http://dbd.game/killswitch
Tunneling has gotten out of control
I play DBD pretty much everyday and mostly as survivor. Not sure whats been going on lately but the past few weeks, whether its me or another survivor, the killers have just been tunneling non stop. Might just be getting unlucky and facing very sweaty killers, but its just taking the fun out of the game. Something needs to change or people will simply stop playing this game. I cant even see how tunneling is fun from the killers perspective.
Comments
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Same for genrushing. If they're going to buff anti tunnel, there better be a nerf to gen speeds coming with it at the same time. Otherwise this games just going to keep getting more and more survivor sided
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To be fair I don't see how sitting on a gen for ages or going in circles around a pallet looping like a comedy sketch is fun but survivors seem to love it.
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Actual tunneling I see very rarely. What I see very, very commonly is people “saying” the killer tunneled when they really didn’t. I find people tend to have a ridiculously broad definition of tunneling. Like if they go down twice in a row regardless of anything, they’re calling it tunneling. Like even when I play killer I intentionally don’t pay attention to hook states since I try not to tunnel and I still get called a tunneler quite often. People just throw the word around to take accountability off themselves in my experience. Similarly in line with the amount of swf groups that call “stream sniper” on basically any game they lose.
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Anti-tunnel changes are coming soon, so just hold out a little while longer. Tunneling is fun from the killer perspective because it's a quick way to win, and many have fun mostly when they win.
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I've lost count of the number of times I've watched a streamer's vod after the match ended, and I hear them complaining that I tunneled when I hooked them, then downed another survivor, hooked that other survivor, then the streamer runs straight to a gen and I down them and hook…
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I don't think it's fun at all. It makes winning easier, but it also makes winning boring.
Yeah, pretty much all of this. People throw out the term "tunneling" so often it almost has no meaning anymore.
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How is anyone remotely surprised by this? Gen defense nerfed to the point of players are now finding builds what benefit chase/finding/hooking survivors quickly. Brutal Strength, Fire Up, Bamboozle, Agitation, Forever Entwined, Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer just to name a few meanwhile the likes of Prove Thyself, Deja Vu, Commodious Toolboxes, Brand New Parts, Quick Gambit basically anything what makes gen speed quicker than base remains untouched. Matches are ending stupidly quick especially in the Blood Moon event where teams are smashing out gens in under 4 mins *during an event btw*
Gens flying, survivors being efficient means killers will resort to doing the same thing. Although "most of the time" when survivors cry "tunnel" they aren't actually being tunneled they just think they are because they are playing insanely bad and use it as a coping mechanism.
Survivors will genuinely call you a tunneler if you hook them first, find someone else, they get unhooked get healed etc, killer downs that second person hooks them, finds first survivor again with an aura perk like Nowhere to Hide I mentioned earlier, chase them down quick with catch up perks like Brutal Strength as I also mentioned earlier, downs them quick and now they are 2nd stage with 3 hooks total in just over a minute.16 -
It would be good if it could be addressed in a balanced way.
Like reward killer for not tunneling. Like whats wrong with say 10% off all gens for first hook on new survivor.
Strong killers have less problem tunneling even though they don't need to as much.
Anti tunnel perks being used offensively.
I got blocked at shack from going for someone else off hook by off the record bodyblocking. I then went after them for it and got a DS. I made sure they were dead after that.
So the anti tunnel perks made me tunnel lol
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Like reward killer for not tunneling. Like whats wrong with say 10% off all gens for first hook on new survivor
This is literally the blood gens mechanic. If you go after survivors with cans, the chase regresses the blood value they're carrying. It's literally regression.
And people are just camping and tunneling anyway.
There's no buff you can do at this point that will make people stop camping or tunneling in extreme ways, like at the start of the match. The only way is to have some kind of mechanic that stops it.
And the devs can't seem to bring themselves to do anything meaningful about it either, so I have little hope that the future anti camp and anti tunnel will be remotely effective. The current "attempts" have amounted to "stand slightly farther from hook" (AFC) and they couldn't even make DS 5 seconds again (which is the only time killers have even paused tunneling to think about options).
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They have nerfed gen speeds and perks, and the tunneling remains rampant. Some (perhaps most) love to tunnel, but that's the reality. Even when The Killer isn't faced with genrushing or any gen perk, they still tunnel! People get tunneled at five generators. People get tunnelled at all stages of the match. Further slowing down generators won't accomplish anything concerning tunneling.
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bro, all you gotta do is take decisive strike and off the record. whats the problem?
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Thank the devs for nerfing DS to 4 seconds. They should’ve kept the stun duration at 5 seconds since it was an actual threat for killers and would’ve been a staple in the survivor meta. Nowadays the killers don’t give a single fck about the 4 second stun and still tunnel you through it
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Nemesis approves.
Always loved the Rablats animations. Funny and pretty accurate actually10 -
Because the game has been balanced around it for years. Overall the killrate is around the desired 60%... but how do killers archieve it? It doesn't seem to matter.
If you can't win, you'll resort to anything. That's why there is more and more tunneling. Since once you decide to get on board, there's no need to turning back.
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Tunneling only happens because killers know how fast survivors can pop gens. They're also completely unaware of gen progress while chasing, they just assume they can't defend them since theres so many perks that make them way faster so theres no point
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I'm not really sure why people have an issue with tunneling. They want chases... tunneling means they get chases. If people improved their looping or lose line of sight then it doesn't matter how much the killer tunnels, the killer will lose. Yes the killer might get the tunneled player out but if that results in the killer getting 1 or 2 kills every match it won't make it an appealing tactic and it will make tunneling less common. There are perks to aid the survivor in lasting longer against a tunneling killer, the team needs to use this time to do gens and not spend ages hovering around the killer trying to go for a flashlight save when the killer clearly has light born. Put simply if people can't beat a tunneling killer then it's a skill issue.
Last week I used head on to stun a killer for a challenge, this really annoyed them and they literally chased me all match. By the time they hooked me twice all gens were done by the rest of the team, during egc the team saved me and it was 4 man escape. This is soloq.
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I think it's not that people want chases, but they don't want to be forced to do just one thing for the entire match, with the most likely scenario of not having the slightest chance of escaping, unless they play in a full co-ordinated SWF.
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They want chases
So you think chasing one person until they die is satisfying this?
What do you think the other 3 players are doing while over person gets chased? Gens! It's always gens.
So one person's experience is: chased, hooked, downed, repeat until dead. You didn't get to recover, you didn't get to do challenges, or anything that might be considered "well rounded gameplay".
In fact, unless you bring a "full array of anti tunnel and chase perks" it's usually blamed on you (on these forums at least) that it's somehow your fault.
If you do bring 4 anti tunnel and chase perks, people complain and usually those perks get nerfed.
Either way, the person tunneled out gets about 5k BP to show for it, and they largely have no choice in the matter. The killer wanted to win, and the first survivor's match got cut short because of it. Literally: good luck next.
For the other 3: better hope you sit on gens and can finish them all before that one person is tunneled out. Your gameplay is staring at a progress bar, and coincidentally, despite any attempts you may make to change that, it's not chases.
If you're lucky, and that's all it is is luck, you might escape about 30-40% of the time. Unlucky? Well, the game is over and your progress bar means nothing, good luck next.
So 3 out of 4 aren't being chased, and even then no one is getting the well rounded gameplay that the game rewards.
This comment is so disingenuous I'm just gonna start responding to it with crap like "killers bring regression perks then complain about the rushing, how can you use your perks if survivors don't do gens?" It's that level of tone deaf.
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I think everybody enjoyed DBD a lot more back in the days of stealth and search. I think the game would be better on both sides if aura perks on both sides were massively nerfed, or otherwise completely removed, and gens increased to 2 minutes. I don't enjoy the loopfest meme game that this once stealth horror game has become.
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but the majority of survivors openly admit to chases and looping being the only fun part of survivor and the only skillful action. With this being the case, survivors seem to like and want to be chased but when they get caught they say "ok now I don't want to be chased". But it's the only fun and skilful part for a survivor. they love being tunneled if they can loop forever to give the team time to do gens that's exactly what many survivors want, to do that 1 thing all match but they suddenly don't like it if they get hooked. Seems a bit wishy washy to me.
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The point is that if you completely remove tunnelling somehow and keep nerfing slowdown, there needs to be more than a 10s extra to generators to compensate. Anything except the strongest Killers will be extremely dependent on Survivor mistakes to have the necessary pressure (or Killers with lots of kit slowdown – hi Sadako)
That's actually relevant to:
The event gives us some idea of what happens with minimal slowdown and no anti-tunnel. If you play nicely and spread it out, it's super easy for people to get out.
PS: "chase empties the cans" is not regression, not any more than "chasing Survivor so they can't work on a gen" is now regression.
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Well, the general consensus among survivors is that chases and looping is fine in smaller doses. Getting caught and hooked is part of the game, and if it gets your team ahead, then it is a net win for you as well. But the frustration mostly comes from being forced into another chase before you have the chance to do something else, like doing some gen progress or rescuing others.
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I don't think you're right. The majority of high-MMR survivors enjoy chase and looping, especially the survivor Youtubers, who constantly say that anything that's not chase related is boring as survivor. But that's just for content. WATCHING survivor gameplay on Youtube/etc is boring if they're just sat on gens all game, but playing the game is different. Playing as killer is very much about being in constant action, and the people who enter a match as killer do so for this reason, whereas a lot of survivors want to play survivor as it's a lot more chill. But with the current state of the game, most survivors are having to enter a chase every couple minutes. Some might like it, but I personally just hate that side of things, and a lot of people I speak to, that are not high level players, think the same way.
Being chased is part of the game as survivor, but the constant chasing is just a bit much. Killers almost always enter with at least 1 or 2 aura perks, but survivor stealth perks like Distortion gets nerfed. The survivors who enjoyed the stealth element of the game back in the day are playing much less or not at all, hence the massive increase in killer queue times over the last couple years, and the almost non-existent queue times for survivors.
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As survivor I often find people will do almost anything to avoid gens, that's why I'm usually the gen worker because if I don't do them no one will because they are all trying to get chases or doing totems or something. The only time 1 is being chased with 3 on gens is when I'm killer v swf. The vast majority of the time I get tunnelled out I don't blame the killer, I blame the team mates that refuse to touch gens.
Your right it's luck based but that's due to the soloq team mates and if they are actually doing gens or not. That's a team issue not a tunnel issue. Besides, with the go next thing as rampant is it is I would have thought being tunneled out fast would be a good thing so people can get to the next match and try again asap.
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The love of looping and view of it being the only skill thing with survivor isn't restricted to content creators at all. It's insane how many matches I have that regular players say this post match as killer and survivor. I often ask why didn't they do gens and they almost always respond with "because it's boring". As survivor I do gens because soloq is awful due to so many people refusing to touch gens, I play stealth just fine, I pre run, lose line of sight when possible and I don't get tunneled anywhere near as much as most people.
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Fair enough. I'm a console player so I don't see end game chats, but I appreciate that it's not just content creators who love looping. But I would argue against the idea that it's the majority of survivors who loves looping.
In my SoloQ games as survivor, I don't seem to notice that much of a problem with other survivors doing gens. Every so often I do see that the other three survivors are doing nothing for an extended period of time, but that's kinda rare. Sometimes you do have that one survivor who is chasing the chase, so they can either take chase for themselves, or are trying to set up for a flashlight/pallet/sabotage save, but again, it's not that common in my games.
I have a group of DBD friends that I've known for years and used to SWF with, but a lot of them have dropped out of the game or at least barely play it because of the loopfest situation. We were casuals who played a lot of different games together, and DBD was just one of them, but now they have no interest in it. That's just my personal observations. Perhaps it's an MMR thing. Maybe higher-tier survivors are more likely to want to get involved in a chase, and you probably see what you do because you're probably a higher level than me. I dunno, just speculating.
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Full transparency— I don’t actually think tunneling is ever fun, regardless of its success in winning. I’m a SoloQ main so I will never tunnel in my killer games because I know what it does and how it feels. But after speaking with some people who do find it fun, it’s often because of the pressure it provides. Not many enjoy doing it for the sake of doing it, though there are outliers i’m sure. I feel most people acknowledge tunneling is very unfun, but some believe it’s a necessary evil because of the pressure it provides. I was just trying to give a somewhat logical reasoning to the OPs question, not necessarily defend it. The game would be much healthier without it for both killers and survivors.
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Sounds like survivor mains wanna win easily and can’t handle the pressure of tunneling. Try killer for once and maybe you’ll see why people tunnel. It’s called applying pressure. Y’all have perks that can counter tunneling and y’all still refuse to use them sounds like a skill issue.
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“keep greeting more survivor sided” meanwhile the new killer can hit through walls without a cooldown
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You can win without tunneling survivors you just lack skill issues to win alot of killers don’t tunnel to win and they still win your just projecting the fact you don’t have skill issues onto us lmao
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Exactly
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you just answered your own question, it's funny af interacting with the killer
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Yall qq and talk about said perks being abused and weaponized at the same time make it make sense will you?
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This is where I feel the absence of old BBQ & Chile. That unique hook BP bonus passively served as anti-direct tunneling. I and most other killers would go out of our way to get those stacks, and the aura read showed you where to go next. Everyone and everything was less efficient back then, so the killer could usually still draw or better while doing it. We've lost something fun in search of optimal play. 😔
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Complains of gen rush and admits to tunneling cause of gen rush as killer but at the same time complaining about team mates not doing gens. Jesus Christ bro.
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This is the case here, actual hardcore tunnelling is very rare. I don't see it much in my Survivor games, and I know it when I do see it. To me, Tunnelling is only actually offensive if it's CLEAR the Killer is a) going for absolutely nobody else(i.e. this is their entire strategy) , b) doing it alongside other egregious things like four-slugging from the word go or camping one person on hook, c) doing it because I'm a certain character. The same is true to me about slugging and camping, and I wish more Survivor players were like me and understood that.
What I instead see is people misunderstanding when they are being pressured for when they are being tunneled. I'm guilty of it too, it's frustrated me too. But when I'm simply doing something as normal as teleporting to TVs to check nearby gens or hooks I haven't gone to in a while to catch an unhooker as Sadako, or happen to accidentally find the same person again because they didn't hide or run away in time or lock my Dredge locker during my patrol, or they feed me stalk as Myers or Ghostface while healing under a hook, or they get caught off guard by a hatchet I lobbed at a lit up crow as Huntress and they happened to be hit before, or I'm Oni and they get hit with a Demon Strike I intended for someone else because they ran in after I hit them before… and then they yell at me in the endgame chat for tunnelling? Yeah that seems a little much.
Simply playing the game and causing pressure seems to be enough to be considered tunnelling, or slugging, or camping. And much like the AFC feature, I predict the coming changes will not stop using light tunnels, slugs, or camps for tactical pressure but will only stop the most egregious cases, and yet people will still say not enough is being done and they still exist. What they actually mean is not "I'm being griefed in an unfun way", what they mean is "The other side is pressuring me and I don't like it…" Same as when high level high tier Killer Mains complain about genrushing (I'm sorry, if you Main anyone above a B tier and you're upset about generators going too fast, that's more on you - I make an exception for low Bs and C tiers because they genuinely can't pressure fast enough most of the time).
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Yeah basically. It's not tunneling if you're healing under hook, sitting on a gen injured instead of healing or I just happen to teleport and run into you. Like I'm not trying to go for you but if you end up in front of me I'm not gonna be like, "oh shoot my bad bro, let me not take this free down, off you go". Tunneling requires intent, like I'm intentionally ignoring others for you. More often then not its coincidence or the person getting punished for bad plays or risks they take.
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Pretty much explains the big issue with the game doesn't it? Swf do gens so fast killers need to tunnel but soloq refuse to touch gens which often leads them to DC, go next or get steamrolled. Makes perfect sense being my killer matches are consistently against swf squads but when I play survivor i do soloq.
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I've played thousands of hours of killer. The fact is that like 90% of the time it just isn't necessary to win.
And yet some (not most, thankfully) killer players do it every single match and attempt to justify it with the myth that every other game is against a tough four man SWF. The reality is that most matches feature solo queue players of mixed MMR, and you can win consistently simply by spreading pressure and macro gameplay.
Though it depends on the killer you're playing, generally speaking not being able to spread pressure is a lot more of a skill issue than not being able to escape being tunneled.
I get that, and I do think a tunnel can be fun, but only in a really narrow set of circumstances; like the game is on the line (so not right off the bat with the first surv you find) and the team you're playing is really good. Like you have to get someone out right then or you're going to lose. And you're going to have to work for it. Then the pressure is mutual.
Otherwise it's just punishing some player in a game you were probably going to win anyway. And since I also play a lot of surv, I don't want to do that to people unless I have to. And since you can't know how strong your opponent is going in (at least in public matches), I never start a game with a tunnel.
And I fully recognize that you will lose a game here or there by not tunneling early, but that's okay with me. I just don't get the massive aversion people have to losing a match here or there. I'd rather lose the occasional match than just dogwalk everyone, and the rush of playing from behind is more fun than trying to eliminate the risk of losing by playing like a robot.
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First Chaos Shuffle I had someone angry I won the round as Legion accuse me of tunnelling. I was given a chase build and wanted to use it to the full extent, this Jane ran me for a good minute or so and the team still only got a gen done. She was my first hook and I was rusty at Legion, coming back from a long absence as them. I played very poorly, admittedly. I still did ok.
Then she got mad when I found her unhooking her friend, all I wanted to do was proc my Frenzy so I hit her and the friend, then left to find someone else. NOT TUNNELLING, just activating my power and leaving to let them heal. I was trying to maximize Frenzy to have fun and remember how you play Legion because again… I was coming back from an absence TO Legion. I found and hooked someone else, so clearly did not tunnel her.
Then when I was in Frenzy later, having gotten to full stacks (yay!) I found her still injured and downed her while she was hiding not even helping her team do gens (they were three down by this point and I was not doing well). I hooked her. She gave up on second hook, waited another five minutes while I finished the round, played with the excellent looper Zarina to practice M1 chase before ending the round as a 4k, and the second I enter the endgame lobby, Jane lashes into me about tunnelling, but I never once tunnelled her. All I did was use my power and try to derust, and I was still branded a tunneller for it.
She was a salty TTVer. She then also called me some pretty terrible names in front of her audience, she accused me of the most vile things imaginable. She told me she hoped I got cancer. She reported me. All because I played as Legion with a chase build and happened to win while not being that good and using my power properly. And most importantly, NOT TUNNELLING ANYONE, specifically AVOIDING doing it, all I did was hit someone off the hook with my power and LEAVE one time, and have a long chase at the start once. That is literally all I did.
That was the last time I ever played Legion.This is not an uncommon occurrence for Killer Mains and it directly leads to Killers just… not caring about Survivors' fun anymore because they're just going to be called names and branded as skill-less anyway, so why bother playing nice or simply playing as intended at all? Why not just actually do it so at least they aren't lying?
Post edited by LockerLurk on4 -
Wow, one killer thats almost completely countered by genrushing, AND you can double back on his catch up swings. Idek why i put him as a severely overtuned character, hes more beatable than Nurse. Also "keeps getting more survivor sided" is what i said, idk where you got greeting from. And don't act like Kaneki isn't about to get nerfed, the backlash hes getting is massive, hes going to be the next Chucky
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I wish I was getting your matches then because my matches is mostly swf teams, maybe 1 solo player. Huge majority of my matches seem to be 2 lots of 2 man swf and 3 man sed with a handful of 4 man swf. That's the reality of my matches. I know there are swf because they are the same teams I have faced previously. I went like 3 hours alternating between 2 different 4 man swf a few months ago. 100% not a myth lol
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The only way to stop 3-5 Gens popping back to back is to get a Survivor out of the match ASAP
And to stop that Survivors need to get as much Gen progress done
It's a vicious cycle that we and the Devs created
SO what can we and the Devs do to cut this cycle in half (Kill it)… is it Map related, Base gameplay related, Perk related, Item related???
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Tunnelling has always been an issue no matter what changes are made because nobody's managed to solve the fundamental problem with asymmetrical games: the most effective strategy is nearly always to reduce the number of players. Several strong disincentives for tunnelling have been implemented (basekit BT, a suite of strong anti-tunnelling perks including most recently Shoulder the Burden, various anticamp features since camping enables tunnelling, longer time on hook, changing or nerfing perks that benefit from tunnelling such as Pain Resonance and Pop) but none of them have moved the needle much because the best slowdown for Killers is still sacrificing a Survivor as early as possible.
Moreover I've noticed a lot of Survivors make it easier for Killers to tunnel, whether it's by not bringing anti-tunnel perks (or bringing them and using them poorly), unhooking at bad times, bad positioning or failing to respect the Killer's capacity to down you again. I don't go out of my way to tunnel when I play Killer (gross map offerings and annoying gimmick builds aside), but deciding deliberately NOT to tunnel when you could and it would benefit you is basically a courtesy to the Survivors that comes at your own expense. You can play without tunnelling, you can even win without tunnelling often enough (MMR essentially forces you to get some kills sometimes) but it's harder and more stressful if you actually want to win and you're not playing a top-tier Killer.
I don't know how you fix it. One possibility is removing Survivor collision upon unhook for x seconds or until they perform a conspicuous action, so they can't be hit or affected by powers, bodyblocked or bodyblock themselves. Another might be a weaker basekit DS to at least slow down the pace at which a Survivor can be tunnelled, though this assumes it will still happen and creates even more feature creep that newer Survivors may not understand. More modest but potentially productive solutions could be looking at strong Killer perks and making more of them deactivate when a Survivor is sacrificed like the previous iteration of Hex: Ruin, effectively trading off the Killer's advantage of eliminating a Survivor early for strong lethality or slowdown perks. It would also be worth finding ways to empower solo queue Survivors in ways co-ordinated SWFs can't exploit, since co-ordination (and knowing your teammates aren't going to give up) is one of the best ways to manage tunnelling. At the same time as any of these, weaker Killers could receive buffs to enable non-tunnelling as a more viable strategy, and possibly stronger Killers who can easily chew through anti-tunnel protections could be reined in.
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"I play DBD ever day and mostly as survivor."
I found your problem.
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How.
There's no way you should be matching with the same people back to back unless you are crossplay off
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I see it too often as survivor that a killer legit drops chase at 5 gens to tunnel a freshly unhooked survivor. As a killer, I can see how people think I am tunnelling when legit I just mixed up Claudette 1 for Claudette 2
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I don't know how, I never have cross play off. last I heard it had something to do with UK servers being a small pool of players or the MMR or the time I'm playing but whatever the reason, I'm frequently getting swf squads. I mentioned a while ago about it, these swf would DC in loading screen when they see my offering. It's not just a 1 time thing either, it's happening so often a few of the swf teams I have been matched with have asked me to dodge them because even they are fed up with going against me lol they know my ping off by heart, they know my builds everything. It's crazy. They even know it's me at the start with the offerings I use.
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That should not be possible unless they hard locked you to a regional server.
Most UK players used to go to the Europe Servers.
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I agree that tunneling has become a massive problem, even more so with kaneki. The last few days I found myself having to strictly run anti-tunnel perks because it’s been so bad. I get dead hard, off the record, and DS off every match.
Honestly I stopped playing survivor all together. The one person I know who still plays invited me but I find myself denying every request because it’s been so miserable. I stomached two matches as survivor the past week and was quickly reminded me why I stopped playing survivor.
I will say the tunneling is a lot less and the overall mood of matches is better if you play during school hours. But that’s pretty hard since jobs exist.
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