http://dbd.game/killswitch
What's with the community's disdain for "dash-slop" Killers?
Been seeing this term fly around here and there and it makes me confused as to why all of a sudden some people now have it out for killers who go fast. Are there a lot of Killers who dash in the game? Yeah, I'd say so. Are there also a lot of ranged power Killers? Definitely, but I don't hear anyone coining the term "range-slop."
Fun is subjective and everyone's got their own perspective, but I gotta say from all my hours of playing DBD and participating in this community it seems like statistically not only are dash killers the most popular in the game, but compared to every other archetype, are seen as the most fun to go up against and to play as. Some dash killers are definitely more flawed then others, like Kaneki and Chucky, but on the other hand you have near flawless Killers like Blight, Hillbilly, Oni, and Wesker. So with that being said, considering most dash tier Killers are not only very strong but also popular and fun to go up against and to play as, whats with the sudden hatred of them?
Comments
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Yeah, all of those Killers are also older.
Billy has been around forever.
Oni has been around for almost six years.
Blight for five.
Wesker for three.
We also have Demo, Chucky, Dracula, Houndmaster and Ghoul.
We can chill on dashes for a while, unfortunately, it seems like BHVR can only do either ranged attack or dash.
28 -
Cause it’s gotten stale
Every killer has had a form of dash and it’s kinda boring but when we get a unique killer that’s not just dashing there hated
I believe this trend started cause of ghoul him being primarily a dash killer used for just chasing it gets boring cause most of the strongest killers are dash killers and the formula gets repetitive
Springtrap thankfully isn’t that he’s a stealth/ranged killer which is probably why nobody complains about him
15 -
Pretty sure "slop" these days is just a buzzword for "thing i don't like therefore it is automatically low quality but thing I like is higher quality".
Just a way for people to make themselves feel like their opinion is the superior one, even though it'd be incredibly easy to say the same thing back to said person.
Like instead of listing all the reasons I dislike Skull merchant (her horrible lore, character design, power and so on) I just say she's 'a low-effort slop character' and called it a day.
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Anytime something is done too much, it's boring. When anti-chase started getting big, it got boring; when camping was the thing, it got boring; etc.
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I’ve only ever heard the term ironically, but I can imagine it’s because it requires changing your gameplay and makes gaining distance hard. Also there are a lot of dash type killers and SM will be one of them if the planned rework goes through so maybe people are just fatigued.
I personally love playing as and against dashslop as long as the map isn’t a full deadzone. If you know the killer you can punish players that use the dash improperly with random objects by using your terrain. Fun stuff.
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It's not inherently a problem but when they get overturned to the point they have no meaningful counterplay it becomes dull quickly. Blight, Oni, and Billy are too strong in chase for how quickly they traverse the map. Wesker, Chucky, Demo, and Houndmaster have decent counterplay and also dont have unlimited mobility like the others. Ghoul is a problem for different reasons and Drac's dash would be fine if he didn't have 3 other powers for some reason.
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I can only soeak for myself, but to offer a perspectivw od someonw who doesn't like "dash slop", in my case it's a general disdain for fast repositioning abilities and rapid movememt in games. I like to think it does have a little more nuance...
I've been playing games for over 30 years of many genres, and typically speaking for vast majority of games, high mobility or fast repositioning characters tend to be strong in any game...
The ability to reposition quickly allows for sudden/suprising attacks that catch people off guard and are more difficult to react to. Not only that, but these abilities also work well for defence and/or to undo mistakes, because any time they get caught, their reposition ability can undo a mistake.
This typically results in these characters being afforded a much more aggressive play style that can circumvent a number of the more tactile and traditional game elements, usually only limited by mechanical difficulty of execution... and where this becomes frustrating, is these characters can get away with not thinking about areas of the game that other characters have to... usually becoming very popular because they can ignore those elements, but also don't lose those elements either, where really good players can exploit both. This results in a tendency to jack up the potential of a given role and power creep the game, and over time creates an environment where every character has to be a reposition character, or get left behind.
To give some actual examples rather than vague statements: -
- League of Legends has now an abundance of dash based champions, and it became so prevalent that characters who were once considered dash characters (like Ahri), no longer stood out anymore cause dashes were so prevalent... so to fix this, they doubled the amount of dashes had from 3, to an effect that could reach 8 or 9 dashes. Nowadays seeing a character without a repositioning tool is so rare, that the only way to compensate such character is to make them a raid boss with bonkers damage.
- Killing Floor ended up with the Berserker getting buffed to move at 30% speed and breaking the game by being able to eternal lead all enemies behind him that could never catch and kill him, as getting the team killed then luring and soloing the wave as it followed you was easier. This was never nerfed and everything got buffed to match this in the name of "fun", making the game much easier and boring for long term players as it removed all team work elements the game had,
- Marvel Rivals have continuous problems with mobile dive/hit and run characters like Spiderman and Black Panther have to keep getting constantly nerfed despite underperformed because of the way they force the opposing team to completely switch how they play... they don't fight with the team working with each other abilities, they hang out of the fight and instead try 100-0 healers when they are distracted, constantly playimg a game of hit and run/cat and mouse. If ever they are allowed to be strong, they would fundamentally break the game and make half the roster completely unusable.
- Dead by Daylight itself demonstrates it with its complete shift from m1 killers as the normal in the first half of the roster, to being virtually nothing but bash m2 killers with mobility in the latter half of the roster. You'll also notice these characters like Wesker, Blight and Spirit tend to be meta compared to their m1 counterparts, setting a new bar for every killer to meet, that the fundamental design of Trapper, Pig, Myers, etc can never reach... because of this every killer since Skull Merchant has strong repositioning tools and map mobility, and can basically afford to mostly ignore the macro game if they show wish... but also retain the ability to tunnel with impunity because they have the mobility to ensure they can keep up with and focus down a player off hook.
You get the idea... I get quite frustrated at the power creep mobile characters tend to bring to games... and we are seeing in now in DBD... it has often ruined games I used to love, and I would be upset to see DBD go the same way.
7 -
and survivors have vault-slop with the windows, lithe, finesse, resi build
obv increased movement speed is going to stay meta
-11 -
Probably just oversaturation of dash killers. Depending on how you define them about 25% of the killers are a dash/mobility killer of some kind. Ghoul being the most recent example and a nearly universally hated one at that.
4 -
When they do non dash killers they get complained about until they get nerfed into uselessness or reworked into a dash killer. Look at all of the "most hated killers" and almost all of them (outside of recent ones like ghoul) were always about the "non dash" killers:
- Twins
- Old Skull Merchant
- Release Knight
- Sadako
- Singularity
- Springtrap
-5 -
Victor is essentially a dash killer with perma sprint burst that is for the most part undodgeable is the killer is experienced.
Setting that aside, there's plenty of room in the game for killers that lack a dash power to exist and also not have their best playstyle be watching a 3 gen from 12 camera angles for infinity or slugging from the start of a match.
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I'm not saying there is not room. I'm saying that literally any time a killer is designed around, control, or non-dash based powers, or more macro level gameplay, they get complained about constantly until they are nerfed into uselessness or again reworked to just be dash killers. Survivor mains have made it clear with their constant complaining about it, that the devs only make dash killers.
2 -
That's "literally" not always the case. Dredge, artist, springtrap, pinhead, unknown, etc, all perform fine and aren't widely complained about. The ones you listed needed/need reworks because their best strategies were non-interactive or involved excessively slugging for the whole match.
The issue is usually meaningful counterplay and the lack thereof. Current Alien and Pyramid Head may not be overpowered in a tier list sense but I'd wager most survivors dont enjoy the choice of "die or throw pallet/vault and also die".
The solution is finding the right mix where fair counterplay exists and the more skillful or better mindgame play wins. No one saw old Skull Merchant and asked BHVR for an autoaiming spider monkey that instantly cancels power and m1s you after leaping across the map to your location.
3 -
Twins have some of the worst implementation of an idea that we've ever seen.
Old SM needs no introduction. By far the worst thing they've ever added.
Knight isn't really that far behind old SM, but he's slightly more tolerable.
Sadako has gone through so many iterations because she had one strategy that was pretty strong, but the rest of her kit was weak. Then they ######### it up repeatedly.
Singu hasn't had many significant changes, iirc. He's extremely strong, but he requires a huge amount of pre-knowledge in order to access that strength.
Springtrap is just turbo ass to play against.
What we actually need is for BHVR to implement real engine changes. When I heard that the game couldn't handle any verticality, I think this was a Dev comment right after Ghoul, I kinda knew that they were out of ideas creativity-wise. Everything from this point on will be a rehash, because the game will actually self-destruct if they try anything new.
7 -
In my humble opinion I really enjoy killers with abilities I can chose from. Like Vecna and Dracula. While I dont play them a lot, its such a fun option to think what power do I want to use THIS time. xD
I wish we had a couple more like that.
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Because people want dash killers they are simple and it means more chase than against trap killer thats it. Survivors want chase and something easy and not complicated to play against look at wesker just teo dashes and infection nothing more or blight even he is busted and you cant loose him because even he misses he is still behind your back and will catch in no time many survivors like him then current m1 trash skullmerchant which is super weak with almost no power.
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In what world do you live in where Sadako, Singu and Spring are among the most hated killers in the game?
4 -
teleport and stealth as well
dont forget us :(
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There's only so many interesting spins they can make on a dash killer and to be honest I feel since they haven't really been able to properly balance the last 3 or so that specifically focused on dashes they should put off making them for a while.
Personally while I know I'm probably a minority I want more trap killers. A killer similar to Trapper except instead of traps on the floor you can place traps or tripmines on the wall is pretty much the main kind of Trap killer I'd like to see. Funnily BHVR did a collab with Ubisoft a bit ago in Siege and Kapkan who very much does this got a Trapper skin.
I know it's really hard to balance trap killers though which is why I never expect to see them. Dash killers are just easier to make because there's less design issues you have to worry about. For Trap killers you have to always consider the map or certain tiles.
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Slop is just a derogatory the salty survivors use. Dash killers are strong and that's why killer main like them.
-8 -
I'm reminded of my league days, back then dashslop was just called a "CertainlyT" character.
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Because BHVR is starting to balance the game around the expectation that everyone is just going to play dash killers, and since they are overbearing, they keep nerfing killers as a whole or buff survivors as a whole to bring them in line which does nothing but gut non dash killers - especially the m1 no dash killers. This includes turn makes it even less appealing to play non dash killers. Eventually, the only real option to play killer - especially at high mmr - are high mobility killers, and thats a lose lose for everyone. With every killer coming out with mobility, the m1 no mobility killers are starting to become extinct. Eventually, everyone will just see the same handful of killers every match.
-1 -
The latest killers all feel the same, but I think the breaking point for most people is the mess that is ghoul. people are starting to hate him as much as the old SM.
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Very well-worded. A good read. 😎
To be fair, I feel like the powers have been recycled in different ways for years now. I think they're starting to run out of combos is all.
6 -
All killers need to be Trapper.
-2 -
Yeah, well, when the game can't handle any creativity you start to do the same thing over and over again.
2 -
purr
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It's not salt. It's just true. And the issue is not whether the killer is strong, it's how easy & strong they are. Ghoul takes very little effort to win with (and this is coming from someone who also plays ghoul). Free hit + instantly catch up in the open + negate dropped pallets + deep wound for no reason = you have to go out of your way to lose because of how easy and effective (auto pilot) his power is to use.
TLDR: point & click to start your adventure killers are too easy to use, with too high of a reward, with almost no downsides.
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