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The big question with The Knight (9.1.0)

So I keep having a question come into my head when ever I think about any of the Knight changes we've got:

What is The Knight supposed to be good at?

Because I can't think of a good answer, every major change he's gotten has removed opportunities and limited his agency, with the only buffs being to just how he engages with his power? As in, he can draw faster! He can choose specific guards to best suit his current needs! He can cancel guards to reposition them on a shorter cooldown! But these conveniences are all in service of what?

What is The Knight supposed to be good at?

Is it pincer tactics? Well no, definitely not, pincer tactics have been routinely buffed, again and again with each change, even this most recent update. Firstly take basic kiting, a tactic tried and true since the ancient years of Call of Duty Zombies: Nacht der Untoten, simply pathing in such away that the knight and the guard are both behind you largely nullifies any advantage of having a guard. But if that wasn't enough, dropping pallets, tagging window vaults and dropped pallets also gives you more flexibility in your pathing to make kiting even easier. But to be honest, tagging vaults is pretty abstract and unintuitive, even with particle effects that directly telegraph, not everyone's going to know what those particle effects are trying to tell them. So now if the Knight is too close to the guard, the guard just instantly turns to dust and dies, literally nullifying the power and limiting the Knight's ability to do pincer tactics. But I guess not even that was enough because Knights started using jailers to do pincer tactics due to his increased chase time, so let's make the banner more accessible and spawn sooner, so that survivors who are being pincered have another option to protect themselves. So clearly, The Knight isn't really supposed to be good at pincer tactics.

What is The Knight supposed to be good at?

Maybe it's his ability to delegate tasks to his guards. Perhaps there's a survivor on a nearby generator but you're already in a chase with a survivor and you got them on the ropes, you could quickly draw a path over to that gen to try to scare the survivors away and keep them busy while you focus on your target, but no not really, if you send Assassin, who has the best chance of getting a hit, his banner now spawns faster and can be nullified faster, limiting his ability to distract and damage, and even if the survivor pulls the chase far from the banner, rendering it irrelevant, the aforementioned vault tagging is even more effective when The Knight himself isn't involved and it's even easier to kite a guard around a single vault until the hunt expires, you could even just fast vault it yourself, no abstract and confusing tagging required! If you send the jailer, well you might hold their time longer but not get a hit but no, now the standard spawns quickly so survivors being pestered by the jailer alone can easily kite the guard and grab the standard, nullifying it's main chase strength of his long duration, that only leaves the Carnifex to help you multitask, but he's the worst of both worlds, low speed and low max chase time, survivors really don't even need to bother with the standard because by the time it spawns the hunt will end on it's own. Plus, you really want to keep the Carnifex to yourself anyway for his fantastic pallet breaking speeds. So clearly, The Knight isn't really supposed to be good at delegating chases to other survivors.

What is The Knight supposed to be good at?

Well he is pretty good when survivors pre-drop pallets, assuming the knight isn't foolishly wasting the Carnifex on pointless chases that wont accomplish anything, he can use it to break the pallet about as fast as he can walk up to it, which often times can secure a hit, but even this is contextual and not guaranteed if another piece of safety is nearby, or if the survivor smartly calls your bluff and greeds the pallet. So while this is a strength The Knight has over other killers it has a lot of depth and isn't a hook line and sinker. But maybe, just maybe, the Knight is supposed to be good at breaking predropped pallets, on a cooldown, if there's nothing else the survivor can use in time, if they don't call your bluff, if the map isn't too tight to prevent you from using your power to begin with, if you don't get to close to the pallet as it drops, also blocking you from using your power. So honestly, The Knight is supposed to be kind of good at situationally breaking pallets that are dropped at just the right time and from the right angle.

But really this entire discussion has been a waste of time, because I KNOW what The Knight is good at this whole time, and I've good the video evidence right here.
This is the strongest situation The Knight can POSSIBLY find himself in.

In this one laboratory room in The Underground Complex, when then gen is inside it and unrepaired to keep the door closed, it is the best place The Knight can find himself in.

  • Transparent floors, so his guards can detect from anywhere in the room.
  • One entrance, so The Knight can body block it easily.
  • Lots of space, to give the survivors the illusion that they can play around something within it.

Absolutely fantastic, THIS is what The Knight is clearly supposed to be good at. No other killer could get results like this.
Not even The Nurse or The Blight, who have to move out of the doorway to attack the survivor.
Not The Huntress, The Trickster, or The Deathsliger, who can't attack through the floor.
Only The Knight can, bay-beeeee. However, with that said, it should be considered that the survivors even in this clip did still have some counter play, that being just for the healthy survivor to toss any respect for the killer or their power out the window and just force herself through the doorway through me. She'll lose a health state but she'd get out of this room, forcing me to either chase her for the injured survivor to escape the room, or for me to keep the injured survivor trapped so she can go regroup. This is of course because if a guard hunts a survivor, they lose collision with The Knight, so I couldn't leverage this room to force a double hit, she'd have some opportunity to escape from this best-case situation for The Knight, because, as it turns out.

The Knight is NOT supposed to be good at trapping survivors in rooms.

Thank you for reading my story I hope I made my point clear that I just feel like BHVR themselves don't actually know what these Knight is supposed to do, and just keeps nerfing him while supplementing this quality of life changes as if QOL is a supplement to a power that actually gives the killer a tangible and intuitive advantage, and creates a fulfilling fantasy experience. I really think BHVR has to decide that the Knight needs to be good at SOMETHING, and that something is most likely not something survivors enjoy playing against, because The Knight's core fantasy, A powerful leader to a team of devoted followers, is not going to be something survivors enjoy.

I do really enjoy playing The Knight, to be clear, it's just when ever I play him I find myself in many situations where I ask, aren't killer powers supposed to help me? and I always get the feeling any time my killer power does help me, I didn't need the power, that is, I feel comfortable in saying If I just didn't use my killer power at all I could have gotten the basic attack on that particular survivor. But when ever a survivor is clever, and puts up a challenge, they can easily handle my killer power as well. It just feels like The Knight would be better off with his power button unbound then actually trying to use his power to give him any leverage in those kinds of situations.

Comments

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,304

    Idk devs created killer that exceled in ways they dont want in the game like pincer,zoning,tunneling (knight is one of the best tunnelers in my opinion) and he is still weak as hell. They changed his power for more multitask and to be harraser instead of picer antilooper but they forgot guards need some speed because they need to have chance to hit too or take very long time from survivor atleast 30 seconds to be solid power and not just noob slayer.

    Playing with him against good survivors on maps like garden of joy (garden that still many players dont enjoy) with busted main where everybody can solo his guard with ease is just stupid and then they not only nerfing hell out of weak killers like knight but now clown too for some reason. I starting to believe most of dev team got coulrophobia at least they are buffing pig but most buffs to her kit like 24m terror radius are just adjustments for what they took her long time before.

  • Cetren
    Cetren Member Posts: 1,068

    I have the same confusion as you. Knight's power is not lacking counterplay given he completely loses collision. The only time that the pincer attacks even matter is if you're injured, and Knight is far from being the best killer at taking advantage of a survivor being injured. Its already easy to either hold W or eat the M1 and completely reset the chase. Banners spawning so quickly makes it disadvantageous to stay and chase with a guard and it makes it meaningless to snipe with guards from farther away too. Sure jailor has a super long chase and banner spawn time, if they want to adjust that a bit thats fine. Otherwise, not a big fan of this change.

  • Rapid99
    Rapid99 Member Posts: 326

    They need to just completely remove this whole standard spawning mechanic and just decrease hunt times to compensate. Guaranteed value even if weaker, is so much better than a killer power that is essentially in the hands of the survivors to just completely disable COUGH COUGH SADAKO COUGH COUGH

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Yep, that is the big question.

    The character was reworked to remove double team scenarios, which means the Knight shouldn't work alongside his guards. But if the Knight cannot work alongside his guards, then they need to be a threat: their AI needs to be precise, they need to get hits, they need to keep survivors busy.

    However, if the Knight is supposed to work with his guards and go for double team pincer attacks, then they don't need to be as effective because the Knight himself is the threat.

    The problem, is that option 1 was chosen, but the guards are not effective enough for that to be viable, especially after these recent changes. That doesn't mean you will lose every match you play as Knight, of course, but the power isn't structured the way it should be, in my opinion.

  • snowyhans
    snowyhans Member Posts: 97

    Holy ######### this post is so true because I literally DO just play nemesis instead XD

  • snowyhans
    snowyhans Member Posts: 97

    You raise a really good point and I think that feedback into my thesis question, What is the Knight supposed to be good at? because like-
    Let's just hypothetically say you're playing Wesker, there's only one survivor and the entire map is a single tile that just consists of a large circle of waist high cover.
    I don't care who you are, or how many hug techs you have, Wesker's power is not going to be useful in the slightest in this situation, if you continuously failed to use the killer power over and over again you would waste a lot of time, and reset your bloodlust a ton, compared to just toughing it out and going for the basic attack.

    But anyone who's played Wesker enough to be proficient at him would know that. Instead wesker players know to use their power in straightaways where your dash wont be obscured, (or use hug techs, yada yada, generalizing). These are situations where Wesker is supposed to be good.

    So again I ask, when is The Knight supposed to be good? Because if you keep using the Knight's power, and it feels like you're wasting your time, or you're being punished for using it incorrectly. You must not be using it in the situation it's supposed to be good. And so if it's not all the times I've tried to use the power, when am I supposed to? Because frankly unless the survivors respect my bluff that I have a good killer power and find themselves trapped in a room with one entrance and they're all injured. I really can't recall a situation.

  • Zuiphrode
    Zuiphrode Member Posts: 540

    opening the gate for the survs to leave after politely standing under every pallet, evidently