http://dbd.game/killswitch
How are you supposed to counter Ghoul in general? (Rant)
This killer is the reason why I'm so burnt out of the game right now, and it's every match. All it takes to win with this killer is to jump to a survivor and insta-cancel with your power, and there's no chance for the survivor to make any distance, if you have no resources available you might as well just give up.
The nerfs did absolutely nothing, Ghoul can still traverse the map at an insane rate, easily injure survivors, and destroy any chances at making distance, it's not fair, and it's flat out boring, I'm tired of versing the same thing every match.
I'm trying to also farm blood points, but all these Ghoul's are doing are jumping right back to the hook to tunnel me out, one moment they are across the map, then the moment they hear the unhook notification they are right back at the hook, how is this fun?
If you're on a small map, consider it done, no one's escaping, if you're on a big map like Mother's Dwelling maybe, but still very annoying to deal with considering he can just traverse the map in a blink of an eye, with such a short cooldown.
Wanna try to loop also? Ghoul can also vault pallets, or just close in the distance, including body blocking a pallet or window by jumping to it so the survivor has no chance, very fun and engaging.
And Ghoul has a base speed of 4.6 which is so stupid, why does the Ghoul need that when they also have a stupidly insane map traverse power, as if they weren't strong enough, they need to nerf it down to 4.4.
But in all seriousness, how in the world are you supposed to counter Ghoul? I'm in serious need of help with versing Ghoul; actual tips are appreciated rather than troll comments. I'm not the best looper I'm going to admit, so some other players will be better at versing Ghoul than players like me, so any experienced loopers that have any tips please share!
Comments
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His non-existent cooldowns are very problematic
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His entire kit is problematic, I don't want them to gut him, but rather make him balanced, why are killers like Skull Merchant or Ghostface in their current state while Ghoul is extremely strong in every aspect.
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I see a lot of Ghouls bringing Bamboozle, Sprit Fury, and the likes to counter some things, so these are more general tips from my experience so far.
If not in power, pre-run a day early and use LoS blockers, maybe even pre-throwing strong pallets very early when pathing to delay and deny him enrage mode as long as possible when able to.
Stick close to windows and tiles, bring map offerings (unironically as a counter) for indoor maps like Gideon with lots of windows and resources (had a Ghoul tell my friend this after one of our matches), Lery's or other Indoor maps can be hard for him to travel long distances how he wants, and don't get caught in the open like with Dracula.
Try to stick to a pallet and move to either side immediately to try and avoid the grab when he's enraged, but ymmv depending on the Ghoul player. Play loops tight and try to squeeze as much value as possible before throwing the pallet, or baiting for another loop around. Jungle Gym tile with the strong window and a pallet setup he really struggles on without Bamboozle.
My patented 3 Ken Mantra
- Ken You Loop?
- Ken You Break LoS?
- Ken You Play Injured?
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He’s one of the easiest killers to loop in the game.
He’s only unloopable on farm maps with huge dead zones.
I literally don’t understand how you can’t loop him. I can play 10 matches against him and loop him for 60-90 second every single time without fail except for those maps.-46 -
Maybe be useful and put some tips on how to counter him, since your super skilled I'd like to know.
He’s one of the easiest killers to loop in the game.How so?
I literally don’t understand how you can’t loop him.Maybe read my post than you'll have a better idea.
I can play 10 matches against him and loop him for 60-90 second every single time without fail except for those maps.Good for you, yet you don't provide any videos or tips on how.
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Appreciate you! <3
.+*Boop*+.
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- I recommend you use "windows of opportunity". with all killers it's a good perk, but with him it's essential because only windows and pallets can stop him. you don't have time to "look around" (he closes every distance), this perk helps you find new resources quickly. I've never used perk, but I found out that it works very well against kaneki
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You can’t really outrun a ghoul. As frustrating as it can be, honestly I’ve found some small success in stealth. Perks that make you silent like calm spirit/iron will, possibly distortion even though I’ve had very mixed results on getting enough tokens back for it to be viable, and maybe off the record to help with tunneling. It’s not a perfect solution but it may be worth a try.
If forced into a 1v1 I wouldn’t ever try to stun with a pallet as in my experience I make more distance if I pre-drop rather than stun. Try to hug those walls as tight as possible and go for more bulky stuff to run around rather than straight walls like shack.
Good luck out there!
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Ghoul's map traversal is worse than Blight, and around the same as Dracula. And I think Houndmaster making a long distance traversal to a generator is around the same speed as Ghoul's long distance map traversal.
Ghoul's leaps are short ranged, and his power recharge is slow. Yes, it has good burst speed, but it's not really overperforming for long distance map traversals. It's the same error that many people make with Nurse, where they assume she has good map traversal because of her burst speed, but Nurse doesn't really have good long distance map traversal.
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Try the "Hide tech". You have to dress up as Hide, use bardic inspiration and act really cute. It works more often than you'd think.
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the motto of ghoul players
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Have to try that one out. Sounds similar to my "Alucard Bribe tech." Which, long story short involves Dracula, Alucard, and lots of blood cans placed in the open.
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I’ll start by saying there are no great solutions but here’s what’s given me the most success:
- Accept that you are giving up a free hit and try to get better at surviving while injured (this does not mean staying injured all match - I mean post first hit).
- Avoid dropping pallets unless you are sure you will get the stun and/or if the power is on cooldown.
- Bring Strength in the shadows and Resurgence. Yes you have to run to basement but being able to infinitely heal yourself is invaluable especially if you can break chase a couple of times per match.
- Slam gens.
- Hope for the best lol.
My build: Lithe, Resurgence, Strength in the Shadows, Overzealous.
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Try doing the twerk tech with Dwight. In my experience, killer players are extremely thirsty, and will quickly fold when they see those tiny buns jiggling about.
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As. Killer main the ghoul has a few big weaknesses.
Tight loops with los breakers- especially after his recent nerfs these are an excellent defense at preventing him from grabbing you, and if he wiffs l, allowing you to get distance to another loop.
Ledges- if you are able to loop near a ledge and the ghoul isn't attentive they can easily slide off the edge of something.
Do not camp or pre drop pallets- especially if he's enraged. Try to go for the stuns.
Gyms are your friend, especially if they have a pallet nearby or in it.
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Oh, looks like another one bites the dust.
R.I.P.
To the topic, I don't want yet another Freddying, so I would be cautious with nerfs.
One thing that people seem to dislike is his vault speed, which was slow in PTB (last time I played him), but got buffed. Maybe that would be a thing to look at?
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I will have to try this one out in-game 👀
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Incredible question!
You aren't. His recovery from a missed M2 is too fast and… I'm not calling it kidnap tech- the enraged vault grab leaves you with far too little distance to make any play happen.
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I personally find healing is really undervalued against him as a way to stop him getting quick downs (but its map dependant if it has lots of LoS blockers), I've started bringing bond and empathic connection to heal others and get healed faster and also know when I can take a hit for someone who is injured by him to waste more time.
I also used vigil and sprint burst so I can get rid of his hindered faster and get to cover faster if he catches me working on a gen to force LoS.
Of course, it's easier said than done, it's very easy for the Ghoul to just use their charges to get better positioning and this just relies on a very inexperienced player and also getting a decent map too.0 -
I've been running Resurgence for quick heals under hook. And considering how prone Ghoul players are to returning to hook, I've also been trying Blood Rush with Sprint Burst to try to make better distance.
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Do not camp or pre drop pallets- especially if he's enraged. Try to go for the stuns.
On this point, do camp inside the pallet if they are actively leaping at you, making sure to not give them space to block the drop prompt. Do not pre-drop it if they are. Otherwise they're just going to use their 2nd/3rd leap to vault after you and get the hit.
In general you have to be really careful around pallets as survivor, and predict whether or not the Ghoul is going to wait for you to pre-drop so they can insta-vault, or if they're going to brute force try to M1 through the pallet. If it's the former and you predict it correctly, you can usually make another go around on the pallet. If it's the latter, you play for the stun. It's similar to dealing with Vecna's Mage Hand, all things considered.
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I don't even want to play survivor until they nerf this POS. It's so unfun.
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How do you counter the Ghoul?
Step 1. Get hooked by Ghoul
Step 2. Go Next on Hook
Step 2b. if rescued from hook, get hooked again
Step 3. Final Go Next on Hook
Step 4. Pull a Skull Merchant on him by over-inflating his kill rate, and watch the giga-nerf hit him the way it did Adriana.
Seriously though, as others have said you need to break LoS as soon as possible, more so than you would with a Nurse, even.
A LOT of Ghouls I've encountered are using aura read perks, so as sad as it is, Distortion is almost more valuable than MFT right now. If you don't want to run Distortion you have to become very familiar with the aura-read timings for BBQ & Chili and Friends Till the End, plus the bonus 2 seconds Lethal Pursuer may be providing, and run to a locker (without fast-entering, mind you) to prevent him from getting a bead on your position.
It also pays to understand scratchmark logic, as well as duration so you can better judge when it is and isn't safe to run and leave him a trail to follow. So far the maps he fairs worst on are The Game and Lery's, primarily because you can easily break his LoS and mess with his ability to zip around the map.
Edit: And for the love of the Entity, DO NOT HEAL UNDER HOOK when facing a Ghoul. Even if he's in chase, he can get back to the hook long before you can finish healing unless you have some giga-speed, 5 stack Autodidact build.-1 -
Would you like to just be able to hold w against ghoul?
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Oh boy what I found for you
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Love you for this! This was actually very useful.
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Ill definitely give those perks a go.
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They're not instant! I don't know why y'all keep saying that. It's just faster, as in not unbearably slow like the rest of the cast.
Oh, well if you just assume that you have "no" resources every time, which take tons of time for the killer to break, then every killer is technically OP!
You take a look at those nerfs, and honestly say it didn't do anything. Really? He was already somewhat clunky before. Do y'all ever even play the killers y'all complain about? His movement, definitely nerfed, as is his power in general, since the devs force him to lose a token upon pallet break, which is a terrible design precedent. I was already saying, "If you make him worse than he is now, he will lose his ability to compete with good survivors." And so he has! As far as I'm concerned, he's destroyed. He's done.
Bringing up blood points is grounds for writing off someone's complaint, just saying. It has nothing to do with balance.
And what killers are you facing anyway, in comparison to your team? So the killer's just coming back to hook every time, basically guaranteeing no real pressure on the other 3 players. What are they doing in the meantime? Those 5 gens should be done. And if tunneling is that effective, I expect to say the complainers running all the anti-tunnel perks at their disposal. Already, you can get basically instant heals off hook with We'll Make It, and that new survivor's perks isn't even in the game yet.
The maps aren't small. They're just not huge like they historically have been. Still big enough for any kind of gen split to be an instant loss for the killer. Sure, he can bound through a great deal of it with 2-3 tokens, but then he's on cooldown for chase.
Ghoul's anti-loop also isn't that good. I guarantee that if you just continue running the loop normally after he vaults, you still make it back to the pallet 9/10 times. I've seen many people complaining about this who literally just hold forward after he slides over, which he's designed to counter, or they move left and right, essentially making no distance on the loop while he's sliding. It's all on the survivors to mess up.
Making a killer 110% speed instantly kills them, and I don't even have to explain why. The game isn't balanced for the killers who ARE 115%, even those with mobility abilities. Play a 110% killer, or any M1 killer, and feel how bad and slow it is to chase someone.
You can counter Ghoul before anything even happens in-match, by equipping Resilience and/or Made For This. Like Legion, he's gonna get that easy injure. That doesn't make him OP. You simply take that into account, and use it against him. I see a lot of people constantly healing vs him: bad play. He can also body block you by jumping ahead of you at a loop or building, so just position your body between where you're trying to go and where he's coming from, and he won't be able to do that. It's not foolproof, because he's gonna try to move in a way that counters your counter maneuver, but it's something. And like any killer who you just fall apart vs in chase, either take the chases until you get better, or hide vs them.
That's really all I've got. From someone who enjoys playing killer more, I just don't see what y'all are seeing. I saw a pretty well designed killer, now made bullyable by good survivors if he wasn't already. He's accessible, may be y'all's frustration. Most of his techs are accessible to learners and to console players, and don't take 1000 hours to learn. Top Ghouls will always do fine with him, because they're going to learn those crazier bound techs whether it's viable or not, and that'll usually give them the edge/surprise factor to do decently/more than decent. But for all other players, these current and future nerfs just killed him.
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I thought everyone was joking, but I wonder if they are serious.
If you still can't forgive a killer that has been nerfed so much, in multiple items, I feel that is largely your own fault.-4 -
Honestly he is weakest side of rushing killers
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Just get used to playing injured. He gets the first hit for free but after that his power becomes basically useless at most loops. Literally just Legion with mobility.
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Who loses his ability after breaking a pallet. Genius!
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MFT is extremely strong against him, Resi is also extremely strong if you're confident enough at looping to get value from it. Windows of Opportunity is also a very important and great perk against him because ghoul will down you in the open in seconds, but can still be outplayed at loops. WoO helps you avoid deadzones where ghoul can simply hit you, leap after you, and down you almost immediately.
Some anti tunnel is good too, Dead Hard or DS is important. Dead Hard is still decent despite his power putting you in deep wounds. Because either you find yourself with MFT, or you find yourself with a Dead Hard ready. If you often end up looping ghoul easily and not getting tunneled much in your games, but your teammates are getting stomped, consider bringing Shoulder the Burden. It could potentially save the match but it is situational.
Some general tips against him is never drop a pallet while healthy, it's not worth it, just play the loop as long as possible without wasting any pallets, he will hit you with the free injure eventually. When you do get injured, use the full distance to reach a decent tile, he will need to recharge his power for a few seconds. At loops, you can usually outplay his instant vault over windows or pallets with the MFT + Resi combo.
Be very careful with unhooks and healing under hook. It's smart to wait for him to completely leave before unhooking, and ensure he's in another chase if you're going to heal. So much time is wasted by healing and then having ghoul jump back in and interrupt the heal, maybe even downing them. Best case if ghoul goes to interrupt a heal is them applying deep wounds and negating any OTR or DH that the unhooked survivor may have had, which is still really bad. So be careful.
Because he is so good at interrupting unhooks, you could bring a strong healing medkit or even a healing perk if you're comfortable with sacrificing a perk slot for it, it may help you get the heal off before he can interrupt it and buy you both some time to run and extend the chase.
I actually don't mind going against ghoul and can run him pretty good in chase, but again I've been running MFT+Resi+Windows+whatever since he came out to pretty good success.
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Pre-nerf, I won 25 matches in a row, single slowdown, without camping, tunneling, 3 genning or slugging.
Post-nerf, the worst I've done is the odd 1k in a sea of 3ks and 4ks, still playing under a playstyle many would find unnecessarily restrictive.
I'm not that good at killer. Which means Kaneki is the problem. His missed m2 recovery time needs nerfing, and the enraged vault speed bonus needs removing entirely.
Post edited by kit_mason on7 -
Just practice AS him, and you'll get better at COUNTERING him.
Now, that'll be $5 please
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If you want to give credence to that statement, you should attach some kind of screenshot.
Besides, it seems to me that you are making too much fun of other survivors to claim to have such a winning streak, even before the nerf.
At least, I don't remember such a winning streak record in my actual experience and in many streamer, and the survivors have now adapted to him.
I don't really agree with your claim that you are disparaging even survivors in order to get your point across.
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masterfully done, you both created a setup to move the goalposts with your screenshot request AND you managed to make an ad hominem attack by presuming that me bringing up a 100% winrate at all is a means to disparage survivors.
I do not have screenshots of all 25 matches that make up the streak. Nor would that be sufficient, as I also claim to not employ strategies a winscreen does not detail. You would've needed a recording of every match in the streak. You are free to doubt me, but I assure you I have no reason to lie, seeing as I would quite like to main Kaneki for the forseeable future.
To address your other major point - I am arguing a killer is strong. How would you like me to do this without arguing survivors cannot beat him? I will happily follow that route with you.
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Do you yourself realize that there is no objectivity whatsoever in your statement?
I agree with you that Kaneki is powerful.
But just powerful is not enough to allow a player with an improved MMR, after 25 wins in a row, and who is not a good killer, to have a string of 3k or 4k against a top survivor.
Even a skilled Nurse or Blight will have a much harder time of it.
That's why I want some kind of proof to trust you.
If Kaneki is such a powerful killer, I will use it. LOL.
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We live in a subjective world - without BHVR providing official stats and deep-diving into the reasons why, we will never have objectivity.
You request proof that is impossible to provide, as any you ask for are easily just fodder for moved goalposts.
As I've said. You're free to think I'm lying.
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I don't think “moving the goalposts” is such a convenient term. LOL
You simply told a lie that could easily be spotted if you had a good understanding of the game system.
Well, please relax your shoulders.
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I didn't, you just chose not to believe me. The highest winstreak I've seen is well into the quadruple digits. Is 25 mathematically impossible under the game's systems somehow?
And for someone that opened our conversation with accusations of disparaging the other side, you do seem to be having fun attempting to make me mad at you. Are you, by the way? Having fun, I mean.
You never did answer my question. How would you like me to assess Kaneki's overall strength without involving the capability of survivors?
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Oh, it's a vice of mine to want to tease a little when I see someone who is excited, never mind.
Back on topic, I guess I didn't exactly choose not to believe, just that there wasn't a claim out there worth believing.
It's hard to believe that a player with an irrational playstyle, who is not good at killers, would repeatedly hit 3K and 4K in a row after the MMR was raised, and so on, the longer you play the more you can't believe it.
As to your last question, I condemned your statement because you have to take into account the ability of the survivors.
As I said before, I don't believe that a player with an irrational playstyle and a poor killer can make many kills in a top MMR.
It is no different with Nurse or Blight, the top killers in the game.
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It's believe from the perspective that Kaneki is and was too strong, and is far simpler than Nurse or Blight to get value from.
That of course said, you have no intent on believing me, so I don't see us getting anywhere other than talking in circles. Have a nice rest of your day.
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It's becoming more and more unreliable......
What matters in high MMR is not how easy it is to become proficient, but how high the limit of ability is.
Kaneki is certainly powerful, but are you trying to claim that it is more than a proficient nurse or Blight, which are often found in high MMR?
Many will understand that is impossible.
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I mean, given there are at least two killers stronger than Blight right now (Houndmaster, Hillbilly) it's not that impossible.
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Don't know why this got downvoted, but the point stands true for most killers.
The best way to counter a killer is to play as them, and learn counterplay from watching the opponents you get, like the best ways to loop and evade and such.
Example: I used to struggle a lot against Wesker in the beginning, but after I started playing him myself, I find him very fun and engaging to play against, since I now know how to counterplay against him.0 -
I took 3 weeks off, came back - first match was Kaneki.
Tried to do what you do against Wesker & Nurse which is double back/try to be unpredictable. Not only did it not work (Kaneki just canceled out mid swing & his aim lock just instant applied Deep Wound) but I was also on the other side of a tile, lol. The most disappointing part is - you can tell you outplayed the player on Kaneki, but his kit mitigates it. Almost like laughing in your face.
Its almost as if they gave Kaneki the gift of having 300+ ms ping & said 'screw it, lets make it a power'. Reminds me of Freddy long fingers when it comes to vaults.
Hate this killer with a passion right now, ngl.
Nice 'nerfs'.
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Just for clarification on why I disagreed— I don’t think what they said is necessarily wrong…playing a killer can definitely help you understand their mechanics better. But I disagree with the idea that it’s a reasonable/accessible solution for most players. Expecting survivors to buy every killer they struggle against, then invest time learning to play those killers—just to improve their ability to run away from them—feels like a high annd uneven demand. Especially when you consider that survivors don’t have access to any real practice tools of their own, while killers do have those options through bots/custom matches.
Respectfully, I feel that Being pushed into a role or pushed to purchase a killer you’re not interested in just to compensate for a lack of support in the role you do play is slighty unreasonable and not sustainable.
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