http://dbd.game/killswitch
I'm sorry for those who got P100 Kaneki.
I said those previous nerfs wouldn't be the only ones, survivors would keep complaining instead of learning how to play against him. I've seen this happen before... Nothing changes.
Comments
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The nerfs were well deserved because there were not any decent counter play against him. Mostly the people who are using the arguement for Kaneki "just learn counter-play" are exclusive killer mains who never play as a survivor.
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The nerfs he is receiving this patch are completely fine. There is no learning how to play against him if he can just vault pallets in enraged mode and get free hits that way.
And the fact he has to wait a bit more after breaking a pallet before using his power will just give survivors slightly more time to get to somewhere else. Yes that nerf is going to be noticeable but I think it's going to be good. He was still a bit overtuned.
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What a surprise, they released an overtuned Killer on purpose and are now adjusting him. This has nothing to do with Survivors complaining, it was their full intention to raise the sales by making him way too easy for what he achieves.
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Fully agree. Weโve seen this happen with other killers in the past, so this seems like a pattern. Sell tons of DLCs with the excitement of an especially powerful killer, put up with survivor complaints for a little while, then nerf the killer to something that people probably wouldnโt have been all that excited about at initial launch.
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You managed to predict that Kaneki, a killer that has the most absurd auto-aim I've ever seen in a game, and Chucky's OG scamper, would get more nerfs? That's some Mystic Meg levels of insight you've got there.
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I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. Of the last six killers previous to Kaneki, only two (Chucky and Xenomorph) were nerfed after release, and three of the remaining four (Houndmaster, Dracula, Vecna) released too weak and got buffed after release in some form. For completion's sake the one killer who basically wasn't changed until noticeably after release was Unknown.
Even the other big licenses in that pool, Vecna and Dracula, mostly got buffed with a few cooldown nerfs here and there, nothing like this. Equally, the two nerfs weren't even really like this; Xeno's change was pretty minor and Chucky's was a bit more in line but still nowhere as pronounced as how unbalanced Kaneki is/was.
There's clearly no pattern here, so I don't think you can say BHVR made Kaneki too strong on purpose. I think it was just a mistake they're correcting now.
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The nerfs barely changed anything and the only thing of real note is that Yamori's Mask is no longer completely busted
He's still top 5 strong, a slightly longer cooldown that only happens when breaking pallets doesn't change the fact that Kaneki has the best mobility in the game, a free first hit, and very fast vaulting speed.
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Loop.
Literally just loop.
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Yeah Kaneki is just straight dead now lol, his single biggest strength was destroying predrop W in exchange for actually being loopable and now he lost that strength.
"Oh but he's still super mobile!" Yeah? So is Dredge. Who cares about mobility when you have no lethality to back it up?
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I usually dont react to you, but I want to tell you that you are wrong. It is logical that they went with an OP-Killer for this Chapter. It was a Killer-only paragraph and it was quite niche compared to e.g. Dracula or Xenomorph. It was clear from the start that not everyone likes Anime. And the Devs needed some selling argument for those who are not completionists/collectors and who are not into Anime - so they created a Killer which is braindead easy for the reward it granted.
We can argue where Ghoul was on the Tier List, but he was AT LEAST at the Top of A-Tier, very likely even S-Tier, up with Blight and Nurse. And for way too less effort you have to put into him to get good results. This was solely done to boost the sales.
And if you cannot see this - sorry, you are just clueless.
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I don't know, that seems like a slight stretch to me, still.
Couldn't you also say that about any killer, hypothetically? Any other big-name you could argue BHVR would make powerful to draw in the fans, any killer that is licensed but isn't a big name would be made powerful to boost sales, any killer that isn't licensed would be made powerful to make them more appealing compared to licensed chaptersโฆ
It's not as though killers haven't been too strong on release ever before, too, it just hasn't happened that much recently. I think Kaneki being in that boat was just a mistake. Maybe they wanted to make sure he wasn't weak and overshot, but I don't think there's enough evidence here to say BHVR genuinely made him overpowered on purpose.
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"but I don't think there's enough evidence here to say BHVR genuinely made him overpowered on purpose."
They did it before. Two times. Ash and Mikaela, Mettle of Men and Circle of Healing. But those are obviously Survivor-Perks, there people accept that BHVR did it on purpose as a Cashgrab.
But not with a Killer, nono. This was only because of Survivors complaining. This was the ONLY reason. /s
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I wasn't around for Mettle of Man, so no comment there.
Circle of Healing, though, point blank was not made overpowered on purpose then nerfed after they got the right amount of sales. This is extremely obvious via the fact that it was nerfed several times to try and make it work, and then after being soft-reworked, is still one of the most powerful altruistic healing tools in the game.
It's another example of something being too strong by mistake. That can still happen, it's safer to assume incompetence over malice.
(That's just a saying, I don't think BHVR are incompetent either.)
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And what to do when he just vaults the pallet in enraged mode? What is a survivor to do in that case?
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If you do the correct read that he's going to raise his tentacles, you keep running. It's exactly the same thing as playing against a killer who hits you over the pallet. If you keep running, he will have to cancel the power and get a slowdown. I've countered this several times as well as seen several survivors counter it when I was playing with him.
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The cooldown of canceling his power is not very strong, are you sure that works? I feel like that would only work on very small pallet loops and that's it.
And it doesn't change the fact that the counter play is gone once the pallet is down. The nerf he got was well deserved, and from my experience so far, might not be enough. I was still able to get some hits against survivors after using the vault at a normal pallet loop easily. They might have to increase the vaulting time ever so slightly as well, like to 1.7 seconds from 1.5 seconds.
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No, even in safe loops you can still do this. You need to get the stun on the pallet, or if he doesn't have enduring you can also just camp the pallet and wait for him to turn off the power, I've done it several times too.If they increased the time to perform the vault, this killer will be dead for sure, since that is his only "anti loop".And they brutally nerfed the only effective way to play with him by putting this 2 token cooldown when you break the pallet.
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Wouldnโt the โitโs from a niche IPโ argument be disproven by literally all original killers, though? They donโt come with associations to a property, so shouldnโt they also be overtuned to promote sales?
And your survivor argument, by that same token, shouldnโt Alan Wake have come with broken perks? Alan Wake is a fairly niche property, certainly way smaller than one of the best known manga/anime properties of the industry.
Actually, Tokyo Ghoul is simply not a niche property. The manga is one of the best-selling manga of all time. Outside of the west, the chapter was bound to be succesful, regardless of power.
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I guess this is typical of whining survivors.
They are trying to add further nerfs to Kaneki. Perhaps he will repeat this until Kaneki becomes a killer without power.
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People are clueless if they don't agree with your conspiracy that the devs made Kaneki op on purpose to boost sales? That's certainly some mental gymnastics lol.
I think there are few people that will argue Kaneki wasn't busted at release. He was way overpowered. And even after the nerfs now he still seems pretty strong. But you've got no proof that BHVR made Kaneki op just because they wanted to boost sales. Of course there is also no way of proving that that wasn't the case, but still. Acting like you know that's the case is pretty ridiculous.
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They luckily did not do that with Survivors anymore. Probably because the backlash was too big.
And when it comes to niche thingsโฆ Original Chapters dont have fanbases. Original Chapters also dont cost money to buy. ANd, last but not least, they dont need to spend extra money on any licenses.
For licensed content however they have to make it possible that a maximum amount of people want to buy it. This can be achieved with:
People just buying everything โ> whales, collectors, completionistsโฆ Whatever you want to call them.
People liking the license โ> A Anime-Fan or Tokyo Ghoul-Fan would by the chapter.
Making the Character, their Perks, whatever strong โ> Everyone else who does not fall in the first two categories.
And given that before not a small amount of people said that Anime would not really fit into DBD (yes, this was an opinion), they had more reason to appease those people.
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This person and I have history. They love to intentionally misunderstand me or take things I said out of context. So I might be biased and consider the whole history with them to call them "clueless".
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I'll keep an eye out on possible counterplay against Kaneki when I play him, but so far I am still not convinced it's enough. Having to play for a stun is not easy against a good killer player, the odds are stacked against the survivor considerably.
And waiting until he deactivates his power to drop the pallet might work to buy the survivor a few seconds, but now the pallet is down and he will quickly be able to use his power again and vault over the pallet as soon as he has line of sight on the survivor again.
I think if his vault time during enraged was increased to 1.7 or 1.8 seconds, he'd still be fine. It would just give survivors a bit more of a chance to get around the loop again, having at least the possibility to mindgame at the loop. But as I said I am not yet sure if that change is needed or if the hindered nerf of this update was enough.
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Loop. I've done it a million times. I'll do it a million more times. Unless your brain is off looping Kaneki is baby mode easy.
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Certainly not. Most survivor players just also want to have fun against a killer. And that's all I am asking for. If his vault speed still turns out to be too fast, which I am not yet sure of, then it should receive another small nerf so it becomes fair. I feel like that would be the only nerf Kaneki still needs.
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I think you're either trolling or just rage baiting
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No, most people are just so used to the predrop W meta that they've become obscenely terrible at looping and they don't like that Kaneki finally makes that apparent.
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I play for ladder, I don't think there's any problem with my looping skills. "Hold-W" exists because of how the numbers of pallets on maps has reduced and and size of the maps got shrinked, moreover, why would you waste all of the resources suddenly? This would just turn the map into a deadzone. Do you really expect people to circle around only one pallet and drop it when killer about to catch up? Of course you will going to hold w, chain loops and tiles for the extend loop times wasting the killer's time for a better gen efficiency. Kaneki is just a buggy killer, nothing feels different after the nerfs, his kidnap tech and that bug downs you after he tags you with power while vaulting and downing you still exists. You are just trolling at the moment because when people asking you for the counterplay, you're avoiding answering and still saying the same thing
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I mean it's a commendable marketing tactic
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Kaneki damaging survivors next to a window he vaults (at least that's what I'm assuming you're talking about, that sentence is really hard to read) is not a bug. That is an intentional feature designed to stop survivors from just clipping through Kaneki and vaulting back over the other side because that would make the vault categorically worthless. You can tell it's intentional because Wesker does the exact same thing.
"Less pallets means survivors predrop-W more"
Dawg, what? It's the opposite. Less pallets means you should be looping and not predropping because you need to be more efficient with the smaller number of pallets you have. The reason predrop-W is so strong is because so many maps still have an insane pallet count to the point where you can pop them like Tic-Tacs and it doesn't matter.
"when people asking you for the counterplay, you're avoiding answering and still saying the same thing"
I told you the counterplay. It's looping. Kaneki is a loopable killer. Loop him like you would anyone else.
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Alright I've seen what I need to see, I won't be a part of this ragebait. I wish you a good day
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How do you loop when Kaneki vaults a pallet and you don't get to the other side of the pallet in time again? That's the question being asked here. Just saying loop doesn't really help at all.
I am hoping this has finally been fixed wit the nerf to the hindered effect, but before that nerf, I don't see how you would counterplay that.
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Have you played him? It doesn't sound like you have.
The cancellation duration is about the same as nemesis, during which he moves super slow (slower than nemesis cancellation btw). Not much different from most other killers with a power like that. Also, during this time the killer is likely stopping the movement so they can predict you dropping the pallet, so you get a little extra distance there. Usually enough time to get around again.
Then there is the better mindgame of, just stand there. And if they use the power, then drop the pallet, and stun them, if they cancel, drop the pallet and stun them, if they stand there, you just stand there. Because unlike other killers who can hit over or through a pallet, you still have to land the m1, so getting hit by the grab does nothing if you just immediately stun them.
Or are you going to say that nemesis is overpowered now? Because the pallet game is exactly the same there. The different being that the ghoul doesn't break the pallet with the power.
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There are also records in this video showing why Kaneki has broken problems and these specific issues are still not fixed https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Hf_gg5Wlns8
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Of course. And from a marketing-perspective I totally agree with this. BHVR wants and needs to make money and maximizing the amount of potential buyers for a Chapter is the Key. But since I am not a Marketing-Manager at BHVR but a customer who plays there game, I highly dislike to release things too strong intentionally. Because this just makes too many people upset. Survivor-gameplay was miserable when Ghoul released, which in turn also means that Survivors give up more frequently, which results in bad games for both Killer and Survivor, especially because Killer queues were long. And now Ghoul got nerfed and Killers are upset.
And still some people dont think it was intentional. But while BHVR in the past did not really know about balancing (which is fine, DBD is the first successful game of its kind), the Devs nowadays know what they are doing. They are smart and have a good idea of the game and how it should be balanced. So I cannot really get the idea to think that it was a mistake.
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You can get to the other side. Done it plenty of times, had it done to me plenty of times, such will continue forever because it's really not that hard to just space the window correctly.
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Mystic meg ๐ been years since I heard that name
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How exactly am I a whining survivor? I already explained my thought process and why I think that Kaneki might still need a very small nerf to his vaulting speed in enraged mode. Maybe he won't need it though, it's too early to tell for me.
Is this all you are capable of though? Calling other people whiny survivors if they don't agree with you?
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I have played 6 matches or of him now. I also played him for a bit after release and the first patch but he still seemed too strong so I stopped playing the game again.
To me he now feels like he could actually be balanced. The counterplay of not dropping the pallet might exist, not sure of that myself yet, but now it seems like you can't always get a free hit when vaulting the pallet in enraged mode, which is a good thing in my opinion. The nerf to his cooldown after breaking a pallet is also great in my opinion. It's short enough so that he can still use his power to catch up to survivors effectively, but survivors now do have a somewhat better chance at getting to another tile.
The counterplay of just standing at the pallet is interesting, I'll keep an eye out for that.
Also, Nemesis doesn't have insane mobility and the ability to get injures as easily, so I don't think that's a good comparison.
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I don't know, the survivors that I went against weren't able to get around the loop. Until now that is. I have played some more matches with Kaneki and the nerf definitely does seem to have helped, so maybe it was indeed enough.
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The latter clips might not be a problem anymore thanks to the hindered nerf that survivors suffer after Kaneki vaults a pallet. At least in my experience survivors have been able to get to the other side of the pallet in time now.
Are you sure the bugs that are shown in that video still exist? Haven't had them in any of my matches so far, and I think the patch notes state that the bug was fixed.
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It happened on KnightLight's stream today, you can check his Kaneki game from the where he was trying him after the nerfs
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You mean the bug happened on the stream? If so, that definitely sucks. I really hoped they would have fixed the bug. Luckily it hasn't happened to me yet and I don't know how to use the bug.
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Well it's actually very easy to do, and people started to learn it, it may cause problems in the future. And I can't tell you how to do it because I dont want to violate forum rules
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Yes nemesis doesn't have insane mobility, but he also has NPCs that travel the map and harass and potentially hit survivors, he also is able to break pallets with his power. Different killers are different. We are talking about the very specific scenario you pointed out of "how do i loop this" which i gave the answer, it is no different (if anything it is worse) than nemesis. So you treat it the same way you would treat nemesis.
But honestly, the fact that you said "i played 6 matches with him" really shows me exactly what i need to know. Try playing him for 100 and them come back and tell me he has no counterplay. 6 games is not enough to understand how the killer works.
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She was an icon.
RIP Queen ๐
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No its fine I wouldn't want to know it anyways. I just hope they can fix the bug as fast as possible.
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Great, just had a match where this exact bug happened, and Kate, who would have made it to the other side of the loop, got downed like 4 meters away from me.
Do you know of a way to prevent this bug 100%?
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Lol one can get a good impression of 6 matches, no doubt. But it's also why I have made clear that I am not yet certain if Kaneki needs any further nerfs or not.
Also, I did play more than 6 matches with him, I said I played 6 matches with him since the newest update.
Also, Nemesis map control is still definitely weaker than Kaneki's in my opinion, just like his ability to get injures.
But as I said, if I continue to play Kaneki I'll keep seeing if these counterplay suggestions hold up or not, so far I am not sure.
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Yeah poor them, investing BPs in an S tier killer. How could they possibly recover.
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