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I feel like BHVR really doesn't understand Macro-play in DBD

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Comments

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,960

    You can't really pressure 4 people at once as single Killer. Unless you're completely dominating all the chase, there'll always be someone on gen.

    I mean, you certainly can. And they've made chase so much simpler over the years that it's not even as hard as it used to be. I will readily admit that it's not easy, and requires you to be efficient at all aspects of killer: not just chase, but game sense, game knowledge, situational awareness, information, and effective use of your kit.

    You're entirely correct with 1 in chase, 1 on hook, 1 going for rescue/recovery, and 1 on a gen. That's what effective map pressure looks like.

    But compare that to hard camping and tunneling: one on hook, 2 on gens and 1 who can likely greed gen progress before going for rescue. So until you get that first person out, you're leaving the rest of the team largely to their own devices and they can do whatever they want.

    If they are efficient, playing with experience, and even remotely coordinated (which doesn't necessarily mean SWF), they will use their time to "gen rush".

    Which is why we see so many "gens fly" complaints. Because instead of having map pressure (and utilizing a wide variety of skills) and only 1 person on gens, people take a risk of using RNG and chase skill only to race 2-3 survivors. If you got lucky and found the weak link, and can get 3 hooks before the survivors finish about 4 gens, then you win. It's a simple formula, but doesn't rely on nearly as much mastery of the killer role.

    To bring this back to what I said before: gens aren't the goal, and it's a resource the killer can spend. If you are just allowing the survivors to do whatever they want, then your only method of slowing down the game is things like slowdown perks or base kit abilities.

    But map pressure by itself is already a huge amount of slowdown. Instead of 2-3 on gens, you have at most 1. maybe 0 if you can get a quick enough down to have 2 on hook, where the game is forced to stop for recovery.

    That's at least 50% slowdown, maybe 67-100% depending on what circumstance we're comparing.

    And even with the power of tunneling, if you aren't efficient at the chase part, you can still lose, and you basically have nothing to fall back on except screaming at the devs to buff you.

  • jedimaster505
    jedimaster505 Member Posts: 287

    they got 4kd no matter what rhetoric you want to provide. those 4 gens took too long for any of them survive, let that sink in.

  • ChuckingWong
    ChuckingWong Member Posts: 1,263

    Okay well I disagree that the survivors in this game are "bad" or "low MMR" or "######" and the gameplay seems to agree with it.

    The way you describe these survivors and the fact that 1 generator was remaining, 4 people were alive, and only 3 hook stages from the killer are not consistent.

    These were pretty decent opponents in a otherwise great match

  • ChuckingWong
    ChuckingWong Member Posts: 1,263

    They also didnt even get 4ked too so I dont know why you are saying that either.

  • CrossTheSholf
    CrossTheSholf Member Posts: 867

    Honestly it just sounds like you aren't very good at the game judging by your complaints

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 7,320
    edited July 15

    That's kind of how the game is designed though. The idea isn't to completely stagnate the survivor objective, it's to apply enough pressure to slow it down. One person on a gen should be the best case scenario. Last time we had a stagnate survivor objective was during the old Eruption gen kick era, and the devs stepped in to fix that. Probably why the devs are also currently looking to implement anti-tunnelling, for the exact reason you just stated. Probably why they first implemented anti-stealth and anti-go next and tightened the AFK crows to ensure survivors engage with their objectives before seeing how far they need to tackle tunnelling.

  • SpringMyTrap
    SpringMyTrap Member Posts: 752
    edited July 15

    yeah, thats great but this should go both ways.

    if killers arent meant to stop surv objective in its tracks until the very end, then survs shouldnt have a period when their objective can be done at triple speed.

    so far we only care about killer's side of the snowball and about their ability to gain momentum and preserve it, but somehow no basekit changes to tune down survivors' ability to abuse their early game momentum.

    and dont bring up spawn changes, not only they can be bypassed with a single offering, they are also disproportionately less efficient against high tier killers than low tier killers who struggle with keeping up with survivors even despite having all the ways of stopping their objective. before most killers reach survs on most maps, they would've scattered around already.

    it's really disheartening how every concern like that killers have is answered with effectively a nerf to solo q and buff to high tier killers neither of which are what killers struggle with and would rather have tuned down / equalized instead.

  • jedimaster505
    jedimaster505 Member Posts: 287

    I'm a seasoned veteran with thousands of hours, been playing since 2016. in basically a killer mains worst night mare cause I tell it how it is 😂

  • Orvarihusklumpen
    Orvarihusklumpen Member Posts: 284

    Isn't Arinad also the player that made a 200-page guide for Clown and wins like 98% of his matches but instantly calls survivors OP and busted when they win?

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,748

    Going into micro oriented killers is imo not a bad decision, as they are widely loved compared to macro oriented killers. Dont get me wrong erasing the already macro killers is bad yes, but why would you as a bussiness make a product that you know will sell badly and that your customers have already told you very vocally they dislike?

    Thats like having an ice cream shop and seeing that almost all your customers love fruit flavors, however 4 people really like exotic flavors, while you can still sell those people what they like, investing on creating exotic flavors rather than fruit ones is bad for bussiness.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 925
    edited July 16

    Not having too much to say about the changes as i'm not in the loop right now, but just wanting to say your list doesn't really work for me.

    Wraith: Definitely not just micro, a good Wraith doesn't commit to chase unless he wants to lose the game. You have to keep an eye on their injured states, find good ways to approach to get a hit without having to run through pallet city. Its not just braindead cloak-find surv-uncloak-hit-repeat. He is a very versatile killer but i would put him in micro-leaning at least

    Spirit: In order to win with her you need to play territorial. Find a good 3 gen and hook people there. She is really dependent on that because she has low mobility (you need your power to chase, otherwise they mess around with you). Besides that, you need to recognize stealth perks and remember the survs with them, also some survs are quieter then others. You can't just turn your brain off and chase like some people think. Could still be micro heavy, but i would say micro leaning, because her power is chase-based in the end.

    Ghostface: definitely macro leaning or macro heavy. You have to manage your stalks, stalk people for later and leave them, try to stay in power etc., not a micro killer! You don't want to chase with this killer, but approach from behind.

    Plague: She is definitely macro. Not only do you have to infect gens, pallets, vaults etc., but you have to manage your fountains which can make or break your match. You also have to decide if you want to chase or just infect someone. Many decisions to make.

    On the other side - Dredge, Artist and Freddy are not macro heavy (or at least not more macro heavy than others). Looking out for nightfall or blocked lockers isn't really that much of a task and happens on the fly. Artist? She can send birds far away to gens or hooks but what is macro about that? She doesn't need to manage much and 90% of her power is pure anti-loop. I dunno much about new Freddy, only played against him so far but i wouldn't say he doesn't require that much macro either, as his powers are chase/stealth/stalling focused and mostly passive.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Well, friend, I think then it comes down to a matter of preference. It is good for those who enjoy micro-oriented killers and bad for those who prefer macro-oriented killers. It is still very unfortunate for those who prefer macro killers, as very few new releases, if any, will be enjoyable.

    However, just like you said, the killers who are already macro shouldn't get their identity erased. Freddy went through it. Skull Merchant is risking it, though thankfully the disapproval is being demonstrated loud and clear. Trapper and Hag have yet to be targeted, but they could be. And, honestly, I don't think this is acceptable.

  • ControllerFeedback
    ControllerFeedback Member Posts: 565
    edited August 4

    This thread came to mind when thinking about the Streetwise bug and how it hasn't been killswitched. Apparently gens being done twice as fast due to infinite/near infinite toolboxes doesn't completely screw with the game at a macro level enough. Or maybe the OP was right.