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I did not sign up for a stressful PVP game to kill bots

Vaimore
Vaimore Member Posts: 16

Instead of dealing with the "go next" mentality, the devs have emboldened it. Now I spend my entire match against insufferably toxic bully squads just to kill bots in the end. Why is this a thing? If I am forced to watch them T bag me at the gates when they win, why are they not forced to watch themselves die when I win?

Comments

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716
    edited June 2025

    How is an endgame mori toxic exactly? Basically everyone finally agrees teabagging and sitting in the exit gates is toxic. People don't even bother to flimsily say "I just want to give a hit so the killer gets extra points, guyz!!!" like they used to

    I see where he's coming from though. You sit there playing against some trash can SWF trying to be as frustrating as possible. Constantly trying to Sabo, flashlight save, contest every down, shove every second chance perk in your face, but as soon as you fight through that and get the upper hand they can just bounce. It's very unsatisfying

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 2,117

    I don't think it's toxic. I was commenting on OP's concluding sentence:

    If I am forced to watch them T bag me at the gates when they win, why are they not forced to watch themselves die when I win?

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716

    I've seen streamers do this. They refuse to down the last person so that the other players that are slugged still get bled out

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716

    Wow your second paragraph sounds exactly like survivors sitting in the exit gates for the entire EGC so the killer can watch them teabag and run out. Almost like the devs should do something about that!

  • BlackRabies
    BlackRabies Member Posts: 1,339

    That is a good thing, but it's becoming a problem of it's own now the instant all 4 survivors are slugged they have the freedom to go next as a convenience time save to jump into the next match while the killer has to stay and clean up the match or the killer just leaves as well so the whole end game gets skipped completely. Maybe If anything, i would suggest making it active after everyone is slugged or dead and 10-30 seconds pass with no one getting hooked.

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716

    The devs also wanted to ensure teabagging was still satisfying when they changed survivor animations so they aren't interested in changing this for the sake of the killer. I already knew that

  • subdl
    subdl Member Posts: 38

    Here is my opinion, which I posted a while ago, regarding what I believe to be the most unpleasant and systemically unfair aspect in the entire history of DBD.

  • subdl
    subdl Member Posts: 38

    The core issue isn’t “slugging vs teabagging.”
    It’s the fundamental unfairness in the endgame experience:

    When survivors lose, they get to go-next instantly—leaving behind empty husks controlled by AI.
    But when killers win, they’re forced either to clean up the mess survivors left behind… or to abandon their victory entirely.

    In contrast, when survivors win, they’re granted by devs the full right to enjoy their victory with endless teabagging dances and flashlight clicks, all from the safety of the exit gate, until they’re ceremoniously escorted out by the killer they just defeated.

    Personally, I find this whole ritual hard to stomach. But apparently, some players manage to find joy in such pathetic loser routines—wandering around aimlessly, breaking leftover pallets, or politely seeing survivors off—all in the name of so-called “player agency.”
    That very term—“agency”—has been weaponized by some survivor-aligned players to justify what is clearly a broken and deeply unsatisfying gameplay imbalance.

    I’d genuinely like to hear the developers’ current thoughts on this dull and demoralizing endgame experience for killers.
    Unless, of course, they rarely play killer themselves and have simply never had to feel it firsthand—in which case, their continued tolerance of this design would at least be somewhat understandable.

  • Halloulle
    Halloulle Member Posts: 1,443

    OP looks at it from a not-constructive angle; "I feel something negative so I want the other side to feel something negative too". That's not helpful.

    That being said; while the devs cite agency and that's valid, I don't think there's any harm in giving killers the option to abandon once egc is triggered as a QoL and game health improvement. Because agency or not there's no reason to force either side to stick around when the match at that point is mostly about rubbing some salt into their wounds and kicking down.

  • XDgamer018
    XDgamer018 Member Posts: 716

    And you think its fun being constantly harrassed and basically scrutinized for simply losing a match? Sure we can oush them out but we still have to endure the tbaggs regardless after the stressfull matches. And yes killer is wayyy more stressfull then survivor can ever be

  • Linkdouken
    Linkdouken Member Posts: 681

    Endgame Collapse exists for these reasons. If survivors are intentionally waiting out the whole timer, use a killer that prevents them leaving when they are hit and run bloodwarden - they'll quickly be punished for not escaping when they had the chance

  • jokere98
    jokere98 Member Posts: 714

    except most of those killers work only if survivor is injured already, and even then can be easily countered by heal tech

  • Linkdouken
    Linkdouken Member Posts: 681

    True but what I'm saying if if it's that much of an annoyance- play it to your advantage, use a build for it. Terminus or Forced Penance for example will prevent them from being healthy if played correctly

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,269

    But apparently, some players manage to find joy in such pathetic loser routines—wandering around aimlessly, breaking leftover pallets, or politely seeing survivors off—all in the name of so-called “player agency.”

    Everyone refuses to admit that tea-bagging survivors at the exit gates, waiting for the killer to push them out like 5-years-old children is also a waste of time.

    Just because two things have some similarities doesn't mean they are the same. Just because two things are a problem, doesn't mean they are both a problem to the same degree.

    No one is saying they love the gameplay of going around and breaking pallets. No one is saying they love to see off the teabagging survivors.

    But those are things that exist. When comparing the level of the problem they need to be recognized. Being slugged was not just longer, it was far more pointless. Implementing a killer abandon is much trickier about where to draw the line

    Its why the comparison comes off as silly to so many people. It's an asym, the sides are different, and trying to draw direct comparisons frequently won't work.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 996

    I am in full support of an abandon mechanic being implemented into killer as long as the same thing happens when a survivor abandons as well— they are replaced by a bot.

    You mention the joy or satisfying feeling of victory for you personally gets taken away when survivors are replaced by bots. And while I don’t personally feel that way, I do empathize. But I hope then you could potentially see how being ejected into the end game screen for all players involved because 1 abandoned would also feel unsatisfying.

    The ability to abandon the match as a survivor and abandoning the match as a killer are two completely different outcomes. In one scenario, the person who abandoned is replaced with a bot, but it doesn’t change the status of the other 4 players game. They are free to remain in it, to play the rest of the match out. In the other scenario, the game just ends entirely. I understand wanting equality in terms of balancing features, but those do not give equal results.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,303

    Its not but slugging is like someone breaking your leg in marathon knowing you cant run, tbagging in exit is like spiting into your face form place they know you cant do anything about it.

  • GentlemanFridge
    GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 6,470
    edited June 2025

    I still don’t understand why people were so opposed to the finisher mori, when the abandon feature as it is currently implemented does more or less the same. Hell, the finisher mori was better at it, since it called the game for the killer as well.

  • hardrock
    hardrock Member Posts: 1

    Just a thought: opting to abandon the match is, by any definition, forfeiture of the match. So make it just that: a player who abandons the game is not replaced with a bot, but treated as a bleed out death. Since the survivor's player has quit the match, they forfeit the opportunity to make any last minute attempts to aid their team, and thus make a comeback for the others all the more difficult.

    Rage quitters leave early and can bother someone else. people stuck by a slugger can save the time instead of bleeding out normally, letting them get back in the game. Toxic Slugger's lose the fun of forcing players to wait. Competitive sluggers get bleed outs instead of hooks or moris, still giving them points for winning, but incentivises moving faster to hook or mori. And best of all, because this process rewards players who commit to matches by offering more chances at comebacks and better Hook/Mori odds, people who finish matches tier up faster, decreasing the odds of high rank abandons.

    Thoughts?

  • subdl
    subdl Member Posts: 38

    When survivors are subjected to inhumane treatment—like being slugged—they are, of course, granted the full right to leave the match instantly.
    The devs’ stance: “Oh, how sad. Don’t worry. Let’s make sure you don’t waste any more of your time. You can even skip the killer’s execution scene—it’s not worth sitting through, after all.”

    But when it comes to the mental strain placed on killers, the response is simply: “Addressing it would take effort—so let’s not. Just leave it as is. Who cares?”
    The devs’ stance: “Stop whining. You still have ‘agency’—you can move, can’t you? So either chase the survivors out yourself, or stare at a wall for two minutes. Your choice.”

    Because this is an asymmetrical game, viewpoints like mine—those that highlight this blatant double standard—are dismissed by so many “reasonable” players like you as nothing more than foolish and meaningless comparisons.

    So, is that a fair reflection of what you mean to say?

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,269

    This is just a strawman. Not a single thing you say here is actually responding to what I actually wrote.

    So, is that a fair reflection of what you mean to say?

    Sigh. I really should just say this is absurd and tell you to actually respond to what I wrote, but I'll try again.

    4 minutes with nothing to do is greater than 2 minutes with something to do.

    The inability to end the BMing (slugged) is worse than being able to end the BMing (push them out).

    All survivors down, hooked, or dead is a much clearer line to draw than the survivors at the exit gate. With the exit gate BHVR would have to draw a line on how far that survivors could just stand slightly farther away from.

    Fixing one thing is better than not fixing anything.

    Its an asym, so its a game of double standards. I wish I had 40 types of survivors so I could jump on and complain about how only 3 of them are actually worth playing.

    To sum up:

    If your argument is reliant upon a double standard, you need to engage with the double standard. The fact that people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are saying you are foolish and meaningless, they are saying they disagree and stating their reasons (in this case all of the clear differences between the two). State your reasons in response if you wish to continue the discussion.

    If your argument is that the devs are not dedicating the effort to solving your problems, and others respond with the difficulties of those problems, again, they aren't calling you foolish and meaningless. They are disagreeing, stating their reasons, and if you have disagreements you can respond to them if you wish.

    Or you could just put things that were never said in quotes. Nothing will move forward, nothing will be discussed, but strawman are always an easy argument to win.

  • subdl
    subdl Member Posts: 38

    You keep emphasizing the reasons why the abandon feature was implemented.
    But perhaps it’s time to confront the actual outcome it has produced in today’s endgame matches.

    Yes, the feature may have been added with good intentions—to protect survivors from prolonged slugging.
    But what has it really led to?

    Now, when survivors lose, they can instantly vanish—leaving behind an empty mess—while the killer is left to either clean up the bots or abandon the very match they just won.

    Meanwhile, when the killer loses, nothing has changed. They still have to endure a humiliating, miserable two-minute wait, forced to watch as survivors dance, flash their lights, and bask in the full glory of victory.
    Mercy for killers? A surrender option?
    Don’t be absurd—that would diminish the survivors’ sense of triumph!

    Is that truly a better outcome for the overall game experience?

    You seem to be saying: “Yes, it’s a double standard. But it’s hard to fix—anyway, slugged survivors are at least more deserving of pity than killers left to endure the humiliation of being treated like losers. So really, the current mechanic isn’t that bad. Just stop complaining and deal with it.”


    But if that’s not your view, then please be clear: What do you think about this experiential asymmetry?
    Are you genuinely okay with things staying this way?

  • Readycent
    Readycent Member Posts: 12

    Just to be clear, I don't think bagging is toxic -- I think going into the endgame chat and ######### talking after the game ends is toxic.

    I'm not clear what the problem is so I'd like to clarify: you're saying survivors should be forced to watch themselves die so you can embrace your win in their face, but you don't like how much better survivors play against you and bag you along the way. Did I get that right?

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,269

    What do you think about this experiential asymmetry?

    The whole game is asymmetrical. That's an awful place to approach it from. Is it good, or is it bad?

    Even if both experiences are equally bad (which again, they aren't, even if they are both bad), fixing one does not make the other any worse than it was before.

    Are you genuinely okay with things staying this way?

    There's lots of things I'm not okay with. Some I understand are almost impossible to fix, some I understand are that different players want different things on, and a few I think BHVR is wrong on.

    I think BHVR should do more to confronting bad manners and games that devolve into pointless gameplay. There are a few simple ideas I wish they would do, but I understand their are more complexities with most issues.

    I have no problem with the concept of killers being able to abandon, just like I have no problem with many concepts in the game such as reducing gen rush or broader anti-tunnel, but talking about a concept is much different than talking about an implementation.

    If they put a killer option in to abandon when the survivors are right at the exit line I'd be fine with it. I don't think it would have any overall impact, which gets to why it would be time on BHVR's part that wouldn't merit anything, but I'd be absolutely fine with it going in.

    If they want to expand on the entire idea of the abandon concept, sure, I'd probably support it as well, but that would be a substantial shift from their current view of the game.

    They are not the same, true. But both need to be acted on.

    Except then each issue needs to be talked about on its own.

    People don't like to be stuck in pointless games, but we all realize that it is inevitable in any multiplayer game there will be moments were it is inevitable. How long do people have to wait, how frequently does it occur, how much of a wait is it, and what other ramifications might fixing it have on the game?

  • subdl
    subdl Member Posts: 38

    Thank you for clearly answering my question—I now understand your position.

    To be honest, although I’ve long advocated for a “match abandonment” feature for killers, I had already resigned myself to the fact that such a function would probably never be implemented. As I’ve said before, allowing killers to surrender would inevitably disrupt the survivors’ sense of victory—just as survivor abandonments now undercut the killer’s sense of having won.
    I assumed BHVR understood this. I figured they were making a conscious tradeoff—valuing the survivors’ collective sense of fulfillment and convenience over the individual satisfaction of the killer.

    And yes, that’s frustrating for me, but no matter how strongly I disagreed with that design philosophy, it seemed clear (even from community manager comments) that they simply weren’t going to engage with viewpoints like mine. Their priorities were already set.

    But now, watching the current disaster around the AFK crow issue unfold, I couldn’t help but wonder: “Could it be that the devs haven’t actually thought any of this through at all? Might they just throw in ideas into the game—without seriously considering the broader consequences of their implementation?”

    At this point, I’ve started to enjoy something else entirely—not the game itself, but the chaos and bizarre logic that each new BHVR update manages to deliver.

    It’s like watching a live experiment where the devs test how far they can go without thinking things through.