http://dbd.game/killswitch
9.2.0 PTB assessment. (DISCLAIMER: Plenty of these points were made with lack of understanding.)
SLUGGING REDUCTION UPDATE:
- Built in No Mither recovery. (Pause the 90 seconds while carrying other downed survivors. Otherwise balanced.)
TUNNELLING REDUCTION UPDATE:
- No unhook notification shown or hook status unless it is endgame. (Killers have a harder time locating survivors at higher ranks and it makes hook camping reasonable for securing downs.)
- Unhooked survivors lose collision until endgame. (Can’t body block for other Survivors with unhook endurance as Killers return to hook for 90% of the match.)
- Killers get bonuses for not tunnelling. (Negating the usage of obsession perks and unbalanced gameplay in favor of casual Killers.)
- Survivors gain bonuses for early deaths. (Once again negating the usage of obsession perks and unbalanced gameplay all in favor of survivors. Unrewarding for proper Killer gameplay.)
- Hooked survivors sacrificed/killed negate Killer gen regression. (Once again unrewarding for proper killer gameplay.)
- Redundancy to play weak killers. (People enjoy the accomplishment of effectively playing underwhelming Killers but with these changes being made, I don’t see certain Killers being viable at all.)
THE SHAPE:
- Stalker Mode + Pursuer Mode. (Evil Within benefits that were built up through tiers are now available always.)
- Evil Incarnate. (On top of being another one hit “dashslop” killer, The Shape now has built-in Tombstone for each survivor.)
- Resemblance to The Pig. (The Shape’s new moveset is a direct copy of The Pig’s without Reverse Bear Traps and an overall improvement to her.)
PERK UPDATES:
- Perk ideas lessening. (With many perk benefits becoming available to Survivors base kit, the ingenuity of BHVR will further decline. They’re still going strong with perk additions but these changes can affect that.)
Thanks for trying to appeal to your community BHVR. But the upcoming content (excluding slugging reduction) isn’t going to sit well with players of all grades. Matches are winnable for both sides (Survivors and Killer) under average ping and none of us would want to change that to such an extreme.
Comments
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Gonna go through this piece by piece…
- I agree with your opinion about pausing the timer while other survivors are being carried. I also think it should be slowed when other survivors are within 12 meters, maybe 8, due to the fact that they can be saved in that situation.
- Killers now have a weaker version of BBQ and Chili basekit that shows the survivors you've hooked less than or equal to the person you just hooked. You'll get information for roughly every single hook that you perform.
- This point is directly untrue, as Elusive turns off with conspicuous actions and will almost certainly have the same 10 second timer used for the basekit haste and endurance effect, unless you're running OTR (in which, like the endurance, its buffed to 80 seconds). You'll never reach endgame with perma-unhook Elusive, anyways.
- The negating use of Obsession perks only applies to Dark Devotion, as Wretched Fate and Dying Light do very little for the Obsession (Dying Light even BUFFS the Obsession), and every other killer Obsession perk (minus one - Remember Me) switches the Obsession, which falls in line with the line of thinking for anti-tunnel. Remember Me's best partner is No Way Out, which requires you to hook every single survivor anyways, and already disincentivizes tunnelling due to the fact that you have to hit the Obsession 5 times - meaning they have to get healed at some point before you can attack them again.
- Survivors gain bonuses if killers continue to tunnel, but killers do get additional buffs if they do not tunnel, including mini-Pop, haste, and again, mini-Chili. Read previous point for why the Obsession perk thing actually means nothing.
- If a survivor is killed before the 6th hook, then yes, it stops the regression or blocking. You can kill at the 7th hook, which means that if you hook a survivor first, third, and then mori them after the 6th hook, you don't get this effect.
- These are buffs in hopes of allowing people to play weaker killers. Base kit regression and aura reading allows those weaker killers to free up slots in their kits to put other things that may be useful. I do know I'm very happy to have my Surge back on Michael in place of Pop.
- Combining all your Michael points into one, as someone who plays him and Billy (another OHKO dash killer), I don't feel like they're very similar at all! Michael has OHKO Demo Shred now, which greatly increases his ability to outplay loops without bloodlust or having to leave the chase. I assume, much like Oni, his Evil Incarnate mode will be triggered on command, so there will still be all the fun of popping T3 behind a survivor and lunging directly at them for the down. tl;dr on this: Michael is actually more like Demo and Oni now, and it's really nice without changing anything of what makes Michael enjoyable.
- The only perk that is becoming basekit is a reduced version of OTR's lack of grunts, blood, scratch marks, and aura reading. A bunch of perks are getting changed, though.
While I think parts of the anti-tunnelling changes will not go live (the 6 hook requirement for killing as well as its downside, and the survivor buffs to gen speeds), I do think a lot of this is actually good for the game.
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Myers wise if they can make his lunge ability into his current controllable coup baseline perk alike moveset then it will be a chefs kiss instead of it being so hard to control and move sluggish and clunky like the pigs power or demo jump.
I think michael should have unique one to him thats similar to his controllable lunge in tier 3 + coup combo.
Obviously slight stop to give players an visual queue before it gets popped
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Killer queues have been perfectly fine, you're making things up.
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he says it'll save the game, not if a lot of killers stop playing if this goes live.
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That probably is saving the game, in his eyes.
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It's not even on the PTB and we don't have concrete numbers for anything yet. Right now it's just killers whining about how they're worried changes to make tunnelling and slugging less effective are actually going to make tunnelling and slugging less effective. Gasp - the horror!
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survivors do the same thing whenever killer buffs come out. we'd be less worry if they reverted some gen regression perks back like Pop or pain res otherwise we have no way to pressure, the fact that you dont realise that is whats horrifying.
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I play killer - I don't tunnel, I don't slug, and I do just fine in my matches. This patch is nothing but buffs to me. I going to get free BBQ & Chili, Pop goes the Weasel, and temporary haste for playing no differently than I usually do.
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thats not as much of a flex as you think it is, cringe if anything
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What part exactly?
If you're going to troll or rage bait, at least try and make a modicum of sense.
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you know which part but please keep playing dumb. also im neither trolling nor rage baiting, you're just saying that to cope but keep going off
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Here's a fun fact for you… it's better for game health for there to be too many killers than too many survivors.
You need four survivors for each killer player, which means, optimally, there should be a 80-20 ratio. Everyone gets a match, and queues are quick for everyone.
Now, let's say there's too many killers, and it turns into a 75-25 ratio. That means that out of the 100 players, 6 killer players will have to wait for a match, while all 75 survivors and 19 of the killers get a match right away. 6 players will have to wait until more survivors come available.
But what if there's not enough killers, and we have an 85-15 ratio? Well, then 15 survivors will have to wait for a match, while 60 survivors and all the killers get a quick match.
So while being short on survivors isn't the best outcome, being short on killers means more than double the amount of people will have to wait.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers. I know, because I'm one of them. My top 3 killers are Knight, Xeno and Spirit, and only one of those killers will be viable come Tuesday.
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Wait, wait wait. You LITERALLY just said:
"if anything could kill this game it's waiting a long time to actually get into a game."
If there's not enough killers, then MORE people will have to wait LONGER than if there's not enough survivors.
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And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killers.
Or, they could try not relying on tunnelling for cheap, easy wins at the expense of someone else's gameplay experience. That's always an option. Heck - now killers are even going to get buffs for not doing that. Give it a try!
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Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?" Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often. If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
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This eventually becomes an issue in every asymmetrical game like this. By and large, the "Killer" role wants to win and the "Survivor" role wants to have fun. The two mix like oil and water. Anything you do to balance it out causes the former to leave, and anything you do to skew it in their favor causes the latter to leave. I think the only saving grace with DBD is that you have a lot of players invested in the game and a high turnover rate with new content, so you never have to worry so much about losing players.
In short, if everyone on the forum hates these changes and leaves or swaps over to Survivor, there will be a new batch to take their place when the next licensed Killer drops. Same with Survivor.
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No, the killer role wants to compete, and the survivor role wants to run around in circles and never get punished for any mistakes.
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You joke, but you know I'm right.
I don't mind (that much) if I lose. If I get outplayed by survivors that are looping and juking me, and I'm just getting my butt handed to me… fair enough. I can swallow that loss.
If I lose because the generators went in four minutes despite me quickly winning every chase in a decisive fashion, that's when it feels bad. And that's how a good portion of my games go these days. It doesn't seem to matter how well I play or how quickly I down, the gens still just fly. The only way I've found to slow the game down is getting a survivor out early. Gen regression doesn't really work, since every regression perk has been gutted over the past couple of years. CI is nothing more than a minor inconvenience. "Spreading pressure" doesn't work, because survivors recover from pressure so quickly. Heal times are basically instant and infinite.
So, yeah. I feel like I play really well and absolutely destroy the survivors in chase… yet I'm still getting tbagged at the gates within 5 or 6 minutes of the match starting.
Gens are too fast.
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This kind of drastic change to the game can only be judged once we have the numbers and can actual go in and see how it effects the game. I don't agree with every single thing BHVR is adding (at a glance) into this but I understand the point of it, we just need to see if it's refined enough to be good or bad for the game because it can easily be either or.
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Like I've said, I don't need to eat a poop sandwich to know it tastes bad. I can just look at it and smell it from a distance to know it's nasty.
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This breaks down though the more the imbalance becomes. 25-75, sure. 30-70, okay. What about 40-60?
We don't have the actual numbers, but given the queue times people have experienced its looking like a lot more than 25-75.
At a certain point its silly to not look at how to make the survivor experience better.
And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes. Especially casual players using mid to low tier killersIf its currently 25-75, and 20% of killers drop, the queue is fine.
It also doesn't account for people who have been playing survivor because of not wanting to wait that would be more willing to jump into killer.
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If you think two minute queue times (while 2v8 isn't active) is indicative of a 40-60 split, then we really have nothing to discuss.
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To be very fair, I said by and large. It's not going to apply to everybody. It's based on my own observations and experiences over time in different games and communities. Asymms will usually die on those two pain points.
I'm very much the same, where I don't actually care if I die in the game. I just want my time to feel valuable. But likewise, my experience is the same as yours. Killer running full slowdown and tunneling out the first Survivor, slugging everyone who tries to help until we Abandon before all 5 gens are done. Still a 40% escape rate overall, but it never really feels like it. However, I tracked my results with 2v8 and roughly 14 out of 18 trials ended in a steamroll primarily due to tunneling so strike that from the record. 😝
Who knows, maybe matchmaking is the biggest culprit of our disconnect.
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I know that I haven't even thought of booting up the game since the Walking Dead update added an item that guts my killer and broke her animations. And this update is making that decision more and more set in stone. I bought every character and a ton of skins, most of the rifts… and it's unlikely that BHVR will never see another red cent from me.
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And if your killer queues have been only two minutes for most of this year your experience has been pretty unique.
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Not most of this year, but since the anniversary? Yeah. After the Kaneki and Springtrap hype died down, queue times have been pretty good. I even see BP bonuses for the killer role during prime and night time hours.
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I feel the same way every time they gut my favorite perks. Aside from those, Survivor is essentially a fashion game (which I also enjoy). That's why I'm hopeful that this patch is a sign that they will start thinking of how to make the game more fun for everyone again. Anti-go next was ROUGH, but this (in my opinion) is a lot more tame than most of their attempts at balancing the game. I don't see why they couldn't continue that trajectory to even out more of the game. Other than you know, history.
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Idk where you are but killer queues have been borderline instant before 2v8. Survivor queues were actively climbing in fact at least on NA east even during weekends. I can only imagine what survivor queue times are gonna be like after 2v8 ends and ESPECIALLY when the anti tunnel and slug measures release.
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Killer hasn't received a basekit buff since… what? 6.1? Sure, they bumped gen kicks up to 5%, but at the same time added gen kick limits. I honestly don't think that Behavior cares too much for killer fun. They've said as much. "If you're not having fun, play survivor. Or go play a different game. Or touch grass lulz."
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People are pretending killer queues have been 10 minutes long all the time so they can claim the game is dying because survivors are sad and these changes are needed to save it.
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They're going to have a lot of fun with survivor queues if any of these changes go live lol.
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im just tired of being treated like im an ai opponent both by other players and by devs updating the game
the qol of killers or killer frustrations are never mentioned in patch notes- i get served surveys in game for 'players' that ask many survivor only questions without any sort of acknowledgement that they arent relevant to every player. im called slurs every other game, patches go live like twd with a million survivor favoured bugs that arent killswitched because no survivors have to worry about it.
then there's this update that just globally nerfs killers that's written entirely from survivor pov even in the change explainations lmao. i feel like an idiot for giving money to a game where im apparently just supposed to be a target dummy obstacle to overcome and if i ever win i must have been playing it wrong
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It's very anecdotal. I genuinely don't remember my Survivor queues being awful pre-6.1.0, but a lot of people did experience that.
It goes both ways. That same patch was meant to address the problem SM introduced of holding the trial hostage, but also removed gen tapping which was a buff to gen regression. BHVR really likes to only give buffs with some sort of nerf to balance it out, even if it doesn't make sense. Calm Spirit used to just silence screams and stealth crows, but now it makes you open chests and cleanse totems slower as a result of trying to make it more appealing.
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The sooner you realize that they want killers to basically play like a mindless bot, the happier you'll be. They don't want you to strategize, or play optimally, or try to win. They want you to just see a survivor, chase them, then chase the next survivor. Repeat a few times so everyone gets a chase or two, and then watch them bag the gates.
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They'll be genuinely happy about it, I'm sure.
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even after everything, tunneling is still optimal lol
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Ping pong tunneling is now optimal.
Hook Survivor 1. Get info on Survivor 2 bc they have fewer hook stages.
Hook S2, get info on S1 bc they have the same hook stages.
Hook S1, get info on S2.
Hook S2, get info on S1.
Kill S1 at 5 hooks. Get info on S2. Survivors get gen speed boost.
Kill S2. Get info on S3. Hook S3. Get info on S4. Down S4, win game.
Of course, you'll need an S tier to move across the map and get downs quick enough.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just giving tips to make it easier to counter your claims.
1.Pausing the slug timer wouldn't matter if you only slugged that person to go after someone trying to flashlight save. It shouldn't take you 90 seconds to hook one survivor, then go back and pick up the other unless they crawl away and hide. In that circumstance, just run Deerstalker.
2. Assuming Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage isn't changed in the perk updates, you'll still see survivor auras once they're unhooked, so you'll know when they got unhooked. Combine that with Scourge Hook: Jagged Compass and all unhooks will trigger Floods of Rage. Same thing goes for Furtive Chase. If it's not changed, the obsession moving from the person you hooked to another survivor tells you that they got unhooked.
3. Unhooked survivors losing collision isn't until endgame, it's temporary with a timer or when that survivor performs a conspicuous action (Repairing, healing, unhooking, ETC. just like DS) While I do agree that the ability to no longer body block prevents protection hits, that also means that killers can't body block that survivor to wait out the endurance. I think it's a fair trade.
4. Rewarding killers for not tunneling doesn't really affect obsession perks. The only obsession perks where the obsession being dead matters are Dying Light, Remember Me, and Rancor. And if you're killing the obsession with Rancor or relying on Remember Me, all gens have already been completed anyway. Sure, this is a nerf to Dying Light, but that perk gets used so little, that it was due for a buff/rework anyway. Plus, DBD is not supposed to be a competitive game unless you're on a competitive team. Why do you think there's no ranked mode like in other PvP games? Alas, that's another can of worms altogether. Rewarding killers for being casual just means that the only people not having fun are the people who would ruin other people's fun. Toxic bully squad survivors will get their day of reckoning eventually. Just wait until there's another incident like there was in Korea that one time. Once something happens to BHVR, they'll fix it quick. That's why ista-blind flashlights and hackers crashing custom lobbies don't exist anymore.
5. What are you considering as normal killer gameplay if survivors getting rewarded for someone dying before the killer has 6 hooks is a bad thing? That literally just punishes Sadako players who abuse condemned, Pyramid Head players who Final Judgement someone just because they have the ability to, your average tunneler, or Tombstone Myers, and that's probably going away with the rework.
6. I do agree with the negated gen regression being bad, but for another reason. I foresee that this will incentivize survivors to just leave the first survivor to get hooked on hook to get the repair boost for as fast as possible. I don't look forward to that as either killer or survivor. But if survivors do rescue them, the only reason the negated gen regression would be a problem is if you camp or tunnel them. Which again, is not really normal killer gameplay.
7. I can only think of three types of people who play weak killers. People who play them because they like them, people who play them as a challenge, and people who play them specifically for the adept (Achievement hunters) The game has never been about viability. If it was, the term "Top tier killer/build" wouldn't exist. All perks and killers would be just as powerful as the others. In fact, this just makes the accomplishment of winning with underwhelming killers feel better. Since they were made weaker by this update, that makes the challenge of using them harder, therefore making it more satisfying to win. Why do you think Soulsbourne players love that franchise so much?
8. I do agree that Dashslop Myers was a little much, but I love everything else about it. Call me biased because Myers is my main killer, but this is the buff he's desperately needed for years (Minus the dash attack, I can do without that.) He's more versatile now, and as long as they leave scratched mirror alone, I'll be happy. I don't use Tombstone or Infinite Tier 3 because I avoid using anything that I hate to go against when I'm playing survivor. Base-kit Tombstone is fine too. Because it's downgraded. Again, I'm biased because my second main is Pyramid Head and it feels a lot like that since survivors have to be on death hook for you to use the new base-kit Tombstone. Just make sure you're at six hook states before you do it to avoid anti-tunnel.
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Yeah these changes will force everyone to play S rank killers. We're suppose to all be casual killers carrying water for the enjoyment of survivors.
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Lol. "Buffs." Unless it's like 40% regression on kick and a minute of 25% Haste, those "buffs" are useless for most of the cast.
At those numbers it sounds like you want a buff that will just win you the game. Base-Kit Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ & Chili, and haste on hook aren't meaningless no matter how much you turn your nose up at them. Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want.
Casual killers aren't going to keep playing if they get punished for playing the game. Whether you think that's "right" or not, it's just the facts. They're already struggling as it is. Haven't you seen all the posts about how killer is feeling "harder" and "less fun?"
I've seen some posters parroting the party line after some content creators and influencers posted their 'killer is hard' complaint videos (usually over gameplay footage of them continuing their win streaks on the very killers they're complaining are weak). This doesn't negate my own personal experience of killer not being that hard where 3K + hatch and 4Ks are the majority of matches.
Plus, haven't you seen all the posts about how tunneling is unfun?
Killer queues have dropped dramatically since the anniversary, and I'm seeing BP bonuses for killers quite often.
I've seen killer queue with a blood point bonus ONE time right after TWD's release and it has since gone back to a permanent BP bonus for survivor and long queues for killer in all but a couple of hours in the middle of the night. Killer queues are miserable - not 2v8 miserable, but still longer than I'm usually willing to wait for.
If this update goes live, the script is going to flip. You'll see large swathes of survivors sitting in queues for a long time, only to get yet another sweat lord Nurse or Blight.
I disagree. I think that's little more than fearmongering designed to protect a tactic that killers have come to overemploy to the detriment of the game.
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At those numbers it sounds like you want a buff that will just win you the game. Base-Kit Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ & Chili, and haste on hook aren't meaningless no matter how much you turn your nose up at them. Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want.
Lol. How much gen regression do you ACTUALLY think we're going to get? I'm betting on an extra 5%. MAYBE 10%. That's an extra 4-9 seconds. Be still, my beating heart. It's not going to be basekit BBQ, either. It'll likely be more like Pinhead's notifications when he picks up the box. That's immune to Distortion, lockers, etc. It's also a lot less useful than auras, because you basically get a general direction instead of exact location.
I've seen some posters parroting the party line after some content creators and influencers posted their 'killer is hard' complaint videos (usually over gameplay footage of them continuing their win streaks on the very killers they're complaining are weak). This doesn't negate my own personal experience of killer not being that hard where 3K + hatch and 4Ks are the majority of matches.
Plus, haven't you seen all the posts about how tunneling is unfun?
Are you a casual killer? Because I seem to remember saying "casual killers." Odd, that. I'm not talking about no-lifers who haven't seen a blade of grass in months. I'm talking about people with families and jobs that have limited amounts of play time and aren't going to spend it getting repeatedly bagged at the exit gates.
I've seen killer queue with a blood point bonus ONE time right after TWD's release and it has since gone back to a permanent BP bonus for survivor and long queues for killer in all but a couple of hours in the middle of the night. Killer queues are miserable - not 2v8 miserable, but still longer than I'm usually willing to wait for.
Funny. Because I saw it pretty much every time I played after about 8 or 9 pm. And right now, there's 2v8, which always makes killer queues long. Which is why I don't play during 2v8.
I disagree. I think that's little more than fearmongering designed to protect a tactic that killers have come to overemploy to the detriment of the game.
I guess we'll see. Well, you will. I'll be playing Silksong. I have no intention of playing this game again until these changes are either scrapped or killer is MASSIVELY buffed in other ways.
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I'll also be playing Silksong. This is a great time to step away from DbD.
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Right? I was pretty intrigued on what the new killer was going to be, but after seeing these dev notes? I honestly couldn't care less. We all know that whatever it is, it'll probably be in the B tier range, have mediocre-at-best perks, and will get curb stomped by decent teams.
Silksong actually looks like a game that the devs enjoyed making, instead of whatever this is.
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Until a survivor bringing a luck offering 'goes next" or you are playing a killer with an alternate killing method like Pig or Sadako and you end up getting punished for a death before you got a full 6 hooks.
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They could easily add a condition that kills only count for this mechanic if done because of mori or freshly hooked when on death hook. For all we know it already does that - it's not even out for testing yet.
Alternate killing methods don't entitle a killer to anything. No one is meant to completely ignore the hook mechanic and if you do in this new system it's still not the end of the world - the survivors still need to do gens and I doubt the buff is going to be massive enough to compensate for there being a whole person missing.
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And I could easily see 20-30% of killer mains dropping the game over these changes.
I could, too. Problem is, I can also see that same contingent of killers be the kind to wind up in a spook'n'jukes video.
Well, probably less than 20%, to be fair.
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I think most of the people in Spook n Jukes videos are survivors. Maybe I'm wrong. I can't speak for killer toxicity, since I don't play much survivor, but I know that I probably don't go a single game without getting tbagged as a killer.
Also, I'm not a toxic killer, and I'm one of the hypothetical 20-30% dropping the game. I'm a Spirit main, and Fog Vials and her animation bugs pushed me away with TWD update, 2v8 kept me away, and now this patch is making not want to play for a good long while. Thankfully, I'll have Silksong to keep me enertained.
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"Hell, I usually run Pop & BBQ - now I have 2 free perk slots to fill with whatever the hell I want"
I dont run Pop but I use BBQ on Freddy because nothing sucks more than wasting a teleport on a gen that no one is touching lol I'm thrilled about having this basekit so I can use something else
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One of the things that fills me with the most glee in this game is faking a teleport and watching them immediately fail a skill check on the gen. I have no idea why that's so amusing to me.
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