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Kill Switch update: We have temporarily Kill Switched the Forgotten Ruins Map due to an issue that causes players to become stuck in place. The Map will remain out of rotation until this is resolved.

http://dbd.game/killswitch

yay guys, more anti-killer changes coming soon

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Comments

  • ABAEX
    ABAEX Member Posts: 333

    if slug can make killer 4k.

    then killer can use slug meta.

    why killer not hook and Control generator any more?

    because that can't make killer get 3k or 4k.

    If survivor can not escape from gate. because fix all gen is impossible.

    then survivor will carry Clairvoyance、Sole Survivor meta.

  • CautionaryMary
    CautionaryMary Member Posts: 807
    edited February 18

    I think comparing the two playstyles is a bit naive given that they serve completely different purposes.

    I didn't play during old ruin (the one where you had to hit great skill checks to avoid passive slowdown) - you have to admit that it was goofy watching people gen tap to prevent the active slowdown ruin provided.

    If you're talking about ruin/undying, it was incredibly strong. Even if Ruin is weaker now, I'd argue that it needs a buff if anything - it was still a strong combination that many killers utilized.

    Same for the survivor side with Dead Hard. I probably was one of the few survivors who didn't use it (I got tired of seeing exhausted on the ground) when I timely hit it. Even Dead Hard now (in my opinion) is a weaker Dramaturgy. It's the only exhaustion perk that doesn't effectively work like an exhaustion perk only giving you three times. It's a gutted version of how it was and its nerf buffed tunneling as no one needs to wait out a Dead Hard anymore.

    Old Dead Hard, sure - it was overused and it deserved the nerf that it got but what it is now is a weak perk that people are better off using other exhaustion perks for, but that's my opinion — I might be biased as a Sprint Burst user, but I'd argue Sprint Burst takes more skill than Dead Hard. 😁

  • Nomade
    Nomade Member Posts: 329

    So far the slug change they actually announced i think is rather positive as it saves everyone time. I am very nervous though, if they intend to gut the current meta and force killers to hook again, im probably gonna quit. Killer was way to stressful in the hook meta with all the nerfs that have happened and all the second chances survivors get. It's super unfun to deal with all of that plus a litany of other things. If im not able to actually have any fun then why I am I even playing? I'l be sad because of the hours I have and the money I spent but if the devs want to push the game back to a state that is stressful and unfun to play then il have to walk away.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394

    Ok I understand now. Instead of buffing the bad card and nerfing the good card, we should just keep nerfing the good card so they're both dog #########. But its ok cuz now they're the same level and everything's fair, right?

    It's very difficult to talk to you because I say one thing and you assume 10 other things. At no point did I say that killers should have a "100% win rate".

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394

    it doesn't really matter if its played against other comp players, and im not taking average 500 hour Andys into the equation here.

    the point is that you said tunneling/camping isn't effective, which is false, because if it weren't then the very best players in the world wouldn't be doing it.

    in fact, its not even against other comp players do they do it. survivor meta is so busted right now to the point where if you go against a good 4 man, the things they can bring is so insanely strong that even those players must tunnel or play "dirty"

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394

    "10 seconds added to gens" every gen perk is nerfed and survivors are given basekit features + brand new and unbelievably strong new perks to prevent the killer from doing their objective

    its funny to mention hook timer because that actually incentivizes spreading hooks even less… its literally just less pressure for hooking someone. its ironic that it hurts that play style more than it does camping.

    "people play how they want to play and no incentives will change that play style" this is not exactly groundbreaking… both sides do it and will bring the most busted ######### imaginable and play in the most efficient way to win. which is why im not against a severe tunnel nerf as long as they make spreading hooks actually good, and it seems like they have no intention to do that.

    "people just want easy games" is such a lazy way to put it. people tunnel because the other option, "playing nice" sucks and always has sucked as a strategy. a better way would be to say "people don't want to get 10 hooks and only get a 2k after sweating their ass off to get to that point, they want it even less when the game itself rewards the killer for kills over hooks"

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394
    edited February 19

    can I ask you why you think they would nerf survivors when over the past 3 years they have implemented like 5 different basekit changes in order to greatly assist survivors against tunneling killers and show no intention of stopping? the last basekit killer change was 10 sec extra on gens and a 2.5% increase on breaking pallets and hitting. in return all our gen regression got nerfed and survivors got basekit borrowed time + a new meta perk, off the record.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 6,989

    And how often does all that play out just like that in the average trial? Outside maybe the top 10% of matches it's such a mixed bag or slaughter.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394

    and its not good enough against survivors who are actually good at the game.

    sure, like I said you can win most matches by doing it because the average survivor is not good at the game.

    lol im fine with losing one in ten matches because I got outplayed, the problem arises when you remove the only chance players have against those teams. then you lose the matches because you never stood a chance to begin with.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 394
    edited February 19

    because average survivors who suffer from it are only getting better at the game. its their choice whether they want to stick around to become that 10% that can deal with it. good survivors aren't getting any worse.

    and also its a competitive game and we shouldn't be balancing around bad players even if they make up the majority.

  • SharonPancakes
    SharonPancakes Member Posts: 105

    I understand what you're saying, but basically MMR and matchmaking are broken. The devs have made a point the last few years to balance for the average. As a high MMR killer you will face more competent teams but you still face a large portion of solo q/back filled garbage. So basically you'll have a some extremely difficult matches mixed in with basically free wins that mean absolutely nothing. The alternative is to be in queues that are 30 mintues to an hour long or more which is pretty much what happened when MMR was first introduced. The devs have lost control of the game, and while the changes they're proposing might sound good to some players will do nothing to increase the player base or overall fun long term.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,933

    Actually, I said tunneling doesn't often let you beat teams significantly better than you.

  • CautionaryMary
    CautionaryMary Member Posts: 807
    edited February 19

    Do you think basekit borrowed time was a positive change or a negative change?

    Do you think the hook proximity anti-camp meter was a positive or negative change?

    How about the HUD display where solo-queue survivors can finally coordinate on the level of SWF to see what other survivors are doing - game breaking or no?

    Do you think the mori changes where killers could mori off rip was a horrible change, yes or no?

    All of these changes were addressed due to certain playstyles. It wasn't "fun" being immediately unhooked and moried. Same for the fact that survivors would be unhooked and immediately back on the hook if they had no exhaustion or second chance perks to counter these tactics that killers had.

    All of the perks that people typically point out are perks that are ONLY strong in SWF, yet keep having fingers pointed at them. Same thing you hear every time any survivor perk gets released - "perk is too strong, needs to be nerfed." we saw that with Reassurance (barely used), Counterforce (barely used), Shoulder The Burden (barely used) yawn

    They increased the hook timer to compensate for the gen timer being added, if you'd like we can go back to the regular hook timer with 80 second gens. You want to talk about killer nerfs this, killer nerfs that, but patch 6.1.0 was an inherent buff towards killers, along with the gutting of maps and fog removal but again - SWF perks are too strong, when SWF isn't even the majority player base anyways.

    Notice how I mention how both sides do the things they do to win. People genrush because it's the easiest way to escape, people tunnel and slug because it's the easiest way to 4k. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking it's specifically just survivor buffs that placate killer playstyles. Both effectively do it to one another and doing this whole, Behavior nerfs killer, poor victim mentality for Killer is a pretty weird take in all honesty. Both do what they need to secure a "win" as the game is competitive by nature due to the nerfs and buffs BOTH sides get.

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 1,366

    again with the ruin was bad take lol. The perk was the mosted used perk for a reason. Because it was meta you even said it. “Only good survivors” always a cheap point since there isn’t no consensus for what a good survivor even is

    not even your average survivor player would know to tell you what an actually good survivor is, they'd maybe just say "a survivor that lasts long in chase" and that would be all

  • CautionaryMary
    CautionaryMary Member Posts: 807

    Even then, they just pressure gens and take the 3 man out when necessary. They play much differently compared to regular public players as they will actively pressure gens, take hits for one another due to precise clock callouts, consistently have long chases from these accurate callouts, and can communicate with one another about add-ons or perks that the killer runs.

    This pales in comparison to regular solo-queue players and even duos. People in public matches play much more altruistic or even selfish in some situations.

    Comp players on the other hand are much more efficient from the inherent advantages of being a comp player.

    Comparing the two is redundant as comp DBD is different from regular DBD.

  • Defnotmeghead
    Defnotmeghead Member Posts: 294

    I fail to see anything being a nerf to survivors tho:
    1. surrender option, mainly a buff since you dont have to DC to play another game.
    2. gamma adjustments, people are already doing this on PC for ages, all this does is give it to console killers, who are arguably underperforming compared to pc killers in general anyway, so not really a nerf either way. Especially since survivors also get it, and a lot of killers that currently benefit from a map being dark (dredge especially), will be less effective. But again, survivors are found slightly easier too. Not a nerf or buff either way and if any noticable effect takes place, it would affect killers more negatively than survivors
    3. Go next implementation, will depend on what it will take into account. I think it will be pattern based rather than being based on individual matches. In fact, I think one of the most important factors will be purposely missing hook skillchecks as the first survivor to die, with 4-5 gens remaining and instantly joining another game. Where people who might be the first survivor to die by purposely missing hook skillchecks at 5 gens, but instead will close the game, wont be identified. The system would need some transparancy to players, so we can actively report it when the system is applied in cases where it shouldnt have been, but that's kinda the only questionable addition in the list that could actively negatively affect normal survivor players.
    4. Crows instantly revealing survivors might sound like a nerf, but is it really? There are already very easy ways to avoid crows in general. The only personal issue I have with the crow changes, is having to wait for 3 crows before losing collision instead of 2. Because its RARE for 2 crows to appear at any time. In fact, what I would add is make the survivor exposed and cagable (like in 2v8) at 3 crows instead, so that a killer can go there, down and instantly hook them without wasting time. But not a nerf.
    5. Map offerings, the only actual nerf, but one that has been needed since 2017. It's weird that 1 survivor offering can fully cancel 1 killer offering. I do still hope they would give killers a 50% chance instead of a 20% chance, and give the ability to stack to survivors, so that survivors would need at least 3 offerings to match the chances of the killer, but that's open for interpretation later down the line and probably would need a bit more work.
    6. Spawn rules changing are both a buff and a nerf. Its easier for survivors to remain undetected for longer, and due to other spawn rules they can accurately predict where the killer spawned and sit freely on a gen in that area, but Lethal Pursuer grants more value, and killers can predict where you and your teammates spawned, leading to more consistent early chases if survivors dont avoid being detected properly.

    The rest of the points dont really matter, but I fail to see, other than map offerings, how any of this is a nerf for survivors by any means.

    And I wont be needing to buy you a drink for part 1, because point 1 and 3 are HUGE benefits for survivor games in general. It's not a buff or nerf, but more consistently playing a 4v1 rather than having 35% of my games being a 3v1 is a win. The map offering one doesnt matter except for SWF, and SWF needs a nerf anyway.

  • OmegaXII
    OmegaXII Member Posts: 2,419

    Funny how you found Slug/Tunnel takes no skill when Killer actually has to outplay Survivors in chase to do that.

    At the same time, Survivors holding M1 on Gens + Go for marathon with Sprint Burst/Lithe when Killer comes are so incredibly ‘skillful’ that they should win about every matches, especially against M1 Killers.

  • OmegaXII
    OmegaXII Member Posts: 2,419

    After reading through many of your posts, I’m curious about your opinion on my case.

    For your context I mostly play Killer with no meta perks, and go for hooks. I don’t tunnel/camp/slug unless Survivors bodyblocks.

    Now, do you believe if I told you I lost most matches when paired with Survivors who are actually on-par with my skill? Survivors who doesn’t fall for simple tricks that can go toe-to-toe with me in chase. In other words, an opponent who’s more interesting to face.

    Most matches that I won are against those who clearly isn’t as skillful as me, who only lasts 10 seconds in chase. These matches are boring that sometimes I even let them all escape.

    So what should I even do at this point?

  • XtremeDBD
    XtremeDBD Member Posts: 449

    Thats an item efficiency penalty, not a speed penalty. Why would anyone double a gen if it doesn't repair faster?

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    Those win streaks are flukes and anomalies and you know it. I wonder why I can count the amount of people who've achieved those streaks on 1 hand? Surely 95% of those matches weren't weak teams, who didn't take ANY advantage of their maps, perks, or individual pressure.

    That especially doesn't make sense with the kill rate, the "ideal 60%." All that means is, for the power role, you're getting a draw a majority of the time, no matter what. That's not very strong to me.

    Why does the BP gained even matter? We're talking about balance.

    I don't care what big name's SWF it is, especially if they're bully smurfs, but they should be beatable, and they're just not most of the time. They're in communication, making 1 person's info everyone's info, they know how to run the loops to waste a guaranteed amount of killer time, and they know what gens to do and what side of the map to lead the killer to. Your average killer is going to be weaker in that, not necessarily in skill, but in power. Most killers have absolutely no power over survivors who know what they're doing. They're just going through the motions, and how well they play will not change the outcome of the match, because of all the advantages The survivors have. So the game's not weighted to them at all.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    Exactly. People think that Pain Res 100% of the time gets max value, hits the right gen exactly when the killer needs it to, and that the killer's always able to stop the gen before it's finished, and that you're able to make the Scourge Hook in the first place. They have no idea how difficult it is to make any killer perk work, because they've either never played the role, or they played 5 matches against noobs and said, "See?" But I remember a time where killers were using peak Pop and peak Pain Res, were getting like 7-8 uses of each, and the gens still got done. That's how ridiculous this game is, and how ridiculous it is that people expect so much of the killer and so little of the survivors.

  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 3,185

    The issue here is that gen regression was required. You change out one perk for a stealth perk? Gens will go faster, giving you less value out of your stealth perk as the game is now shorter, not to mention all the stealth perks in the game are easy to call out. Aura reading? So I can watch those survivors across the map complete a gen instead of using pain resonance to delay it's completion potentially long enough that I can just go and kick them off it myself instead?

    The issue isn't that killers aren't bringing perks to help them where they're lacking (They are, most of the roster lacks gen regression), its that the line between "Does nothing" and "Overpowered" is so thin now that the one perk, with no changes, can be both at the same time. Speaking as a xeno main whose primary form of "gen slowdown" is absolute aggression in chases and getting quick downs, it's just not enough. Even throwing a regression perk on just leads to gens being done faster than I can proc regression.

  • XtremeDBD
    XtremeDBD Member Posts: 449

    Ik that, but he didn't seem to know what the red bar actually meant

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    Except it doesn't mean nothing. The power in DS isn't the stun duration (that's just extra), but in the fact the killer has to re-chase you, possibly commiting to a bad play, or else they got nothing for chasing you, downing you, and picking you up. And it's far from guaranteed to go immediately down again. That would imply that the killer could just do that in any event, in which case you're not playing well.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    I actually disagree. I think the average survivor caliber has gone way down, because there's nothing pushing them to improve at the game. Any time they face any difficulty, mommy BHVR steps in and nerfs the killer so that they can win. I think the average killer skill has gone way up, because only the most mentally resilient and elite killers will have stayed playing the role with all the nonsense it's been through, and that's why the survivors are complaining the killer's always OP. The MMR system puts the mid survivors with these really good killers, and they oftentimes lose because of that. But oftentimes even they win, because they've got so much free stuff going for them.

    I agree about the transporting to the past part. If I had the experience I had now, and went back let's say 2 years ago, I would be slaying. Killer has just lost so much in so little time, I'm frustrated that I never appreciated or never capitalized on how "good" we had it back then.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    Strawman. Nobody's asking for a 100% win rate. I have heard that we should play something else though, like Civilization.