Just Apply Pressure? Healing Meta
Would absolutely love to hear how you're supposed to deal with this when they're healing in 3 seconds and absolutely slamming gens. You can't split pressure because they just heal in 4 seconds flat non-stop. Someone tell me a strategy that isn't proxy camp the hook/hard tunnel so they can't heal in 2 seconds or a suggestion that isn't Just Play Blight.
Healing speeds are absolutely absurd right now
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Sloppy helps, but not much
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Same way you delt with it years ago. You keep swinging.
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counter perks.
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I mean, you'd still be out there chasing a third survivor while they're healing, so you're still spreading pressure. It is weaker if they heal that quickly, though- Resurgence is particularly good at lessening hook pressure in that way.
(Though, while I'm about to help, I do want to point out only one of the survivors in that screenshot can heal in 3/4 seconds, the Ace running Resurgence)
If you're seeing this very frequently, I'd probably recommend keeping a counter perk or two in your build. I wouldn't recommend necessarily something like Sloppy Butcher or Leverage though, I'm pretty sure those numbers break down to not really matter too much in this context.
Rather, the perk I want to highlight the most is Gift of Pain, which I believe is now called Weeping Wounds. On top of it slowing down the heal and providing some progress loss via Haemorrhage, it also punishes them for healing up by slapping a genuinely noticeable repair penalty on them until they're injured again.
That's the perk I personally actually use, but off the top of my head I can think of a few other potentially helpful tools.
- Coulrophobia is probably the only perk I'd recommend that just slows healing down, since it also messes with the skillcheck needle and that throws a LOT of players off. Downside, obviously, is that they need to be in your terror radius, so killer/build/map specific.
- Deathbound punishes the healing action by incurring Oblivious on the healer if they split up. Not great, but not nothing.
- Any source of Broken that lasts a while (especially via addons) is useful here. Can't heal if you can't heal, y'know?
- Exposed helps cut down on it mattering that they're healthy, if you're playing a killer that can reliably capitalise on it.
- In a small way chase perks help here because it minimises the extra time in chase the extra health state brings, which helps you keep the pressure up easier.
Resurgence is very good, and the lesser healing builds are also pretty potent, but you do have answers. I'm probably forgetting a few, even.
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Down them? You were playing Spirit against a single chase perk and no Iron Will.
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The problem is, instead of the after hook heal taking 16 seconds, it takes 6. Less, if they have Resurgence.
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Yeah? That's what I'm responding to.
Well, eight seconds, and only if Bill gets the unhook. Then Ace heals stupid quick, and the other two can self heal at reasonable speeds but nothing crazy.
That's just that screenshot, though, my suggestions were broader than just that.
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There's no counter to resurgence providing 2-3 second heals off of hook. Leverage, the perk that LITERALLY nerfs healing when they're fresh off a hook, is completely unnoticeable. If the killer perk specifically designed to counter heals off a hook… is completely garbage against heals off a hook. Then yea, I'm going to out on a limb and say there isn't actually much counterplay to it.
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in times of great need I go back to Tombstone.
coh? Tombstone.
boil over? Tombstone.
mft? yup, Tombstone.
I gotta say, giving back a gigabuffed Botany with no rollback on Sloppy+Hemorrhage is an interesting choice.
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I agree that GoP is the only healing slowdown that is genuinely worth running atm. Make them choose between being injured and slower gens. The problem is, they can wait out the hemorrhage and 99 a heal, but nothing's perfect and most survivors aren't going to do that.
Honestly, the best slowdown right now is quick downs, just like it's always been. Yeah, the survivors are always going to be healthy ten seconds after they get off hook, but if your downs are fast enough, it doesn't matter. That's why I've kind of stopped playing Xeno and Knight and focused more on Billy, Kaneki, Dracula and mostly Spirit. I suck with Blight, and hate the Nurse's playstyle, but using the rest of the S and A+ tier killers means you can get downs fast enough to keep up… most of the time.
I truly believe that the best build atm is Lethal/Corrupt, Agi, PR and GoP.
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There are so many ways to slow down the game. It doesn’t even have to be a 1 for 1. There’s over a 100 perks in this game. There’s basically counterplay to everything in this game if you search hard enough on either side.
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that's the neat part you don't. i was running do no harm since it's busted it's now even worse with botany
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Yeah, I remember them nerfing Mangled and Hemorrhage as a result of destroying the old CoH meta. Now they revert the healing meta, but not the other stuff. They do that a lot. They'll nerf one side as a consolation for a nerf to the other side, then undo the original nerf and leave the consolation nerf.
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Oh for sure you can slowdown in other ways, but when it comes to resurgence? There is zero counter to it, outside of proxy camping the hook.
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I remember them explicitly saying they wanted injuries to be more meaningful and allow the killer to slow the game down with injures rather than camping tunneling. Then they proceeded to giga buff Resurgence first then a bunch of other healing perks. I think the devs just throw darts at the wall at ideas and have no coherent vision for the game
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If you truly think that given the lengthy amount of combinations you can string together not only in perks but also killers and their addons, you honestly have bigger fish to fry than if they’re healing fast.
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I wouldn't go that far, other anti-heal perks do just fine against healing in general, and self-healing via medkit and the like. It's specifically Resurgence (and to a lesser degree We'll Make It) they struggle to counter, which GoP/WW is especially well suited to handle.
See above: Gift of Pain/Weeping Wounds is a good counter, and others do exist in their own way.
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Please. Go ahead and tell me what counters survivors coming off the hook immediately with 70% progress, outside of proxy camping the hook so they can't heal at all.
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I think they play the game at a very low level and have kneejerk reactions to things. They also cave to public pressure too easily. I'm still salty that they essentially deleted a killer (and cosmetics) I paid money for because some survivors whined about her.
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What map were you on?
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Eyrie of Crows
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Hemorrage + Leverage is a counter for Resurgence. Due to the unhook delay that happens (basically when you can't heal someone off hook), hemmorage will take their bar usually down to 50% before they start the heal, then leverage adds a 50% heal penalty onto the unhooker + the mangled debuff if it's something like gift of pain.
It's a bit overkill but it can have good results if you interrupt them since then resurgence will be completely wasted.
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So proxy camp the hook so they can't heal? Don't even need two anti healing perks for that. I can just use No Way Out/Deadlock to help with camping/tunneling instead
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"Never stop slashin' "
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Rough.
Was the Ace a TTV?
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Yes but with normal resurgence and potential healing perks from the unhooker, you'll still be eating 2 heal states. Maybe more if you factor in anti-tunnel perks
Plus my post is specific counters for resurgence itself. Camp with no way out and deadlock if you want it's your game lol
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I mean idk who is teaching you these things but survivors with or without resurgence that are good and coordinated are going to eat this Strat for breakfast lunch and dinner. Because I’ll just be honest with you, you’re going to get genrushed. It honestly only carries you so far playing like that. I’d start there.
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A very small viewership one. The map could have been another one with hard to hear footsteps like Borgo. It was the first game I played before I switched over to Springtrap to play him instead, so I don't really remember that well. I was annoyed that hit and run basically doesn't work anymore. I'd have done better just camping and hard tunneling the first person
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I would go that far. I see two Botany's a match these days. That reduces a Mangled heal from 20 seconds to just under 13 seconds. You're only gaining 2.5 seconds per heal using something like Sloppy Butcher from just Botany alone. Broken is a really rare status ailment, and Coulrophobia is really only viable on a handful of killers with extra large TR's. Most survivors aren't healing within TR unless they absolutely have to.
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Think we played against the same guy lol. Was running the same set up against me
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I thought you didn't play anymore?
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I agree about coulrophobia being lackluster.
Quite sad that It's main use case these days is purely for slugging. I run it on Twins for example to try and counter any potential WGLF/heal gamers since Twins are absolutely decimated by heal builds.
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I once saw someone trying to heal through a Wesker running Sloppy, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, and Distressing with naked Self Care lol
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Was challenged to play to prove something
Post edited by Pulsar on1 -
coulrophobia is dependant on a large TR but a good level too; id actually consider going back to it but you can't even throw up a Game offering. the map dependency and lack of consistency as a result makes it too much like Boons
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Tell me you go into matches planning to tunnel without saying you go into matches planning to tunnel.
The counter is to hit them twice again or go hit someone else. I remember a time when healing was so sluggish and miserable survivors didn’t bother doing it. Now with smaller maps and a good number of killers that can be on any gen they want in moments things have to move faster to not make solo queue matches overly oppressive to survivor games.
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Who said anything about tunneling??? Do you think the complaint of 2-3 second heals off of hook is exclusive to someone who wants to tunnel?
Did it ever cross your mind that maybe I dislike it because it removes the entire passive slowdown of healing, which then leads to more time on gens, which then leads to faster gen completions?
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In regards to the OP’s question:
When I have a group of survivors who seem like they’re blowing through gens fast and I’m not securing many hooks due to what seems to be coordinated saves, I’ll just switch to slugging until I have enough of them down that they don’t have a choice but to stop gens. If I have a few of them down, then I’ll hook - I’m not looking to make the match miserable for anyone, just really disincentivize staying on that gen. I guess they COULD stay on gens, but that’s just handing me a 3K.
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I once was playing Wraith with an anti-heal build + Nurse's calling on Midwich (before the mangled nerf) and watched someone's aura take a full 2 minutes to heal with self care. I felt just a little bad when I went over, immediately injured them again, and then went off to chase their teammates
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In addition to what people have mentioned, you could play Plague. Or an insta down killer.
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Nothing has changed about Healing other than that one Felix Perk and even that sucks for Healing. Almost seems like now that Map Offerings have been gutted the goalpost has been moved.
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If you slug/tunnel/and camp because you have to in order to win, then youre artificially boosting mmr which means youre punishing yourself in the long run.
So i would recommend you try a different build, you have a very basic "works for everyone" build but doesnt really increase spirits power. I mained spirit for a long time and here are my two builds i get good results with:
Build 1:
Undying
Devour Hope
Surge
Surveilance
Youre basically downing them so fast that they cant function. Even if youre losing at first the devour hope will change the tides quick
Build 2:
STBFL
Pop foes the weasel
Surge
Surveilance
STBFL is nice because i can catch of to them faster while using my power.
Build 3:
This is my balls to the wall build REALLY strong on Kaneki.
Friends till the end (aura and exposed)Lethal pursuer (aura and aura length)
BBQ and Chili (aura)
Hex: Blood favor (no pallets for you!)
Addons:
I pretty much stick with Rusty Flute and the Muddy sports day cap cuz i cant be bothered to read the other addons.
Explanation for some perks:You use it so yyou know its nice for slowdown without wasting time. With Surveilence and of the gens surge break will turn yellow the moment they start to fix it, allowing you to cut em off and find em. If the do it close to you while youre in chase, you can fake look away the phase to the gen. i get a lot of yoinks that way.
I basically prioritize her speed rather than gen slowdown and go full blitz making them feel too unsafe or pressured to even need dedicated gen perks0 -
Botany Knowledge was buffed for self heals with the removal of the negative to medkit charges. It can make self healing alot less painful. I don't feel it has the impact others claim though.
Desperate Measures isn't bad by any means. In the worst case scenario it's plus 20% to healing and unhook speeds. More often than not it'll be 40% or higher whenever it gets used.
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For any survivors reading this, if you’re going up against a bunch of proxy camping even when using resurgence ensure you also bring Made For This so you can tank a hit when they come right back and slap you. Now anyone running resurgence is healed and you don’t have to be down a health state just trying to get your team away for the hook.
“I did not come here to be robot food” - Gabriel Soma
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Still Weeping Wounds/Gift of Pain. The Hemorrhage removes around 20% of the healing progress, since you cannot heal immediatly after the Unhook. It is even more if the other Survivor does not start healing right away (in general, if they dont heal within 3 or 4 seconds the progress is completely gone). The Mangled also give you time to go back to the hook - not even to tunnel, but also to remove the progress.
@Topic:
Scott Jund talks about it in this video, I timestamped the healing part. And the changes are not really that impactful, people claim that Botany Knowledge got gigabuffed, but it really did not. I would also say that a game with 3 Botany Knowledges is really an outlier. Resurgence = weeping wounds, also mentioned in the video.
But this only applies if you want to actually hear arguments and not just claim that you lose because of the >current thing<. After you lost games because of Duty of Care. Or Shoulder the Burden. Or whatever was >current thing< before that.
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How dare surviviors to have a chance against a spirit? Right?
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The balancing is all over the place. Remember when they were gonna increase the base healing time to make hits feel more impactful but reverted due to backlash. Now they've buffed a lot of perks that increase healing speed. Need to make their mind up, does injuring a survivor feel impactful enough? Cause they already told us in past it doesn't. Throw darts at the dartboard and see what perks it lands on, coz it sure seems like it when perks like Botany are getting buffed when there are dozens of perks that are literal dog meat.
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To be fair, they reverted that part because the other stuff changed in that update just wholly fixed the problem. Nerfing medkits and reworking CoH made injuries feel impactful again, because survivors couldn't heal themselves in eight seconds multiple times a match.
The extra buffs are also primarily levelled at altruistic healing perks, which further cements the idea that speedy heals should be less efficient overall.
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So the counter is a scourge hook you can't probably won't even be able to realistically apply all of the time. Because scourge hooks aren't guaranteed… cmon man.
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