add-ons or perks that the killer runs.
This pales in comparison to regular solo-queue players and even duos. People in public matches play much more altruistic or even selfish in some situations.
Comp players on the other hand are much more efficient from the inherent advantages of being a comp player.
Comparing the two is redundant as comp DBD is different from regular DBD.
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I fail to see anything being a nerf to survivors tho:
1. surrender option, mainly a buff since you dont have to DC to play another game.
2. gamma adjustments, people are already doing this on PC for ages, all this does is give it to console killers, who are arguably underperforming compared to pc killers in general anyway, so not really a nerf either way. Especially since survivors also get it, and a lot of killers that currently benefit from a map being dark (dredge especially), will be less effective. But again, survivors are found slightly easier too. Not a nerf or buff either way and if any noticable effect takes place, it would affect killers more negatively than survivors
3. Go next implementation, will depend on what it will take into account. I think it will be pattern based rather than being based on individual matches. In fact, I think one of the most important factors will be purposely missing hook skillchecks as the first survivor to die, with 4-5 gens remaining and instantly joining another game. Where people who might be the first survivor to die by purposely missing hook skillchecks at 5 gens, but instead will close the game, wont be identified. The system would need some transparancy to players, so we can actively report it when the system is applied in cases where it shouldnt have been, but that's kinda the only questionable addition in the list that could actively negatively affect normal survivor players.
4. Crows instantly revealing survivors might sound like a nerf, but is it really? There are already very easy ways to avoid crows in general. The only personal issue I have with the crow changes, is having to wait for 3 crows before losing collision instead of 2. Because its RARE for 2 crows to appear at any time. In fact, what I would add is make the survivor exposed and cagable (like in 2v8) at 3 crows instead, so that a killer can go there, down and instantly hook them without wasting time. But not a nerf.
5. Map offerings, the only actual nerf, but one that has been needed since 2017. It's weird that 1 survivor offering can fully cancel 1 killer offering. I do still hope they would give killers a 50% chance instead of a 20% chance, and give the ability to stack to survivors, so that survivors would need at least 3 offerings to match the chances of the killer, but that's open for interpretation later down the line and probably would need a bit more work.
6. Spawn rules changing are both a buff and a nerf. Its easier for survivors to remain undetected for longer, and due to other spawn rules they can accurately predict where the killer spawned and sit freely on a gen in that area, but Lethal Pursuer grants more value, and killers can predict where you and your teammates spawned, leading to more consistent early chases if survivors dont avoid being detected properly.
The rest of the points dont really matter, but I fail to see, other than map offerings, how any of this is a nerf for survivors by any means.
And I wont be needing to buy you a drink for part 1, because point 1 and 3 are HUGE benefits for survivor games in general. It's not a buff or nerf, but more consistently playing a 4v1 rather than having 35% of my games being a 3v1 is a win. The map offering one doesnt matter except for SWF, and SWF needs a nerf anyway.0 -
Funny how you found Slug/Tunnel takes no skill when Killer actually has to outplay Survivors in chase to do that.
At the same time, Survivors holding M1 on Gens + Go for marathon with Sprint Burst/Lithe when Killer comes are so incredibly ‘skillful’ that they should win about every matches, especially against M1 Killers.
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After reading through many of your posts, I’m curious about your opinion on my case.
For your context I mostly play Killer with no meta perks, and go for hooks. I don’t tunnel/camp/slug unless Survivors bodyblocks.
Now, do you believe if I told you I lost most matches when paired with Survivors who are actually on-par with my skill? Survivors who doesn’t fall for simple tricks that can go toe-to-toe with me in chase. In other words, an opponent who’s more interesting to face.
Most matches that I won are against those who clearly isn’t as skillful as me, who only lasts 10 seconds in chase. These matches are boring that sometimes I even let them all escape.
So what should I even do at this point?
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Thats an item efficiency penalty, not a speed penalty. Why would anyone double a gen if it doesn't repair faster?
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Those win streaks are flukes and anomalies and you know it. I wonder why I can count the amount of people who've achieved those streaks on 1 hand? Surely 95% of those matches weren't weak teams, who didn't take ANY advantage of their maps, perks, or individual pressure.
That especially doesn't make sense with the kill rate, the "ideal 60%." All that means is, for the power role, you're getting a draw a majority of the time, no matter what. That's not very strong to me.
Why does the BP gained even matter? We're talking about balance.
I don't care what big name's SWF it is, especially if they're bully smurfs, but they should be beatable, and they're just not most of the time. They're in communication, making 1 person's info everyone's info, they know how to run the loops to waste a guaranteed amount of killer time, and they know what gens to do and what side of the map to lead the killer to. Your average killer is going to be weaker in that, not necessarily in skill, but in power. Most killers have absolutely no power over survivors who know what they're doing. They're just going through the motions, and how well they play will not change the outcome of the match, because of all the advantages The survivors have. So the game's not weighted to them at all.
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Exactly. People think that Pain Res 100% of the time gets max value, hits the right gen exactly when the killer needs it to, and that the killer's always able to stop the gen before it's finished, and that you're able to make the Scourge Hook in the first place. They have no idea how difficult it is to make any killer perk work, because they've either never played the role, or they played 5 matches against noobs and said, "See?" But I remember a time where killers were using peak Pop and peak Pain Res, were getting like 7-8 uses of each, and the gens still got done. That's how ridiculous this game is, and how ridiculous it is that people expect so much of the killer and so little of the survivors.
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Doubling on a gen does repair faster than if only one person were on there, but you'll get overall more gen progress if you split up because there's a basekit penalty on co-op. That would be what they're referring to. It's why experienced players will always split up at the start of the game. It's more efficient for everyone to be on separate gens than all on the same one.
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The issue here is that gen regression was required. You change out one perk for a stealth perk? Gens will go faster, giving you less value out of your stealth perk as the game is now shorter, not to mention all the stealth perks in the game are easy to call out. Aura reading? So I can watch those survivors across the map complete a gen instead of using pain resonance to delay it's completion potentially long enough that I can just go and kick them off it myself instead?
The issue isn't that killers aren't bringing perks to help them where they're lacking (They are, most of the roster lacks gen regression), its that the line between "Does nothing" and "Overpowered" is so thin now that the one perk, with no changes, can be both at the same time. Speaking as a xeno main whose primary form of "gen slowdown" is absolute aggression in chases and getting quick downs, it's just not enough. Even throwing a regression perk on just leads to gens being done faster than I can proc regression.
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The proposed changes don't sound like they're anti-killer at all. They sound like they're meant to make the game playable for survivors instead of letting them get tunneled out at five gens due to flawed game design. Done right, this could be a major improvement to the game.
Personally, I see most of the things listed as unlikely to change my killer gameplay at all.
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Ik that, but he didn't seem to know what the red bar actually meant
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Dude, are killers not allowed to play to win? That's what you're saying, as justification for all of this speculation. I don't play to make survivors miserable. I'm just playing the game, and if these strategies are required to win, I will use them. The killer perks really have been nerfed to the ground, to where mediocre stuff like Brutal Strength and Agitation are probably in the top 10 killer perks now, because at least you get something from them. And there are survivor perks, which haven't really been touched that counter all these strategies like tunneling and slugging. Use them.
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Except it doesn't mean nothing. The power in DS isn't the stun duration (that's just extra), but in the fact the killer has to re-chase you, possibly commiting to a bad play, or else they got nothing for chasing you, downing you, and picking you up. And it's far from guaranteed to go immediately down again. That would imply that the killer could just do that in any event, in which case you're not playing well.
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I actually disagree. I think the average survivor caliber has gone way down, because there's nothing pushing them to improve at the game. Any time they face any difficulty, mommy BHVR steps in and nerfs the killer so that they can win. I think the average killer skill has gone way up, because only the most mentally resilient and elite killers will have stayed playing the role with all the nonsense it's been through, and that's why the survivors are complaining the killer's always OP. The MMR system puts the mid survivors with these really good killers, and they oftentimes lose because of that. But oftentimes even they win, because they've got so much free stuff going for them.
I agree about the transporting to the past part. If I had the experience I had now, and went back let's say 2 years ago, I would be slaying. Killer has just lost so much in so little time, I'm frustrated that I never appreciated or never capitalized on how "good" we had it back then.
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Strawman. Nobody's asking for a 100% win rate. I have heard that we should play something else though, like Civilization.
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you’re looking too far into it - I have liked @Pulsar comment and happen to read through most comments and like the ones that resonate or make good points - on both sides of any argument for the record
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