DBD has lost 27% of players and it's falling.
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The frozen loading screen has first been an issue in mid of 2017 if I remember correctly
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Honestly, if you are going to quit this game because of Legion, its best you leave. Legion is the easiest killer to play against. He’s slow, his power gives you a sprint burst to the nearest pallet, and he has zero map pressure. I see people waste so much time healing after getting hit. Stop healing. Youre wasting time.
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@Wicked_Django People don't like Legion because he's annoying to play against, not because they think he's hard to beat.
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Just want to point out that it's currently F2P and the numbers are still dropping.
Maybe it'll pick up a bit tomorrow, but still. Sad. And this is a clear effort to bring up some numbers and get them in the green for a month. (which would still be in the red for the past few months)
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Not surprised, this game is in one of the worst states it's ever been in. Barely enjoyable anymore.
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Last Year could've been a good game but meh. Maybe it's just me but it's too much of a bully simulator. I wonder why no one copycated DBD's mechanic. It's not like anyone can copyright gameplay
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@SmokePotion, I emailed the person behind SteamCharts this morning, because the API had not updated any information since 7am on Wednesday, April 3rd. The time that Steam went offline for tech work.
It's updating fine now, so I assume the person running SteamCharts fixed whatever was wrong. However, the 24-hour peak is off for today (Friday). I was watching the numbers through the "In-Game" numbers from the Community Hub game page, and it peaked at slightly over 26k this afternoon, then went down. DbD tends to peak between 10am-1pm east coast time every day.
But a 26k peak for a free weekend is still a clear sign of trouble. If there isn't a significant jump tomorrow or Sunday, I'd say Behavior has a real cause to worry. At that point, neither the Plague DLC, the Ash DLC, nor a free-weekend gave them even a temporary player base recovery.
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It's normal. once ppl start playing, they become competitive.
new players will kept turn into competitive players, rest will rage quit/ stopped playing
High rank there is no variety, because devs refused to buff other killers and failed to see why killers like trapper, pig is still bad
it took them almost 1.5 years just to buff Wraith, Hag
now we need to wait 1.5 years for them to buff Leatherface, Freddy
and now we have to wait 1.5 years for rework legion,
when Dedicated server finally comes. a declined of 30% more players is expected, because MLGA will end up dead, and ppl can no longer block killers they dont like cuz they are too good
Devs did absolutely nothing to stop MLGA, and ppl still abuse it till this day since its not bannable
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Good good as a Killer = Blocked
Playing as Legion = Blocked
Playing as Nurse - Blocked
DBD in a nutshell
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pff and you can still lobby dodge right? To the point that I will get black screen bug and have to reboot the game after getting dodged for 10 times in a row
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Just imagine your experience as a new player in 2019.
You start a game as survivor, first it sucks but after you figure out how to play the game and get better you realize that you basically press m1 for 4min with some hide and chase with the killer.
If you start playing as killer you either have fun, because you can dictate the action or are frustrated because you lack of counterplay option.
The first time you run into a good SWF group you ask them, how did they know where you are ect. because since then you could play you killer fantasy. What voice? Isn't that cheating?
Every killer player was at that point if they never played in a SWF.
The actual matchmaking is frustrating to play with on both sides.
You can be the gen-jokey and depip.
You can occupy the killer the entire game and depip.
As killer you can 4k and depip.
You just feel robbed, until you realize that ranking up don't give you any rewards besides sweatier matches and longer queue times.
If you still want to play this game as a new player you walk into the bloodweb.
Over the time we got so many new perks that the grind has become insane. You can level up to 50 without getting all native perks at tier 3 even if you go for them every time they appear.
So you end up level 50 with a lot of tier 1 and 2 Perks and a bunch of add-ons, items and offering, half of them are of no use for you and your playstyle.
Besides KYF there are no option other than grind to try out new playstyles and perk combination so you get stuck in a repetitive grind with no clear sign that your effort payoff in the end.
TLDR: the game has become hostile and difficult for new players to get into and veteran players don't have a lot to do.
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@Kilmeran Summon the 2x BP event. Events are what bring the big numbers.
December had a week of 2x BP and numbers blew up.
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i never dodge lobbies since i know the pain of waiting as SWF. if i know im going to lose i try to farm as much points as possible
i even made threads proposing 15 min time out for ppl who dodge lobbies
People block me cuz im good good as killer, or when i try to play Nurse/ Legion and they automatically think im legion/ nurse main since i play all killers
Judging from your response u are one of those MLGA abusers i assume?
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Agreed. I actualy had a friend ask if I wanted him to buy the game so he could play with me. I told him ."Nah, i love the game, but it's not in a good spot right now I'll let you know when the dev's fix things."
I didn't want him to deal with d/cs on first death, and the host of other problems.
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@Bbbrian2013 That's about the only trick they have left in the hat. The questions, though, are:
1) Do enough of those people buy any missing DLCs or buy Auric Cells?
2) Do they stick around after the event?
If they don't, then it's not even a band-aid fix because, while folks might get faster lobbies with the Event player count boost, it did nothing to improve the overall health of the game and then we're back to where we were.
It's happening now. Today's peak so far is 31k. It's a bump, let's call a spade a spade. But come Monday or Tuesday, what will the non-free-weekend numbers look like again? If Behavior isn't converting the free-weekend or Bloodpoint Event bumps, then it's an issue.
So, we'll see in a couple of days.
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these free-weekends and bp events aren't bandaids, they are propaganda. They are there for people who like to check statistics, like steam charts, to trick them into thinking the game is in a healthy state. So they will keep buying DLC.
If you think about it, it's hard to actually tell the numbers on steam charts because of how often DBD does this. We should take past numbers with a grain of salt, as they are padded with false numbers from free weekends ect.
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@SmokePotion That's why I said, we have to not look at the free-weekend and Bloodpoint Event bumps just on their own, but watch to see what the numbers look like during the work week afterward.
Did Behavior convert those returning players (BP Events) or new players (Free-Weekends) into regular players? If not, then those weekend numbers mean nothing.
Monday and Tuesday will tell more.
For the record, despite my criticisms here, I love Dead by Daylight. I want it to grow and stick around with full resource support for years to come. I got gifted Legion last night, then went ahead and purchased Plague and Ash to complete the current collection. I want Behavior to get their metaphorical heads out of their asses.
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I play Final Fantasy 14 with some people, and they asked about DbD. As I was talking to them, I realized how much worse the grind is in this asymmetrical horror game than it is in the MMORPG with a monthly subscription fee. I told them that after 400+ hours, I still didn't have access to many of the builds I'd like to do on the killer side. It was at that point I realized how hard the devs have made it to honestly convince people who are interested in this game to spend $10-20 on it. That's insane right? That the grind is so excessive, that the barrier of entry to fun builds is so steep, along with the bugs, d/c's, etc., that people don't want to spend that amount of money on a game they can sink this amount of time in. That should say it all right there.
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per se.
PER SE.
NOT "per say".
It's latin. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/per_se
Sorry but it really bugs me every time I see it spelled wrong.
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I think we have to look at the gain they get from free-weekends and bp events, so we know the margin of error we are working with. But I get what you are saying.
I also love, LOVE, this game, and want to see it self-right and improve. I'm posting this thread here to show people that there is a problem, and to rally people to try and push staff to fix them, before it's to late. I have real solutions posted in other threads as well, and I try to keep them bumped.
This is my petiton to hold Fog Whisperers to a higher standard:
Ideas for fixing the d/c meta:
And a game adjustment i've playested in KYF:
This is not me being a vulture, praying for the death of a game. I genuinely want this game to stop bleeding out.
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@edgarpoop, So back in August or September 2018, I forget the exact month, I stumbled on a Streamer that was running a sub-a-thon. Poor guy, because new subs increased the Stream clock, ended-up going for almost 42 hours.
Anyway, I won two giveaways in the Stream. One of them was a free copy of DbD. Since I already have the game, I offered it to a gamer relative who is also a massive horror fan.
They played it for about 10 hours, figured out the insane grind required to even hope to please RNGesus enough to also get the Meta builds unlocked on one character, never mind several, and put the game down. Now, keep in mind, this is a player who played MMOs during the grind-have-no-life EQ1 era. They played vanilla WoW and raided (which required hours of time and a set schedule). They aren't foreign to grinds.
They uninstalled a free copy of Dead by Daylight because for a new player, the grind is worse than even the EQ1-era MMOs.
And it is. The RNG bloodweb and teachables were a good idea three years ago. But with 15 Killers, 17 Survivors, and (according to the Wiki) three more of each slated between June and December of this year, it's just too much for new players. At this point, they need to completely redesign the system. Either perks just need to all be unlocked and available like in KYF (at least the Tier 1 versions) and the bloodweb be used for Add-Ons and Offerings and Tier 2 or 3 perks, or something else to get rid of the massive grind and RNG just for viable builds on one character.
Because except for the grind-fiesta loving new players, I don't see them growing much more under this system. Three years later, it's dying under its own weight.
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I never even thought about that. I'm a disabled war vet. I stay home all day, and a LOT of that time has been DBD. Over 400 hours of time. Working on 5. And most of my killers don't have access to the perks they need to work.
Keep in mind, I have the time to, and have, played this game 8-10 hours in a day. Maybe even more when I was trying to make a name for myself at Rank 1 ("Learning to Kill" is what i go by. I was planning to do a youtube channel devoted to killer education)
And if I don't have kits on killers I want to play, what about the Mother or Father that only has an hour or two after their kid goes to bed, and before they gotta get some sleep before work? I had an idea that would help this, that i came up with for other reasons.
In my post about fixing the d/c meta I suggest that everyone should already have all 4 perk slots open, at level 1. And every perk they have unlocked via grinding others should be available at level 1, at rank 1.
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@SmokePotion, Look at me, I'm in the boat you mentioned. While three of my kids are grown to one degree or another (25, 20, and 18), I also have a 9-year-old. And let's be honest, the 18 and 20 year olds aren't fully self-sustaining adults yet, either.
I'm an author. Not only do I produce three to four novels and other novellas a year on my own, but I also have contracts with other publishers for fiction work. I put in a lot of work hours.
The wife doesn't play DbD, so when she has the rare time to play a game (she's a Home Depot store manager), we play Overwatch together.
I don't have much time to put into Dead by Daylight. The grind here is ######### asinine. It's worse than any MMO, and I stopped playing MMOs due to the grind-time involved. I just don't have the time anymore.
I love DbD. I just hit Rank 15 last night. I'm in new territory now. After hitting rank 15, all I had last night were SWF teams that managed to pop gens like they were percocets and they were addicts. I don't even have a basic build ready to go yet. But thanks to this damned free-weekend, I double pipped like crazy last night.
So now this grind is leaving me with two choices:
1) Now I either purposefully avoid Pips while grinding bloodpoints, or just stop playing until rank reset next Saturday.
2) I just stop playing the game entirely because now it's just a steamroll against me, and the grind to have some Perk counters is beyond stupid and too RNG based.
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But you cant uprank from rank 15 i think.
Also you can't ready yourself for this game, because killers are underpowered and survivors will always have the upper hand, if they play good and hands in hands.
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@mcNuggets, not through the Pipping system. That's why I said "avoid pipping while grinding BP." That would keep me at Rank 15 until next Saturday.
When rank reset happens next Saturday, a Rank 15 drops to Rank 17 (with 1 pip).
And if one can't ready themselves for this game as killer, as you stated, then where is the expected learning curve? Exactly what core game design did Behavior put into place for that? Or is their design so bad (which would be worse than I thought) that they didn't?
I mean, let's call their spade a spade. I saw the Stream a little while ago where they claimed that SWF "was always intended, despite what the community thinks." Okay, then, where's the mechanics and learning curve to learn to play against a voice-comm SWF. If Behavior claims it was always intended, then surely as game designers they designed around that.
Right?
Well, we both know the answer.
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In essence, the devs have done everything in their power to [badword] over their player retention.
I don't think even a double bp weekend would pull people back anymore. I don't even clear out my daily quests anymore at current, what is the point of double bp if you don't play the game?
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The solution is hiring moar devs
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@BACKSTABBER, Oh, I have no doubt they are hiring more Devs. But it's for the new game that they're in partnership with Lionsgate to make.
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Games been going downhill since Legion's chapter
Post edited by Swiftblade131 on4 -
What new game?
Yup I don't see job offers for DBD
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And while we're on the subject of the grind. What is the point of it? Honestly. What does the grind (specifically for perks, not for add-ons or Moris) do in the context of this game that helps it? Do we stop playing once we have desired perks unlocked? I don't. That would defeat the purpose. I just use them on that killer. We don't pay to play. They don't get any more revenue once we pay for the DLC and unlock the teachable. They aren't tied to cosmetics. They don't seem to regulate the "blood point economy" per se, because I never run without yellow add ons at worst anyway and it never becomes an issue. I'd like to play Myers right now with a build, but I don't want to level Plague to 40, then hope I get 3 more perks on Myers without dumping 10 million bloodpoints in him. I'm actually playing the game less right now because of the grind. I ran into a situation with Freddy where I wanted Spirit Fury, and I literally got every other perk in the game (outside of Plague's) before getting it. Why is that a thing that can happen? Somewhat related, are perk tiers all that necessary? I can see why they would be for a new player just learning the ropes, but tier 1 and 2 perks are utterly pointless beyond rank 15 and nobody runs them by choice.
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@BACKSTABBER, It was in the article that came out on April 3rd. Paragraph #5, they mention how they're working on a new project with Lionsgate. And it was that partnership that led to them also being able to get the Ash license since Lionsgate also holds the rights to the Ash vs Evil Dead television series.
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@edgarpoop, this is what I've been saying since Summer 2018. See, last summer I bought DbD and all the DLCs on the Steam Summer Sale. By the release of Spirit that September, I left. The grind plus the RNG were just too asinine as a new player. I came back about a week ago to try again.
I can see where the grind+RNG made sense in the game's beginning. It was the carrot on the stick when they had three killers and a handful of survivors. But with a current 15 killers, 17 survivors, and three more chapters due out this year according to the Wiki, it's being crushed under its own weight. Especially when it isn't just a grind, but a completely RNG-influenced bloodweb on top of it.
It's worse when a new player goes to check out DbD guides for Survivor, Killer, or a specific Killer, to learn to play, and is being told what loadouts to use to be effective. They're loadouts that you either pleased RNGesus for and were granted, or you have 1k hours or more in the game already. It's completely out of reach for a new player. And once they learn that, which won't take long, unless they are a grind-loving type of player: why bother? There are other games out there.
They need to do something like Hi-Rez does with Paladins and the cards. All Perks are unlocked (obviously once you buy the DLC for those characters). From there, build your loadout like in KYF. Use the bloodweb for add-ons and offerings. You still have your bloodweb and bloodpoints, but you also have a chance to keep the average new player as well.
At this point, the Perk grind and RNG isn't a goal, it's damned stifling. Especially when you will hit Rank 15+ in the blink of an eye because the grey ranks are so easy to get out of, and find yourself at a serious disadvantage that you have little hope of overcoming without an insane amount of grind time in the game (and more than a little bloodweb luck).
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The purpose of grind is the grind itself. It's like GTA:O. Apart from grind and ranking up there is nothing to strive for in DBD.
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@ShirtlessDwight, but ask yourself how many new players that enter DbD are going to feel that way about this grind. If Steam numbers outside of a free-weekend or BP Event are an indication, not a lot. The game doesn't exactly show real growth anymore.
DbD is a PvP Game. And while having a Rank system is expected, this type of MMO-style grind isn't. Hell, it even hurts Realm Royale in the BR genre.
Getting good with the characters, then getting really good with the characters, experimenting with loadouts (if it has them, like in Paladins or Realm Royale, for example), climbing the ranks, those are the reasons most people play PvP games.
PvP'ers today aren't playing the genre to grind out massive bloodwebs that are also so heavily controlled by RNG, just to be able to experiment with builds and experience a core part of the DbD PvP aspect.
I like Realm Royale for example, but the class-level grinds in order to unlock needed talent builds is not why I would play a Battle Royale. So, Apex got my money.
I like Overwatch for PvP. Been there since Beta. Zero grind outside of SR grind for Ranked mode. The draw is getting good, then really good, with different Heroes and their unique kits.
DbD has the same draw. Get good with the characters, get good with different loadouts, get good with different tactics . . . except, wait: First you need 1k hours in the game and a lot of bloodweb luck before you can actually do that.
If you're one of those players that get their gaming jollies of on endless RNG grinds, then you're in heaven. But a majority of players who want to PvP? That's not the market. And if you look around at some of the complaints of new players, even at the reddit, it's the asinine grind, plus the RNG involved, before you can truly play the game as its designed, that turns them off.
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But that's where my hang-up lies: PVP games aren't about the journey. I just think people would be playing the game anyway without the grind because the whole point of PVP games is the competition and rank. People would still be striving for rank or playing casually with odd builds. And appealing to a wider audience will only help. Which circles back to the whole point of the thread: new people don't seem to be picking up the game.
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Probably not many unless they played a lot of korean MMOS like me. I didn't mean to condone the grind only try to rationalize it. I'm not even sure if the grind in DBD is justified by any research or they thought about random values.
I remember pouring almost 1 mil of bps into Adam after hitting lvl 50 to finally see selfcare lvl1.
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The worst thing is, with the current ranking system, people that should be much higher rank, are playing down there in the rank 15 pool. Many on purpose.
I also write, short stories atm. I wouldn't mind talking about that in DM if you're game to talk shop.
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Exactly.
They aren't overpowered but I hate going against the Legion, not as much as the Doctor or Freddy, but I still dislike them a lot. I would never DC but Legion is sooooo unfun to play against and something needs to be done after they start punishing DCs.
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@SmokePotion Yeah. Tell me about it.
I hit Rank 15 last night around midnight, and the game changed.
Tried to play Bubba since he is the only one I have BBQ on. Can't get it to appear in any other bloodweb.
Play Bubba? I'm laughing my ass off. First three Rank 15 games in a row I got hit with obvious SWFs that were not legitimate green ranks. They were coordinated like no tomorrow and gen-rushed me hard as hell. First game, I ate it. Very short game. Second game, four gens popped before I was even in a 30 second chase against one survivor (caught them at a popped generator), I did what I NEVER do. I DC'ed. Third game went the exact same way. I knew that one was likely going to be a bust when FOUR p3 Claudettes all loaded in. Should have dodged that lobby from the start. I didn't. Figured I'd play it and learn something.
Well, I once again learned that four gens can pop quicker than a virgin on prom night, I should walk away again (I did), and I should also logout of the game. Which I did.
That was the last series of games I played. I haven't logged in yet today, and I'm not sure that I care to. I went through the gray ranks way too fast thanks to this free-weekend and all the brand new survivors trying it out. I am not ready for Rank 15, where you have de-pip squads playing SWF. I'm tempted to just let the game collect dust until next Saturday, when rank reset will drop me back down to rank 17, because that was asinine. I don't care if survivors escape, I don't care if I pip, but I'll be damned before I keep playing matches and not have a chance to earn bloodpoints.
I suppose it's a good thing for me that the new Archives event is coming to Overwatch in a couple of weeks.
(Oh, and playing Nurse is not an option, before that suggestion is made. I've tried that. I seem to have the same issue with her blinks as I do with Tracer in Overwatch. The sudden movement on the screen makes me nauseous and I get a headache after a few times of doing it.)
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I don't have much time to play so I'm usually around rank 10, and the number of high skill high coordination teams I'm facing lately is way higher than it was when I was in red ranks for a month.
I think depip squads are getting stuck around there and slamming mid tier players.
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he game may have lost players but believe me,
the game will not die
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Yeah, green ranks is hell right now.
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It's simple:
The game idea itself is amazing.
The execution is very poor and amateur.
I loved this game and defended it like no other game and I was very addicted and dedicated that I could not play another game.
So I decided to deinstall 2 months ago after playing 1 year and devotion 5 on console with all problems it had(s).
The game bugs won't change, the fps won't increase, especially on console which I played and if you don't realize it you are lying to yourself, lying for 2 years now ...
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Screw survivors.
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I just assumed the dip is the same as it has been the last 2 years during March & April. Still 3K more players on the PC & 12K more peak players than this time last year. That's not counting however many are playing on consoles.
If they can track down the damn loading bug, adjust the emblems...again (not that I care about pipping but the Ranks need to be straightened out) and then servers are supposed to be coming...we'll see where the future of this game is in a few months. Also, f#ck all you purposely D/Cing survivors.
Even with the repetitiveness of it all I still enjoy it almost 2K hours later // almost 3 years later.
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The free weekened is over, and we can see that things are still in the red, and going down. All the free weekened managed to do was bring the average daily players up to about even for a day. So contrary to popular belief, I don't think free weekends pad numbers much. They are trying to entice new players into buying a game for a reduced cost, a game that's in an absolutely horrible spot.
I can't even play survivor anymore, it's all camping and tunneling to get 9 hooks and 4k. And I can only play my best picks as killer, because almost every rank is red and purple ranks now.
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Two DLCs in rapid succession and a free weekend couldn't even get the game back up to pre-Legion numbers. Hahahah!
Pathetic.
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