As a Killer who doesn't tunnel/camp/use slowdown perks, I only have 56% Kill Rate

So… you were just being facetious.

I mean, I posted my own stats here as well. I got an-above average killrate as it turns out, and I don't tunnel either, so that last bit seems a touch dramatic.

What? No, the opposite. My killrate is at 73% without tunnelling. That's pretty good, I'd say.

So, if I were to tunnel, that would go even higher. For a while, at least, until my MMR has settled.

For the record, I have no objections against slugging (that isn't longer than it has to be), and camping is fair game to me in the endgame.

It's not sabotaging the KR. He's just proving that you do not NEED to tunnel to keep a good kill rate.

"if killers should sabotage their kill rate for the sake of survivor fairness, then why aren't survivors expected to sabotage their escape rate for the sake of killer fairness".

Because escape rates are low, whereas killrates, as intended, are high. But once again, it's not sabotaging. It's simply realizing that tunneling, which is absolutely not needed to win, is just a way to make the game easier.

And there is something EVEN MORE IMPORTANT that killer-only players do not realise: feelings. It's just not fun to sit on a hook and spectate most of the game, only to get targeted once you can finally PLAY the game you PAID for. Do you think BHVR wants people to have fun or to ditch the game?

None of the things you listed on the survivor side are nearly as problematic or complained about as tunneling and camping. Comparing tunneling and camping to something like flashlight saves or bodyblocking is quite the stretch.

If people care about the fun of survivors, then let them. Who cares if their kill rate could be higher otherwise. If anything it just shows how problematic tunneling and camping are if you can achieve kill rates far above 60% with them.

But then I have to ask why you care?

I have always despised pursuing ‘optimal’ play, in every game I play. I’m just here to have a good time, not sweat my balls off.

I'm not sure if it's a double standard, due to the assymetry of the game. Tunnelling is something any killer player can choose to do from the jump and have it determine the match outcome, whereas flashlight saves are singular occurences, and obviously require a flashlight. Pallet saves are quite rare in my experience. Bodyblocking is the best comparison, but you'd already have to be losing for a succesful bodyblock to influence the match outcome.

For the fake internet points. That's all this thread is. It's virtue signaling so that they can get head pats from the mostly survivor playerbase on the forums.

What do you want survivors to do, though? Should they only ever do gens?

Wait, are survivors complaining about being on hook now? Are we not even allowed to hook anymore?

That's just… part of the game. Survivor has long periods of down time, whether that means working a gen, getting slugged for pressure, or getting hooked. That's part and parcel. If you want to always be doing something and have the ability to always see a match out to its conclusion, then there's a role that will let you do that.

That is not an answer to my question.

What does survivor gameplay look like without using any of the strats you find unfair?

This is still not an answer to my question. You're coming at it from the angle of 'what's not allowed', whereas I'm asking you 'what's left'. But, I'll humour it anyway.

1: Annoying, sure, but unfair? Hardly. This isn't even possible basekit, either.

2: You might have an argument if you're referring to specific builds and coordinated strategies, but pallet saves in general are not what I'd call 'unfair'. Game sense is important here.

3: Again, annoying, yes, but hardly unfair. Also not possible basekit.

4: This one I might agree with on a conceptual level, but again I ask how often this influences a match to the same degree tunneling does.

5: Coming at it from a pure fairness angle, yes. But this is a video game, and people play with friends for fun. Besides, the people who use comms for an explicit advantage aren't all too relevant, since that's a different kind of player than we're talking about here.

6: That's what the AFK crows are for, heavy-handed as they are rn.

Sure, you're supposed to be the victim. But both roles make things happen to the other side. That's why people are complaining about bully SWFs. But a player shouldn't be able to force you into spectate mode for most of the game just because it's the "easier way to win".

If you go back a bit on this thread, you'll see that I'm a Legion main with +70% KR…

Nobody cares about MMR. It's an invisible number. Tying MMR to hooks won't change anything. People care about winning. They care about earning BP. And they care about not getting bagged at the gates. That's what they care about.

You can stop them from doing it… by killing them. If you 4k, you don't get bagged at the gates.

I really don't want to sound like an arse but I don't think the question I asked was that difficult. You're still coming at it from the wrong direction.

I don't need a list. I want you to tell me how you imagine survivor gameplay, if they play 'fair' according to you. 'Cause from how I understand it, 'fair gameplay' as you define it looks like a solo queue'r who's sticking to gens at all times. I'm asking you to tell me how I'm wrong here.

I'm trying to establish what the equivalent to a killer deciding not to tunnel is, in so far that actually exists.

Nobody likes to lose at Mario Party. Just like nobody likes to lose at anything lol.

Apparently you've never seen someone lose at Monopoly lol.

To be fair, I wouldn't say it is a double-standard. DBD is asymmetrical, meaning the two roles are different, they have different experiences and perceive the match differently.

The killer role has three strategies (slugging, camping, and tunneling) that are frowned upon by the community, seeing as they basically prevent those who are targeted by them from playing the game. The survivor side doesn't really have an equivalent to those strategies… or, well, not anymore.

Gen-rush used to be considered the equivalent, iirc. Not the modern DBD "gen-rush", but the pre-nerf toolboxes gen-rush which, to be fair, is no longer possible to do in the exact same way it was.

To be fair, 3-gen situations only became problematic once they were allowed to reach an extreme level with the gen kick meta, and survivors have the agency to avoid those.

There is no agency against being tunneled, if the killer decides to eliminate you ASAP there is little you can do about it.