http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Syringe situation is insane…
Alright so by now word has gotten around that Syringes are quite busted.
We already know that a lot of survivor mains insist that it is not so, but the current meta proves that they very well know it's true.
I have been playing a couple of meme builds and killers I rarely play and I have been consistently facing 1-3 Syringes in nearly every single game on top of 3-4 man SWF with no less than 8-10k hours combined.
While I enjoyed playing these matches, they devolve into a pure sweat fest. The amount of Tbagging has skyrocketed since they now know that they can afford making mistakes. The bags weren't malicious and it was surprisingly always nice 'ggs' from everybody in EGC.
I didn't bother to take more screens than this but this has been my games for the last 5 hours or so. If it's not 2 syringes it's this:
Some will now probably say "But you won in some of those screenshots". Which is true, I already stated that I enjoyed the matches and I understand that I am a god among men, a specimen performing far beyond the conception of the average man.
What I am saying tho is that if you play to win you will enter the sweat zone very quickly, and that sweat zone might require some attention.
So with this thread I'm not going to be "that killer main" and say "pls nerf", but rather ask around for your experiences and opinions on this matter.
I play survivor too. Most of my time I play without perks, even. I also love experimenting with builds, and I have put substantial time into testing Syringes, and they are really strong. But so is whatever Blight has so there is that.
The question is, is this supposed to be it? Will it stay this way? Should it stay this way?
Also to prove that I am not a hardcore killer main, Dead by Stats says I'm almost 50-50:
Comments
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We already know that a lot of survivor mains insist that it is not so, but the current meta proves that they very well know it's true.Of course syringes are strong, especially when comparing to the maximum value a survivor can get from items. If you're just out to win its either that, BMPs, or aura reading keys as your sweatiest choices. You then have a few options that can be pretty good, extra charge medkit or skill check medkit, flashlight with background player, sabotage builds in a SWF, but syringes and BMPs are the most straight forward.
While I don't like the way the game is designed, it is how the game works - the game has very clear 'superior' items/addons, and then a lot of junk. Survivors can choose S tier items and killers can choose S tier killers.
The question is, is this supposed to be it? Will it stay this way? Should it stay this way?Well what's the most extreme scenario? An S tier killer on meta build. Do the items need to stay at this level of power to make those games even? Probably, though if the syringe took more time to heal I think that would be a reasonable change.
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syringes give way too much for completely free. You are In a chase while injured? Pop a syringe, wait 24s and voila, chase has been made completely worthless for killer.
Also, since you can do whatever you want when you pop a syringe, you can pop it, hop on a gen and save 24+ seconds while removing agency from the killer because resetting would mean no doing gens, while in case of using syringes it's completely opposite.
It's a free unconditional tool for completely cancelling killer's pressure, and you can have 4 of them for a total value of 96+ seconds (which is one complete gen) if everybody does pop it on themselves.
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Its that you can use one, then start working a gen. You get the benefit of the medkit, without the slowdown from it. Pretty significant.
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so you won in all the screenshots even you brought some meme builds.
so you want killer nerfed?
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Survivors can choose S tier items and killers can choose S tier killers.
Well what's the most extreme scenario? An S tier killer on meta build. Do the items need to stay at this level of power to make those games even? Probably, though if the syringe took more time to heal I think that would be a reasonable change.
It's sort of an arms race that leads to a rather monotone situation where top survivors will bring this stuff and then only face Blight, Nurse, Billy,…
I like going against competent SWF groups, but things like map offerings combined with Syringes + Sabo or Gen Rush builds are really overkill when you're not facing any of the above mentioned killers.
Playing Trapper is already choosing hard mode, the opposition choosing easy mode with that stuff makes some matches so hilariously one-sided that you have to ask yourself why you're even trying.
There is hardly an inbetween, either you are facing potatoes or SWF that will definitely bring this stuff, because why not.
The game is largely about time management and building momentum. Syringes basically allow you to do two things at once. Repair a generator while getting passively healed, or reset a chase with no downside. A syringe vs an M1 killer is just straight up unfair since the killer can't do anything about it. Drop two pallets and hold W and you've reset the chase. Do that 4x and you've wasted so much of the killers time that there is next to no way to recover.
All of the SWF in those screenshots were nice to me and some stated that they want to face more Bubba, Pig, etc… Which is just simply not happening at those MMR levels. Because M1 killers cannot possibly compete with that stuff.
It would be braindead to believe that this warrants a nerf for killers. That would even make the problem I've mentioned worse.
Namely that top MMR survivors will only face Blight, Nurse and other busted killers.
Look I'm a killer main and even I would say delete nurse, nerf blight and at the same time adjust stuff like syringes. Take everything down a notch so that top MMR can experience a bit more variety.
Also I mentioned that I am certainly an exception. A god gamer if you will. You can't take my performance and balance around it because I am abnormal. I am a beast, ok? This has nothing to do with it.
I'm not here to call for nerfs, I am asking around for experiences and opinions. What I have in mind is breaking the stalemate that top MMR is facing. Also the screens I posted were mostly the wins, I also lost quite a few games. I think in that Bubba game I got 2 hooks, maybe 3. It was hilarious how little of a chance I had to do anything whatsoever.
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skill issue. they just get 1 free hit the entire match IF they use it at the right time
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You guys are talking about that recent Hens video, huh?
My view, syringes are not a problem. Using a med kit for self healing is already pretty weak at 24 seconds, regardless of the rarity. So if equipping an Iri add-on is the only way for med kits to be somewhat useful as self healing items, I think this is fair.
Besides, what's the point of putting strong add-ons in the bloodweb in the first place if they're not going to give you more value than the brown/yellow/green ones? There has to be some reward to dumping so much BP into a Survivor's bloodweb. Let's not forget it has a one time use as well (unlike a Killer's Iri add-on, which is always in play for the entire trial).
I'm honestly getting tired of streamers who play this game professionally potentially getting things nerfed for the rest of us because they can get "insane value" out of them. Trust me, if I made a similar pop a syringe in chase video, I promise you the video would consist of me wasting a whole bunch of syringes. Your average Survivor is not likely to get in chase value from a syringe. For most Survivors, it saves a bit of time because you can on sit a gen instead of spending that time healing ONCE per trial. Not a huge deal in my opinion.
Full disclosure, I may be slightly more of a Survivor main but a nerf to syringes wouldn't personally affect me. I've probably got around 100+ syringes on my main since I don't use items very often. I don't want to be put in a bad mood if the Killer brings Franklin's, so this opinion is coming from someone who doesn't even bring strong items to a trial (syringes or otherwise).
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Skill issue? How can it be a skill issue if I am playing at that MMR and still win with a Trapper? Come on now.
just get 1 free hit
My brother in Christ "just 1 hit" can decide a match. x4 is simply cooked. Add a map offering and the proper build on a 4man on discord and you're in for a fun time.
I understand that that one free hit is probably not worth much when you're going against a giga blight or nurse. But that opens up the question: "Do you really want to go against that giga blight or nurse every game?"
I rarely play blight. I don't want to play nurse. I main Huntress, Billy and Bubba. I love playing Trapper, Clown and Pig. But my MMR is so boosted from my Huntress matches that playing Pig feels like an exercise in masochism.
Again, the opposition will chose easy mode — you're going in knowing that, while you also know that you are choosing hard mode.
The difference here is quite crazy.
A syringe here and there, alright whatever. But lately the usage of Syringes has skyrocketed, and continues to do so as multiple content creators started addressing this as well.
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Every killer is easy mode, the only question is "how easy?". Survivor is hard mode. I've played both sides long enough to know. Your own matches showed balanced results on average, so you're just complaining that the survivors can put up a fair amount of resistance instead of BHVR handing you a free 4K.
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I'm not talking about the Hens video. I just know that it all started with the Tweet Hens put out. I don't watch Hens, but I have seen the Scott Jund video about it.
It's also not his video that made me make this thread, it's my own observation that Syringes are now everywhere.
The point of them costing more BP is kind of moot since a lot of those high MMR SWF groups are p100 — meaning they get syringes all the time, coupled with ez BP (recent 300% for example) they become so abundant that you can go for hundreds of games on end without running out.
The problem becomes much worse when you realize that you can pair the syringe with perks like "We'll make it" and "We're gonna live forever". If you can force the killer to slug you can pop a syringe on a downed survivor who gets healed in 8 seconds and receives 10 seconds of endurance.
Things can go out of hand really, really quickly if you really try. Which top MMR survivors obviously will since it's fun to do and it's absurdly strong.
If the Syringe wasn't as strong survivors would not bring them this consistently.
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Well that's a controversial opinion topped off with a bit of strawmanning.
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It's all a big butterfly effect. Go back 6-9 months or whenever it was that survivor levels stopped being shown in lobbies. P100s survivors went from being very difficult to get into a game due to lobby dodging. Now the level is hidden, you can run around with unlimited easy access to iri add ons as survivor.
This narrowed the viable killers down at a higher level to only a few, especially Blight and Billy, typically running exactly the same builds pretty much. Against this you pretty much have to run full meta, strongest stuff and SWF to have a chance. Then the non meta, M1 more casual killer players get destroyed when they do encounter this stuff. Whether that's due to the failings of the MMR, who knows? Then they start having to use full meta more and more as they keep encountering this stuff and losing.
Then the Billy/Blights with full meta encounter a more casual lobby and destroy them at 4 or 5 gens. These survivors then start getting sick of it and run full meta and then destroy the more casual killers they come across.
But you now have a large amount of players caught in a never ending circle of run full meta on either side or get more and more matches where they get absolutely annihilated.
Im old enough and played enough different games through the years where I try and go against the meta but that results in way more losses than wins. I accept that now and have done for years.
Obviously it isn't quite as black and white and you'll have people that can still do OK and I'm not at all blaming P100 survivors, it comes from both sides not wanting to lose. I just trace the moment they hid survivor levels in lobbies to when the amount of viable stuff to use in game dropped massively.
It happens in all games I've played online. People don't want to lose constantly. They either go full meta or the more casual and newer players aren't as invested and just give up altogether.
Just one big vicious, never ending circle.
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Also from what I wrote a couple of posts up, hopefully the upcoming Chaos Shuffle won't allow everyone to bring items. With the amount of blood points boosts from bribing people to play survivor in 2v8, the amount of strong items and add ons people will have and bring to compensate not being able to choose perks, it'll completely break the mode and just make it miserable, just like what happened last time.
Make everything truly random. Please!
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I am a simple man.
I see YT videos saying “this is busted”.
I then run that in every build, because I am a sheep.
Baaaaaaaa 🐑
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Well here it is, folks. The last usable iri item or add-on being targeted.
Brought to you by the same group who (successfully) got an iri killer add-on made base kit, btw.
Survivors are just not allowed to have anything functional in 2025 DbD apparently. Even if the counter to that item is checks notes injure the survivor in a shoebox sized map full of dead zones. Oh, and the add-on only works once and tells the killer that it's been used.
I can't anymore.
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Well there it is, folks. Not reading threads again. You're more of a headline guy, aren't you.
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My view, syringes are not a problem. Using a med kit for self healing is already pretty weak at 24 seconds, regardless of the rarity. So if equipping an Iri add-on is the only way for med kits to be somewhat useful as self healing items, I think this is fair.
equipping syringe is NOT the only way for medkits to be useful at all and the whole "syringe is used a lot on medkits = medkits useless without it" analogy is very, very wrong. Syringes have very high pickrate because they literally are meta. Was Blight with old Alch Ring useless without it because that addon had such a high pickrate? Absolutely not, he was literally S tier even without it.
Besides, what's the point of putting strong add-ons in the bloodweb in the first place if they're not going to give you more value than the brown/yellow/green ones? There has to be some reward to dumping so much BP into a Survivor's bloodweb. Let's not forget it has a one time use as well (unlike a Killer's Iri add-on, which is always in play for the entire trial).
this statement basically justifies overpowered iri addons on killers, like Iri Tag was on Blight. The fact that it's an iri addon doesn't mean it should give you Marvel heroes powers.
I'm honestly getting tired of streamers who play this game professionally potentially getting things nerfed for the rest of us because they can get "insane value" out of them. Trust me, if I made a similar pop a syringe in chase video, I promise you the video would consist of me wasting a whole bunch of syringes. Your average Survivor is not likely to get in chase value from a syringe. For most Survivors, it saves a bit of time because you can on sit a gen instead of spending that time healing ONCE per trial. Not a huge deal in my opinion.
PvP games are literally...supposed to be balanced around high skill levels lol. If your "average player" won't get value of something very strong, it doesn't mean that thing isn't too strong and shouldn't be nerfed.
Nurse was amongst weakest killers in pubs during her "blink attacks = basic attacks" phase in terms of killrate, does that mean Nurse shouldn't have been tweaked because of her nasty synergy with on-M1 hit perks like Starstruck and NOED? Absolutely not, she deserved that tweak. More skilled player are literally making the game more enjoyable for you, but you are ignoring that when they start striking overpowered stuff from the role you mainly play because hey, broken stuff fun!
Full disclosure, I may be slightly more of a Survivor main but a nerf to syringes wouldn't personally affect me. I've probably got around 100+ syringes on my main since I don't use items very often. I don't want to be put in a bad mood if the Killer brings Franklin's, so this opinion is coming from someone who doesn't even bring strong items to a trial (syringes or otherwise).
i won't hide it, i constantly run out of syringes and i almost always get gigantic value out of them for completely free. In a chase where i'm confident i can hold it for 24+ seconds with one health state? Pop a syringe.
Injured on death hook and about to sit on a gen? Pop a syringe and save 24s of my time by syringe passively healing me while i'm doing a gen.
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I read it, but you specifically say "you didn't want them nerfed" but also "might require some attention".
So explain that for me.
Clearly your don't think they should be buffed in any way. So explain what you think should be done. You aren't approaching this generally: "sweaty gameplay isn't fun" or something, you've specifically identified syringes. "Busted" as you say.
You say yourself that you win the games, and that your opponents even said gg at the end. Are you misinterpreting a couple crouches as BM instead of excitement that they actually pulled off the thing they're build was intended for?
These sound like good games to me. Good sports in the end game, you won, and some actual back and forth chases. You even overcame "the busted addon". So, if not a syringe nerf, then what, exactly "needs attention" here?
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Let me answer by asking a question.
Is it alright to see 2-3 Syringes almost every single game now?
The problem for me isn't that you're getting a passive heal. That is strong but not overpowered. To me the problem starts when you metagame the ######### out of syringes, which can lead to really obnoxious games like it was back when instablind flashlights were a thing.
Pack a syringe + we're gonna live forever and bring a guy who sabos hooks. The guy on the ground can be healed passively in 8 seconds and he gets 10 seconds of endurance and there is literally nothing the killer can do about this except pick up again and pray that he doesn't get blinded (that is, if he even realizes what is going on — since there is no indication that a syringe was used).
Don't get me wrong, I also want busted ######### removed from killers.
That is why I am saying that this might require some attention. So I am making this thread to get more opinions. Because it is a developing trend that, quite frankly, should be monitored.
I too play survivor. I too used syringes and they do make things a lot easier. Will a syringe singlehandedly win you your matches? Hell no, that's not the point I'm making. Just now I played another trapper match vs 2 syringes and I won at 2 gens. What I'm trying to say is that 4 min-maxing pros can team up and bully the ever living ######### out of killers for many, many games on end.
You can only do this so long until people either stop playing killer or resort to running the obligatory quad slowdown blight everyone loves so much. I do like variety and I'm telling you that playing Pig vs that stuff makes you question your life decisions.
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Is it alright to see 2-3 Syringes almost every single game now?
Why wouldn't it be?
These are one time use abilities, that consume both the add-on and the medkit, and can be interrupted by the killer. It's not a guaranteed heal. This is also one of the most telegraphed abilities in the game.
The options here are either: A) nerfing syringes, and removing survivor choices or B) actually making any other option viable.
Because currently, as far as items as a whole go, we have:
- Maps. Absolutely worthless. The only thing that's even useful is the column of light, which could be even be base kit and it wouldn't matter, which takes an add-on.
- Keys: when was the last time you saw a key? For me? Pre hatch rework like 3 years ago, and maybe once when people were playing with the no collision tech for a minute.
- Toolboxes, but people hate gen rushing already.
- Medkits. Already nerfed, and the syringe or the extra heal are the only good add-ons.
- Flashlights. The "fun" but not always "optimal strategy" option.
You're looking at it as "everyone is bringing this and it's a problem", but it seems from a standpoint of "they shouldn't be allowed to do that". There's basically only two item choices here, and the other is even more universally hated (toolboxes).
So either:
- buff other options, give people an actual choice. Since there's no universe where keys or maps are even playable except memes or challenges.
- Nerf syringes.
- Remove player agency and don't allow people to stack multiple of the same items or add-ons somehow.
Those are basically the options on the table. I'm fine with looking at keys and maps. They're just dead weight currently. Would that make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. But it's the healthiest choice.
If we're preventing stacking and interfering with player agency, then that opens a whole can of worms. Might even kill the game if I can't choose my loadout and join a random lobby where someone is already using my perk, item, or add-on.
But if even stacking these add-ons or items isn't changing the game outcome, and can be overcome by killer ability (like you say it can, and present the screenshots to prove that it can be) then maybe the answer is nothing needs to be done about syringes specifically right now.
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As the overall amount of BP earned increases, there is less hesitation to use high rarity add-ons. Survivors who are running prestige, especially those who have a surplus of items, can feel free to inject syringes.
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its same with me here killer main for 4 years ....
its not something new but now its just insane ..
the reason is almost every player now has atleast one or two p100 character and as p100 u get alot of red addones or best items
playing ghostface i did the p100 few weeks after the release and now i have from any addones atleast 2k even red ones any item atleast 500 to1k
i have almost 300 moris while im bringning mori every match
its same goes with surrvivors as p100 ace for example u would probably have buncha items and maps and why not using the best one every match ?😁
solution : syringes should be nerfed and not working on chases! or if u use the syringe then u cant touch gens for same amount of time or making passive time way more longer
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Or at the very least make them not work with perks like We'll make it and We're going to live forever.
I don't even know yet if Made for This works with this but I'd imagine it does.
If you'd combine WGLF and MfT you'd get a passive < 8 second heal and endurance on both the healed and the healer.
That's 3 health states in record time for doing nothing but pressing a button. Anyone who doesn't see a problem with this has questionable motivations at best.
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I don't think the pink syringe is particularly problematic, personally. It might have its place in a few obnoxious builds, but by and large since its indirect nerf in 6.7.0 I think it's pretty fair. Explicitly one use, consumes the entire medkit to reduce synergies, has a tell the killer could notice if they're on the ball, and can be interrupted. It's strong, but as tools go, I think fairly reasonable.
The purple syringe is much more problematic in my opinion. Short of very specific setups on very specific killers, that syringe effectively boils down to "this survivor has immunity for 5 seconds". You counter the Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe by hitting the survivor; the Styptic Agent forces you not to hit them.
Granted, it is only 5 seconds, so I don't think it's overwhelmingly busted. I just think it has a much more questionable design than its counterpart. I don't think either syringe is problematic enough to warrant action, but if and when medkits are revisited to hopefully address them scaling in a particularly boring manner, there can be some changes made to the Styptic Agent at the same time.
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It's sort of an arms race that leads to a rather monotone situation where top survivors will bring this stuff and then only face Blight, Nurse, Billy,…That's the game. Pretty much always has been (and was even more extreme when things like BMPs could autocomplete a gen).
DbD has a difficulty slider, far more than most multiplayer games. As has come up in this thread, its needed for the grind, if there weren't better items, what would be the point of BP? And without the grind, the game likely would have died off awhile ago as while it is annoying, it keeps players invested.
When/if MMR works, it is self-correcting. If a survivor is a skill of 6 and a syringe takes him to a 7, it all balances out by eventually giving him skill 7 killers (though, as BHVR themselves admit, he's now stuck always using top level items or going to have a lot of losses). Works the same for killers, camp and tunnel, run busted addons, you'll start getting SWFs.
I think MMR does work a little better than most. If I see a Wesker, for example, running the addon that starts people infected, he usually isn't that good. Hit a Wesker not running that, usually very skilled.
I'd rip this system out and burn it to the ground if I could, but it would require a complete redesign of both survivors and killers to accomplish and many people like the way the game is set up.
Playing Trapper is already choosing hard modeYes and no.
The defensive killers (Trapper, Hag, SM) should enter the game with a strategy. Implementing that strategy should be relatively easy (hex trapper, basement trapper, Iri trapper, etc). If the survivors ID the strategy and have the build to counter it quick enough, you're probably going to lose.
But in terms of the difficulty of playing? I don't think its that hard.
Then you have the things like the Hens video were he won the majority of his vids playing just M1 trapper and the reddit player who achieved a really high win rate with basement trapper (I think that was his build).
As far as I know, Killer MMR is per killer. Your Bubba might be in SWF hell, but anyone else will have their own MMR rank. Unless this is wrong/has changed.Your higher ranked killers can pull up your other killers. I don't know if the exact mechanics have been disclosed (I want to say the top five create an average that serves as a baseline and/or if you get any killer above a certain thresh hold that sets a baseline that all of your killers start at).
If it wasn't like this, every time a new killer was released it would take like a week before they began to appear in high MMR lobbies, and that obviously is not the case.
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I’ll take your “skill issue” accusation seriously if you can prove that actually play the killer side
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let’s see some of your killer gameplay so you can show us all how “easy mode” it is.
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I found it!
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You work for me, I don't work for you. 199.99 USD for my masterclass content, no refunds.
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I really don’t care if you prove it or not. I’m just here to tell you that no one will take your opinion seriously if you come on here and constantly lob these “killer is EZ mode” claims and the run away when someone calls you out on it.
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The facts have no concern for how my truth bombs make you or anyone else feel.
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