http://dbd.game/killswitch
Design Preview | The Skull Merchant
Comments
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And about Trickster Reowrk? any news?
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We'll return with more information about the Trickster when the time is right, but don't have anything to share at this time.
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There any plans to compensate people who bought SM before you gutted her entire kit for no reason?
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I'm not even a skull merchant main but judging from what I've seen this is a complete change in pace for what people who originally play skull merchant are used making the character they once love nothing like before and I do not think these changes would make people very happy but if it still drops I hope I am wrong and the player base ends up happy with these changes
Prove me wrong behavior
and keep up the good work5 -
I dont wanna sound like a sourpuss all the time, but 51% does not sound like a great starting point. I honestly wish you guys would try to spitball some other ideas for her at least two more times. Just to see how other things land before you commit to a "51% liked controllable drones so that's what we are gonna do"
I mean sure, concerns were raised, but I am kinda worried that you will just try to fix the concerns instead of going into what other aspects resonated with users who play her. For instance, one of my friends play her and she is not the active control kind of person, more like Trapper or Hag kind of player. This direction seem to take SM way out of the Trap Killer category.
Just seems to me than this new direction which you seem to describe very much confidence in right now, seems more like a the decision is made rather than a well lets see what ideas stick. And you only tried this one idea so far, that being remote control drones.
I understand you guys probably have a deadline and want to get to work on this, but please try another idea for the design preview like one more time (or two) and see if you get a better result than 51%. Pretty please.
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What if the goal ought to be 70% satisfied and less than 10% dissatisfied?
ALSO, just saying, I saw quite a few people were unsatisfied with the Survey saying it left very little room to explain why.9 -
Not gonna lie, this is a heartbreaking read.
Were there any considerations given to the assassination of her established identity, the removal of all of the skill expression and unique technical gameplay of her current version? The sentiment among Merchant's players right now is morose; we're not getting a rework we're excited for, we're counting down the days before the our favourite Killer is taken out back and shot and it feels like our pleas for a stay of execution are going unheard
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Hi again.
Thank you so much for your communication with us, I hope us skull merchant mains aren't too overbearing.
I really hope the current skill expressive parts of her current kit which were implemented to give her more depth (eg, aiming drones and optimal drone rotation) stay in some form. Same with claw traps and lock on. These should get an update for new players to understand while keeping its core identity that us SM mains have came to love.
While it is against the narrative, I am not too fond of drone crashing and a lot of other experienced players feel the same. Twins is the closest comparison to this and they have a very low pick rate and require a lot of balancing and maintaining. A lot of experienced players theorize it will be nigh impossible to balance crashing.
Overall me and other SM mains have learned how to use drones optimally with good placements, drone aiming, and optimal drone rotation. Pixel bush has a lot of videos showcasing this skillset especially in his guides if you need further reference. Hopefully these mechanics can stay so the SM mains have learned doesn't go to waste like what happened with the original Freddy.
Thanks so much.
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Whatever you do, please remember that a lot of people who currently enjoy playing her enjoy her because she is a trap-focused killer.
We have plenty of dash and skillshot based killers already. Trap-enjoyers only have Trapper and Hag to work with.
Also, please take PixelBush's exhaustive video critiquing the changes into account.
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Honestly, take all the time you need. I feel like yall are stuck on the 110/115 debate and you're trying to take both sides into consideration. One side will have to be disappointed.
I don't envy the position you're in. Trickster players are few, so they are passionate about him. That's why I feel people are being vocal about what they'd like to see with him.
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So will you be giving out refunds for the character? Since she's no longer remotely the same character I purchased? Like you took the thing I spent money on and made it something completely different so I'd like my money back.
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I don't feel like they're in that position at all.
I haven't really seen anybody super enthusiastic about the new drone design. I feel like a lot of people who thought it was a good idea are people like me, who don't play the character but thought that the concept was kind of neat.
I would not play her even if they went with that idea, I am happy with my current killer mains and her aesthetic design doesn't appeal to me.
We don't matter as much as the people who currently main her, and I have not seen any of them happy about it.
I get that they can't keep her current design, because nobody really enjoys playing against it. But that doesn't mean they need to gut her identity as a trap killer.
Edit: I just realized you're talking about Trickster, which… I mean, literally everything I said up there applies to him, as well. So I'm not going to delete this post.
Listen to people who main the character first. Please. Other people do not matter as much.
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According to all the SM players I've seen, she already was already dead after her changes.
I hate to break it to you, but you aren't going to get SM 2.0 back. It makes zero sense, especially from a publicity standpoint, for BHVR to bring back a much-maligned Killer.
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If a quarter of our players aren’t with us, we really can’t just brush that off. It’s tempting to say 'forget the vocal minority,' but 25% unhappy (or worse, angry) players is a real risk to the overall health of the community. You should seriously consider exploring alternative previews with the goal of bringing that number down below 15%. Even a small shift toward satisfaction could make a huge difference in the long-term reception and player trust.
Hey Ryan, how much does it cost BHVR to get the designers together and squeeze their brains into an alternative preview?
Not trying to waste you Guys' money now.5 -
Hate to say this but this concept as it is will just bring back chess merchant if this is brought to ptb, being able to control drones with the ability to damage survivor means you can just 3 gen
Not to mention the survey really didn't help as there was no way in communicating each of the aspects of her design as someone who very much likes playing her (especially since she's gonna be kept as a dash ability which I don't like)
Whatever her next preview they have going, it's most likely that I'm not gonna like what it's going to be, but who knows
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A bit sad to see, I enjoyed the scanlines honestly. Even if I didn't "properly" use the drone, it was fun using them like 'land mines' that survivors would bump into. A bit scared for Trickster now, but I hope w/e you guys cook is worth it… Good luck.
o76 -
This is very condescending of you to say that skull merchant 2.0 is never coming back
Skull merchant should at least keep her 2.0 aspect not delete them entirely, why can't you understand that
Why should only the majority be the only people who decides skull merchants fate, the people who enjoy playing her should get a say in all this too
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2.0? You mean the scan line version? The reason she was nerfed was purely because of her kill rate and BHVRs inability to hire skilled data scientists who can interpret simple statistics. She was no more complained about than other "annoying" killers at the time.
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The only redeemable part are the last 2 points. i fear it will be like that should this go live
idk about the rest, it takes away her drone-scan-doing-something-dangerous-gimmick she has and i find that cool and unique with her
bet. its liked because people hate her current claw-trap mechanic, sure its new but uuuuuh
My suggestion? inbed her claw-trap mechanic with this new rework thing (and not being able to down survivors) and we got a deal
I pray her global tracking mechanic also works on stationary targets
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When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?
It makes little sense for BHVR to bring back a Killer that was so, nearly, universally reviled that they dumpstered her rather than try to rework her previous iteration.
Makes more sense to try to find a new way to make her work. If you want her to focus on traps, sure, that's good feedback and I'm sure they are considering that aspect. Don't envy them, because Trap Killers are usually non-interactive and are tricky to balance fun with strength. Regardless, that is valuable feedback even if I disagree with it.
Insisting that she be reverted is not good feedback. They are not going to do that.
-2 -
Look, I mean, let's not be disingenuous.
I think even her staunchest defenders would admit that she has a pretty bad reputation, and the community complained about her constantly.
That's not really the thing up for debate here and it's confusing that you're even trying to make it a point.
-1 -
"When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?"
They've done it before. Sadako and Billy have both had problematic reworks wound back because their mains yelled about it. Sadako 3.0 is basically a rebuild of her original version with a lot of the problems ironed out, and Billy mains were overjoyed with Billy going back to a non-Overheat state.
Why do Sadako and Billy mains get to have what they want but not us?
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Billy is close but not the same. He also had to wait multiple years for the landscape of DBD to shift drastically.
Not sure when Sadako got her latest (?) rework. Don't play much anymore, probably haven't seen it.
Why do they get what they want? Well, Billy wasn't a problematic Killer before they publicly executed him. He had overtuned addons, but pretty much every Killer did at that point in time. His KR was fine and aside from Insta-Saw, people liked him. There wasn't a justification.
Sadako had one particular playstyle that was an issue. She also felt fairly weak outside of it. So BHVR, naturally, completely botched the rework.
SM, on the other hand, ushered in the single most hated meta in the entire history of DBD. When you think about Eruption Overbrine, you think SM. When you think of a Killer defending a 3-gen like it's their first-born child, you think SM. Even outside of that, she was a horrible Killer to face because her Drones forced more of the same, "I place power, leave loop or die" that we had going for years at that point. SM 1.0 wasn't even strong outside of gens, imo.
Even after her rework, she was STILL hated because they accentuated that playstyle even more AND turbo-bloated her kit. She managed to achieve over a 70% KR and was reviled at all levels of play.
TLDR; SM has a FAR worse rep than Billy or Sadako ever did. Billy was well-liked, Sadako had her haters, and the community at large wanted SM gone. Returning Sadako or Billy to their former selves, with fixes, was generally accepted since they had specific issues. Returning SM to her previous state will not be accepted due to her reputation being in tatters, her unengaging gameplay loop and the resulting public backlash.
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I'm not saying that they should be reverted and be kept as is, I'm saying keep aspect that I and others like about skull merchant in her rework and not go with this current preview that they have in mind and try a different approach
which brings in to your question about which killer was brought back to the previous version was sadako
Bhvr brought back Sadako's first design when she was reworked last year, they brought back what people liked about her while incorporating new aspects of her condemn mechanic
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That makes no sense to say that because she's hate that means she needs to be rework
Skull merchant 2.0 was nowhere close to being problematic as she once was before to unlike her 1.0 variant, but she did have issues that needed adjustment
For all we know, people could hate on this 3.0 variant and still dc and complain against her whether it's a success of a rework or a complete catastrophic failure
Her reputation will forever be this hated
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I don't get how skull merchant 2.0 can be so despised but there's no commotion over Clown, who is basically the same thing.
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The same thing but objectively worse, mind, because he lacks nearly as much counterplay, the gameplay involved is much less nuanced/interactive, and his power has a much lower skill ceiling.
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You must admit that you are pretty biased in this whole opinion of SM thing.
It is important that we get it right this time because I doubt they will continue to invest resources in what is, unfortunately, a failed concept.
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The things you like are oft the things the community at large seemed to hate.
I do not know how to bridge the gap between two sides unwilling to move.
-1 -
Absolutely she did in her scan line version, She also had problematic parts to her kit. However where is the consistency?
When you look at the other "annoying" killers and how they were handled:
- Chucky got nerfed then rebuffed
- Dracula got buffs
- HM got huge buffs
- Xeno had their changes instantly reverted and overall they were buffed
- Knight got buffed
- Twins received mild nerfs
- Blight received mild nerfs
- Legion got buffed
All these killers have had questionably bad rep over DBD. Why does only Merchant receive an absolute nuking and then their mains are told to go ######### themselves with a cactus by having their character deleted?
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There's definitely been some discussion on Clown over the years. He's never been a particularly popular Killer to face.
Main thing is that Clown is easy to understand, easier to counter and weaker than SM was.
-7 -
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard or met a single person who enjoys playing against Clown.
The main difference is that Clown doesn't have the leftover baggage from Chess Merchant hanging over him.
Clown also doesn't have the lockon pipping mechanic. Once you get a pip towards a tracking beacon put on you, there's no way to get it off without getting put in the dying state or just forcing it yourself by intentionally running into a beam. That's a pretty uniquely annoying aspect of playing against Skully.
Clown doesn't have a stealth component to his kit, either. I think a lot of people really hate getting injured in a way that feels cheap/unfair. This is why I think so much of the Ghoul feedback at the moment is on his ability to get free and basically unavoidable injuries, as opposed to what I think is his bigger problem that he still has pretty great chase potential and map presence on top of getting super free injuries, which is something Plague and Legion don't have
Skully's stealth isn't the main component of her kit, but she is unique in that she has no pre-warning or stalking mechanic. She just walks up on you extremely quietly and then M1s you. It's definitely the most obnoxious part of playing against her to me.
Skull Merchant's actual power in the drones is not really that bad to play against, at least I think.
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According to Chucky mains, he got dumpstered for a while.
Can't speak for HM or Dracula as they are after my time.
Knight got nerfed with his rework. His strongest, and most unhealthy, strategy was removed.
They tried a Twins rework and gave up. That is what awaits SM if we do not get this right.
Blight got some addon nerfs after YEARS of complaints. Nobody knows why they don't nerf Nurse and/or Blight.
Legion got dumpstered worse than SM for THREE YEARS before they changed him at all. Literally sat untouched for three years.
The only one that has had close to SM's rep is probably Legion.
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I also think that Clown is rather intuitive to understand how to play against.
A lot of SM's 2.0 kit was not intuitive. Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.
Just a lot of bloat on her kit.
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"Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.
Just a lot of bloat on her kit."
… I agree! But the scanline mechanic itself wasn't a problem; it was the "random bullshit go!" approach in terms of the payoff for scanlines. They could have streamlined her power significantly, cut out the Haste and Hinder and given her some new method of lethality against clawtrapped Survs, but kept the scan-and-stack + clawtrap system the same and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've been pressuring BHVR for that in my videos for the past 18 months!
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PixelBush: The SM hero we need but don't deserve :-)
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I don't think so.
Having a huge AoE scanning radius is not going to be a good design. It will either be too weak, which is what we have currently, or it will be too strong, which is what we used to have. Essentially, Legion-syndrome.
It seems to me that BHVR can make nobody happy. SM will not be happy until they get what they want and the community at-large is unlikely to accept that.
Hopefully, they give it one last shot and stop wasting resources on another failed Killer design. Sucks to say, but it is the truth.
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Billy as able to be buffed because the maps were changed so much that he was no problematic on them. Remember that the old maps were filled with smooth vertical walls at 90 degree angles, and pretty much everything was 90 degree angles that were super easy to curve around. The maps have changed A LOT since then. Maps are now filled with irregularly shaped loops, that are purposely designed to stop dash killers from getting guaranteed hits.
Billy's rework reverse had nothing to do with killer complaints.
Sadako had a partial rework reversal, because her rework was super problematic. Sadako having global condemned meant that if a survivor didn't pick up a tape early, then Sadako would spam teleports, and the survivors would gain a bunch of condemned stacks, and not have any TVs to grab a tape from, and therefore would just run around in a panic, because they couldn't get rid of their condemned stacks.
Sadako's rework reverse had nothing to do with killer complaints.
-2 -
It was never too strong. People just didn't bother to learn how to play against it. a common issue of survivor laziness.
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I really respect this initiative.
I hope those who are presently invested in the game's future are taking advantage of this opportunity to have an honest, constructive conversation about the potential direction of a DLC rework during the early stages of a design process.
This is a rare chance to save the community and the developers from further heartache and, if successful, could set a precedent for addressing complex design challenges in the future.
Best of luck to all involved and effected!-1 -
In this rework plan, drones do not support camping, slugging, and 3gen? That's impossible. If there is an ability to see and attack survivors at long distances, players will use it. However, if they say they will not support it, they will probably make it into a system like that. Perhaps the drone's attack can injure but not knock down, and it will put them in a deep wound state. That's probably how it is. At least, it doesn't seem strong. It would be more reasonable to use Kaneki equipped with a search perk than to use such a killer.
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Okay so I wanted to get a pulse reading from the Community on this, so I posted Ryan's Post to Reddit to see what they think:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1jwu9v6/skull_merchant_preview_results_are_in_51_are/Surprising me is how many are fine with a 51% approval rating start and they don't really seem to care that 26% disapprove.
However many do say they found the Survey very hard to properly express why they think a thing works and don't.
There also is a lot of sentiment of basically saying "screw what the Skullmerchant Mains think", which is actually worrying me seems people are much more interested in getting rid of the old SM and getting a new, the details of which don't matter much.I do hope you guys check it out and read what people have to say, cause its interesting.
My position is still, Try to make another Alternative Preview again and see how it is received.
Hell, get all the SM mains in a room and make them compromise on a design they all agree on and lets see that.
Honestly, I just think its too early to commit to the remote control drone idea, we can always make that idea into another Killer in the future if you wish. Hey, if you need people to do it for you, I don't got a job rn.5 -
Leaving aside the 21% who are neutral, the 25% who are against the rework will not be satisfied with the reworked Skull Merchant. Because their playstyle is different. But what about the 51% who are in favor? They agree with the proposal only on paper, but what if they actually operate it and it is weaker than they expected? The rush speed is too slow, the operating time is too short... The worst case scenario is that the existing Skull Merchant mains are wiped out, the new Skull Merchant is laughed at by the supporters, and there are just more stupid killers. No one will be happy. Please keep that in mind when making adjustments.
......That's what I wanted to say. However, I tried to implement a function that allows you to see the Skull Merchant when you hack the drone. I said I would make it a ranged attack killer that doesn't support camping, slugging, or 3gen. I think this rework is too risky.
Sorry for the Google translation
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Reddit is an echo chamber of morons that don't know what they are talking about.
That 51% statistic is worthless because it lacks one key context: ANYTHING would have been met with majority (no matter how small of a majority it was) approval because it wasn't Skull Merchant anymore. They aren't interested in making her healthy or viable or even usable. They just want her gone. And the fact BHVR is bending so far backwards for these people is honestly disgusting.
Also, the fact people keep bringing up Sadako as being fine now is laughable. She's in a pretty terrible state at the moment, even ignoring that her Demanifest power is STILL bugged and not working properly.
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70% KR says otherwise.
-5 -
Skull Merchant was an actual S-tier killer, because she had like a 70% kill rate. In actual public games, she was the most S-tier in the entire game.
Compare this to the fake tier lists that people like to make, based on the top 0.0001% of the players, that isn't relevant at all to public DBD games. Those tier lists are fake, because discussing how killers perform when 7,000+ hour players play 7,000+ hour players in custom games, isn't relevant at all to public DBD games, and like 99.9999% of the players are playing public games.
-13 -
Using killrates in the big 2025 is crazy work.
How is anyone supposed to reach any logical conclusion when yall unironically think shes stronger than Nurse 😭
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Let's not pretend you wouldn't be freaking out if SM had a 30% KR. Clearly, KR's mean something, but only until they contradict your point.
To the rest of your comment:
In a vacuum? No, she is not.
Taking into consideration her ease of use versus her power ratio, plus adding in her diabolical bloat? Well, now you start getting somewhere.
-3 -
Nah it could be 2% and I wouldn't. Those stats mean literally nothing when it comes to character viability. A character could have a 90% killrate and it wouldn't mean anything strength-wise.
Also she was top C pre nerfs.
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To be fair, if they just wanted her gone, they'd leave her as she is now. And I doubt they really want any killers gone, because they don't make money that way.
I honestly feel for those who main(ed) her and invested a ton of time mastering her kit, but the thing some people seem unwilling to see is how universally and apocalyptically despised she was/is. You simply can't say "well, they did this for X killer, why won't they do it for SM?" as if everything else is equal. SM is not Billy, SM is not Onryo. SM is her own whole own phenomenon.
Skull Merchant has been an historically and singularly reviled killer, on a level not comparable to any other I can recall. Why that is the case is may not be wholly rational, but it's largely irrelevant. It just is what it is.
And I think that logically speaking, keeping her as she was or reverting her makes a lot less business sense. The fact of the matter is that the SM main community is tiny compared to the community at large, and this is a business above all else. They not going to bend over backwards to placate the like five Skull Merchant mains, even if one of them is outspoken and has a notable YT channel.
Dead killers don't make money, and they've already got at least one killer who is effectively dead (Twins) and a few who are close to it, and I am guessing the don't want more. This is a salvage operation, and wholesale change was the only real path forward to a future with her in it.
And if nothing else, I'm actually encouraged that they're willing to essentially remake a killer. I think their hesitation to do so has doomed other killers. And she may yet be doomed, but I applaud the effort if not the details.
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