Tunneling has gotten out of control

Dev team need to read this post I think, and then contextualize it within this user's post history.

Player who has a history of being doom-and-gloom that any change will be anti-killer, and for advocating for killer players to the point of being banned for [to public speculation] accidentally taking it too far with encouraging unintended gameplay, seen here citing the so-called "anti-slug part 1" as proof that the devs intend for slugging to stay as a mechanic. What does that mean for your design decisions?

I was talking about that time earlier this year when you got banned, very coincidentally just after you said your new strat was "don't chase survivors, just guard gens"

feel free to carefully reread and consider each word of what I said; I've already explained why your history is relevant to the post

You can only stay hidden for so long realistically. The killer will eventually find you if they're not blind. Which leave you the option of preemptively running which is just holding W. Yes you can try to lose line of sight but again if the killer is halfway decent they'll find you. Or looping. Even if by some miracle you don't get found then every killer will complain that survivors are playing in a boring way.

My point was that you can hide, loop, or hold W. Or obviously you can use the three in some combination. Either way each one will be complained about.

The wrong question is always asked about this problem.

The right question. Why do only campers and tunnelers find the role of the killer attractive? If such killers are becoming more numerous with each patch, then this clearly suggests some thoughts. Well, everything that is being done first of all forces us to remove the DBD of the 12 hook killers, since such killers are not capable of playing in the current balance.

If we wanted to make the game better, then maybe we should think about how to increase the population of 12 hook killers?

First of all, it is worth understanding that it will be difficult for you to come to an agreement with the community of killers that are currently playing. You literally have a different value system. Each side perceives the arguments of the other side as some kind of farce. We literally do not want to make an equal compromise. Only to snatch more privileges for ourselves.

This community of Killers feels unfairly treated and somewhat offended. In the eyes of the killer, most survivors look like a crowd with torches, organizing another witch hunt. While for the survivors, it is some kind of monster that enjoys their suffering, literally dreaming of how to ruin their lives.

If you look a little deeper. We all want the same thing. We just have different approaches to achieving this goal.

If you do not want to increase the population of 12 hook killers, then the only thing you can negotiate with the current killer community is the issue of death.

How would you like to die so that you will be pleased?

Let's admit, no matter how much the community condemns the killing of survivors. The killer wants to kill. To my deepest regret, the concept of 12 hooks is not viable as a strategy if you want to win. If we can not kill you in a fun gameplay for survivors, then the killers will have to find their own ways to kill you. After all, the main thing for the killers is murder, so we must find ways to come to an agreement on this issue.

There is another option, though.
Destroy the old killer community (nerfs) and then replace it with new killers (FNAF?), who will be raised for the entertainment of the surviving side. Perhaps the survivors should do this instead of destroying another hydra, whose head will grow back.

Tunneling has a counter, it's called looping, windows, pallets, jungle gyms - the amount of ez they have added to this game for survivors is crazy, but I don't blame them. You guys keep getting on and threatening to leave and they get scared for some reason. I'd prefer players that can't handle tunneling to try a different game.

Because tunneling IS a strategy. Tournament players use it. And camping too. Gens are done in 60 seconds now, everything has to be on the table for killers.. Trying to make the game ezmode for people who can't counter a strategy with another strategy is not REMOTELY the same as "no, YOU quit the game because you aren't allowed to use tunneling anymore because it makes the game hard 4 me."

It's time for people to get better in place of using nerfing as a "strategy" because Behavior is afraid to lose players who demand participation trophies. If you don't want to get better given the countless advantages (pallets and windows around every corner, basecamp BT, basecamp hook facecamp timer, no deadends anymore, survivors win the 8 generator kicks, survivors move immediately after knockdown instead of getting reset to killers' feet) then why are you playing? Why does Behavior have to keep giving you help instead of providing you opportunities to train and get better?

Yes and running Windows of Opp and being able to w-key across the entire map isn't super easy either lol. Given the numerous opportunities to win and dodge for survivors combined with now lightning fast gens? Sorry, camping and tunneling need to stay and you guys need to figure out how to better utilize all the gifts this game maker has given you. It's time for YOU to skill up instead.

If you want to remove tunneling even more than it's already been removed, then we need to eliminate 30%+ of the pallets and windows that are always there for your escape. I'd love to see skilled survivors again, instead of fools that bag at the gate after theyve just run from corner to corner while gens are done in a few mins, and taunt as if they have skill lololol

There'd be a lot less complaining about tunneling if those "countless advantages" made tunneling less effective.  But they don't, and that's why Killers continue to tunnel.

Thankfully I don't get tunneled a whole lot, but it's still annoying af when I do.  Whenever I run the anti-tunnel perks, guess what?  They actually encourage the Killer to tunnel me rather than discourage them.  Now why do you think that is?

I don't think anyone has a right to tell Survivors they need to "get gud" against tunneling when they only play Killer. I've had some matches where I've been tunneled but managed to run the Killer long enough for the teammates to complete the gens and escape, but I sure as hell didn't enjoy them. It's like having a fly buzzing around your ears, and you can't just swat it with a fly swatter.

Slugging is even more annoying than tunneling because it removes player agency.  You can't do anything other than crawl around, and there are even fewer defenses against slugging than there are against tunneling.

Oh yeah, stealth is my preferred way to play as well, but as you admitted earlier, it fails sometimes.

Another thing that people fail to notice (and I can see why), is that we do recognize that there's a time and a place to tunnel and/or slug.  Towards the endgame, yes, it makes sense to use that as a strategy.  But many Killers have pushed those strats beyond the acceptable level, doing so at five gens against the first person they found.  Or slugging from the very start and leaving them to bleed out, with no intention of hooking anyone.  The last one in particular there is no justification for, ever.

I just want to break this vicious circle and tell you how things are on the other side. You are trying to impose a religion of fun on killers, when in the nature of killers the desire to kill. We have little choice but to negotiate with those killers who play the game (taking into account the feelings of the killers and then the killers will take into account the feelings of the survivors), or destroy this community of killers and replace it with one more convenient for you (raising new killers). Otherwise, we will all just continue to suffer in this long-term hell with no hope of salvation.

Personally, I would go back to 2018. I was much freer and happier there.

I would not be so categorical. Perhaps because some games look like this. It does not dispose to mercy. I have many of these in my collection (I love strong trophies). You just automatically learn to strike preemptively, because any weakness will cost you the game.

This screenshot is just a reference logic puzzle.

Which of us is right? Which of us is more toxic?

I assure you, I am a camper at the tunnel who knows no mercy.

As I said, there are times when it makes sense to tunnel/slug/camp.  I personally hate getting teammates with those kinds of builds, because they're not there to escape/win.  They don't care about doing gens.  So why would they get pissed when they die?  I honestly don't understand that logic.

I want to ask you a question. Maybe it will seem stupid to you. Maybe you will ignore me and you will be right. I am absolutely serious because this question worries me very much.

Why, when I play as a survivor, do I see killers like myself?

I play as a survivor. Take the same period with the release of the Ghoul DLC. I met an army of Blight and Wesker with 4 slowdown perks. Various variations of Ghoul tunneling. Singularity with a slug build that is effective even after the nerf of Knock Out. Onryō that used the flaw in cartridges and canisters in bloody mode. I felt all the delights of tunneling and slug 3 survivors to prevent hatch.

All these killers had one thing in common. They wanted to kill and make 4 kills by any means necessary to achieve their goal.

When I come here to the forum to read opinions. I see a lot of people with a similar mindset to yours. I have a very strong dissonance. Where words diverge from actions. I even find it difficult to explain it clearly.

The first conclusion that I make is that something is very wrong with DBD.

The second conclusion that comes to me is that you are in the numerical minority and live mainly on the forum. While people like me play the game, and do not talk on the forum.

The third conclusion that I draw. If the truth were on your side. As survivors, I would play against someone like you. The current situation is such that I play against my own kind. You will forgive me very much, but I do not believe that if the killers were a real force (except for 3-4 chosen ones) as you say. They would play as if their lives depended on it.

I understand that killers are usually demonized in the DBD community, but they are ordinary people with whom you can negotiate. They are engaged in camping and tunneling out of necessity, and not malicious intent.

This is the paradox that torments me.

For the record, I don't enjoy hurting survivors. I don't make survivors suffer more than necessary. I just want to win and not feel pain myself. I honestly try to play 12 hooks sometimes, but all the results give me unsatisfactory results.

In my experience, even such teams are capable of making generators. One survivor is always somewhere there on the generator. Sometimes I wonder how they managed to make so many generators when they were literally trying to hit you with light from all sides. Plus, usually such teams have very strong mancers who are able to run calmly for 3-4 minutes while their comrades suffer from the slug.

I would say that their tactics also consist of dominating morally. They hit the morale stat like in some strategy.

If you're interested in my take on the time period, I'd say that camping switched to 3 generators. Killers mostly didn't care what the survivors were doing. The killer would give a hook to the survivor and continue patrolling the 3 generators. In a sense, camping and tunneling was eradicated for the survivors by moving to the terrain area.

Whether that was good or bad, I don't know, but the gameplay was really dull enough to play it on a regular basis. I just tried it out for the sake of experimentation to get a feel for things. The most important thing there was defending the terrain.

Thanks for answering.

"Tunneling" is the killer doing his objective (killing survivors).

Do you want them to stand still?

Why would they stand still when they are supposed to chase survivors and defend gens?

That's really like comparing apples to oranges. Survivors doing generators is the killer failing to do their job. A killer tunneling a survivor means that one survivor had no ability to play the game whereas the killer can still play the game.

Taking chase as Survivor is as much part of the game as a Killer defending their generators. Getting chased does not mean "you have no ability to play the game". Heck! You're in the midst of the action!

The Killer's objective is to KILL Survivors. The Survivor's objective is to escape. As long as you're doing this within the boundaries BHVR has put up, you shouldn't have to listen to what anyone has to say. And yes, including your opponents. Because the rules they put up are most likely there to make it easier for them, and more difficult for you.