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Are survivors supposed to have fun in this game anymore?

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Comments

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 2,203

    the hide and seek can come back. you'd have to buff killers a lot and nerf swf and survivor meta perks into the ground though which won't happen

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 8,163
    edited April 4

    Why post your thoughts in a civil and mature way when you can create topic after topic spewing histrionics, using rhetoric like 'killer main,' etc?

    It's always the same users trying to rile people up and/or doomsaying.

    Personally, and to stay on topic, I have fun playing both sides - if I didn't have fun, I wouldn't play.

    It's also possible the killer is bugged or overtuned - either way, things won't change over night no matter how hard people stomp their feet.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 2,203

    what's a killer that's fun to play as and against? because usually when a killer is fun to play against they're weak and if they're fun to play as their strong

  • BalanceBothSides
    BalanceBothSides Member Posts: 30

    BHVR decided if you are a survivor you are just a prop plaything for the Ghoul Anime killer to live out his anime power fantasy with. Ehueheuheueheuhe. Enjoy being an extra in this horror movie LOL!

  • XtremeDBD
    XtremeDBD Member Posts: 449

    The first hit is easy, and catching up with power is something only good ghoul players can do, but it all comes down to resource preservation. You know that an enraged ghoul is 100% gonna hit you, so don't waste resources, circle around a tall prop so its harder to get hit, but you also don't lose a pallet. You need pallets for when you are injured, healing against him is pointless since he is essentially a hit and run killer, so don't waste your time healing. For catching up woth swings, you can actually double back when the killer leaps, most leap with only one token though so they can try ti catch up again

    For basekit changes, he needs to recieve the following: Reduction to his aim assist and locking onto unintended actions (vaults and survivors), greatly reduced enraged countdown, reduced speed when performing leaps (alleviate some frustration with insta lock hits by givingmore reaction time)

    Just simple ideas and basic counterplay so far, obviously not reliable in solo queue since most people tend to turn their brains off when gaming, but you can do this and help educate others

  • LordHeXaGoN
    LordHeXaGoN Member Posts: 273
    edited April 4

    Ive changed my mind about him, not that much u can imagine. He needs changes but not the way every survivior wants.
    Want to try ptb kaneki, take apron addon. You wont be able to down anybody, he just slowing down as intended previosly.

    Its just "mains" told that he is succ without old apron addon that gives him slide. So devs added it into base kit, and now we have the killer what end chases in seconds.

    To be continued in the next comment…

    Post edited by LordHeXaGoN on
  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 1,366

    mentality of dbd playerbase makes it impossible to make a killer that is both fun to play and fun to vs. because:

    1. if killer is fun to play, killer is not fun to vs.
    2. if killer is fun to vs., killer is usually just plain weak
  • LordHeXaGoN
    LordHeXaGoN Member Posts: 273
    edited April 4

    How surviviors see kaneki now.
    I said my thoughts earlier about him.
    And played on surviviors a lot, so i know 50/50 it feels.

    This is my final opinion/

    Just reduce his slide in a half and he slowdowns for a bit when he cancel his ability, this is the an issue most of his problems for surviviors. Auto aim, Its wierd and need fixes. (I m not talking about his new apron addon. its reducing his slide by 100% which is not what i want to be)
    I m not annoyed by his first injury, but want it to look better and his down by m1 too. For both sides.

    After ptb i thought he is weak, and asks devs to add half of old apron addon into basekit not entire addon. Instead of his "mains" who asked add full 100% slide. i knew it would be too much for him. oh god i was right.

    This is like nucliar bomb was launched onto surviviors.
    Nuclear bomb that will be fixed to not causing any problems, but its radiation will stay here forever.
    I want him to be fixed for both sides, where fun for surviviors and for killer. (Not by only one side or another)
    His kit is fine, all his problems just because old apron become fully basekit. (He is sliding too much that he can cancel without being slowed down and m1 you. This wont be an issue if he will slide a bit, not a lot as it is right now.)

    And if you think im not Tokyo Ghoul fan you re wrong.

    kakuja-kaneki.gif
  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    This is what I tried to explain with Chucky. Just because the killer slides through pallet doesn't make them a guaranteed downer. You can still predict, even react, to that as a survivor. Wesker can do it, and nobody complains about it. Why? Because he slows down so much from the slide, the survivor always has a chance to loop back around anyway. Chucky and his 110% self was the same way before his nerf. Kaneki does the exact same thing, except he has a more lenient cooldown before he gets back to max walk speed, so that the loops are at least slightly more fair when the killer uses their anti-loop ability... to anti-loop.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    And usually I'd scrutinize players who say they play Ghost Face a lot, because that usually implies they meme around a lot as killer, this face weak survivors all the time, thus say the game is killer sided. So you're kind of an anomaly, but even you can see that the game's given survivors a lot. I mean, if you faced my survivors all the time, which is literally you downing them non-stop, and then 2-3 people escape anyway, you'd be out here sounding like a full-blown killer main.

    The truth is a ton of people don't even factor in any of the survivor handouts you mentioned. They just say the killer is too fast, can see their aura, has stealth, is "OP," or something like that, and that's as far as the critique goes. I don't think they know how to loop, because the killers they're complaining about are like Wraith, Doctor, Freddy, Ghost Face, you know, the killers you don't ever see at high level, because they're M1. For them to struggle against those killers, and then say survivors lose on every patch, I don't even know what to say to them.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 991

    This is a very interesting theory. Honestly it makes a lot of sense and I could understand this being the case. It would explain some of the goofier cosmetics for survivors. Though admittedly if they truly want silliness, more than 2 emotes would be a start. But yeah, I’m in agreement with you that it’s not working. I still don’t want the game completely “balanced”, I enjoy killer being in the power role. But for survivor the game should be more fun when you lose if you’re expected to lose more than half your games by default. And be rewarded a bit more too. But thanks for sharing your theory ! I’ve never thought about it like that.

  • brewingtea
    brewingtea Member Posts: 705

    It's not about the Ghoul's power level… Every killer gets adjusted after release, so Ghoul will probably get some nerfs in the next patch.

    The problem is that survivors shouldn't be punished for not "getting gud" against a new killer. Yes, it's only Day 1, but it's FOUR TIMES A YEAR with this bs. This isn't our first patch, the learning curve is ALWAYS on us.

    We're already miserable (see: every other thread) so I think survivors are just frustrated that this one is worse than usual.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 10,719

    The relationship we have with BHVR is quite... unique. Half the community calls them survivor mains (including me), and the other half calls them killer mains (literally, how?), and constantly complain, to where they're always scrambling to make good balance changes and avoid further criticism, leading to them releasing bad balance changes, people complain, which begins the cycle again. Normally, I'd be against such casual, demanding criticism of a developer. But they clearly don't know what they're doing.

    They've created a feedback loop of bad balancing and bad matchmaking, because you have to have a good matchmaking system to know what to balance. Their MMR is screwed up and puts random people against each other, but the devs have convinced themselves that it's putting equal skilled people against each other, therefore whatever is complained about needs to be nerfed. That almost always happens to be something on the killer side, because without a consistently skilled team, the killer is always able to exploit the weak links and win, creating the illusion that killers are overpowered. It's like putting 2 survivors who are actually trying in with 2 who aren't, and the killer is actually trying. Who do you think is gonna win if the game is based on all 5 players knowing what they're doing. So the devs balance for the most casual of survivors, to where even the ones who don't know what they're doing actually have a chance to beat the good killer player, even though they're getting downed really really fast.

    Anyway, I agree with you that they need to let the new killer sit, especially in a community known for blowing things out of proportion to protect and prop up the most casual among us. To nerf the killer this soon after his release, not even giving it a week or a month so that people can develop skills with him and develop counterplay against him, it's unheard of in the gaming space, the sheer entitlement of it. And because it's survivor mains levying these complaints, the immediate conclusion is "This killer's OP. You have to disprove how he's not." I prefer the killer style of critiquing killers, where you weigh actual strengths and weaknesses, and how they play out in a match, and THEN conclude if the killer is too strong or not. I'm tired of this unquestioned balance scheme of the survivors complaining, "He too fast. He too strong. Me rage quit. Nerf him." And the devs do it, purely because of ad populum.

    The devs have got to forget about pandering to these ultra casuals, who know nothing of balance, if they're ever going to keep the more competitive players interested. That, or create DBD: Weenie Hut Jr. Edition, where every survivor wish is fulfilled, and if the killer AI is too strong they'll just nerf it.

  • francesinhalover
    francesinhalover Member Posts: 376

    where survivors ever meant to have fun? yes if they play with a team of friends on comms and they know how to play.

    You solo Q? no comms? low skill lvl? yeah no, the game wont be fun lmao

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 2,826
    edited April 4

    Don't get me wrong, I just like mastering underdogs. Ghostie, Myers, pig, slinger, dredge, and xeno are my favorites.

    I wouldn't say I meme a lot because at wherever my mmr is, it's usually a bunch of p75-p100 squads running all flashlights with looping builds 24/7, but I do typically have a rule that the last survivor gets hatch unless they were toxic. Since the mori update, I've probably mori'd 5 people, ha.

    Not my most recent video, and I was very sick, so made a few silly mistakes like hitting someone 99d, but it was an interesting swf flashlight squad.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,347

    I don't remember a time when survivors didn't complain about a new killer.

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 2,788

    I'd have loved to have seen Ghoul on the old dbd levels he seemed designed for that era of tough levels. I'm dreading the day I see Ghoul on haddonfield it has to be worse than knight.

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 3,233

    Bestie that’s so true. Ghoul boy can never outshine you btw, love you mean it.

  • Unequalmitten86
    Unequalmitten86 Member Posts: 519

    Yes! You get it. I still feel something needs to be done with the dog and hounmaster, as in if the dog has you it should be deep wound not an insta down. But as playing yeah it's annoying playing non stop against the ghoul. I have found I can loop strong but if my teammates don't do gens it's worthless. It also depends on the board, but today I noticed the ghouls just getting stronger and not allowing the counters. Plus losing every match isn't really fun.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,347
  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 3,233

    That I was, and I know somewhere a long the way knowingly or not, I was one of those select few survivors it took you much longer to catch in chase to the point you just had to go for the others so the matches aren’t thrown on your end. Love it when you call my bluff and get me, makes me a better player. People would drop really quickly though, and I would think to myself, smh one trick ponies.

    I might be some freak that escaped from the lab but every time I load in and hear that first blink , I think “finally a nurse!” , and get filled with excitement. Sure you guys are absolute tyrants, but you’re my favorite tyrant. I hear and saw you got some bugs, you doing okay? That genuinely makes me sad for you. Played kyf with a killer main buddy and guy blinked and went half body into the nostra ground. I thought I can’t run her like this, it’s not fair. I hate to see for myself and hear about through grapevines my arch nemesis and bestie in that state, truly. I wish they would fix your bugs.

    I better see you out and about at blood moon! Perfect time for a massacre. They think ghoul is nurse like, show them he’s not. That’s right bring your favorite nurse stuff. I’m all for buffing to help lower brackets, but hearing them compare ghoul to you, not a chance. Pinky promise?

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,950

    off-topic, but this sort of stuff is what makes me want to play DBD again, the community aspect

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,796

    I'm going to be playing Unknown during the blood moon, I really enjoy landing the shots tbh, I also found a lot of fun using head on vs the Ghoul with Iron will and blast mine, makes me feel I'm interacting more and sometimes its so funny seeing them leave not realising I went in a locker.

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 3,233

    I like the community too. There’s a lot of really good people in here. Sure we all have our quirks, but there is bonding if you look for it, and just treat people with respect. The ghoul stays in my book, no reason for him not to when they have bigger problems in their future like nurse, he is no nurse.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    I've felt this way for a while now that this is the "intended" way to play DBD, and my own playstyle matches it both sides. I really don't care about escaping as Survivor, but I do care about trying to get as many kills as I can as Killer (even if that's just one kill). I think that's fine and good but if so, like I said… it isn't working and it's because the game's win/loss state and reward system does not FEEL casual. It feels competitive. I'm not sure how we fix that though, because while it's not fair to expect Survs to feel like loss is the default, it's equally not fair to constantly shaft the weaker Killers in the roster - your C's and D's - by making them compete with stuff meant for Killers like Nurse and Blight.

  • eacyt
    eacyt Member Posts: 30

    Seems like the devs are making the game extremely killer sided recently, i mean the past 8 released killers have had a range attack and this kaneki one is just absolutely next level broken, he needs to be temporarily kill switched until they can figure out a full rework