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Here's a list of perks I think will be affected by the changes.

SadakoSlay
SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
in General Discussions

I don't want to doompost too much since we have no numbers and no idea which perks will be changed, but behaviour please tell me you actually changed a lot of perks and not just 2/3 perks like you did with the removing of haste and hindered stacking.

Here's a list of survivor perks that will make playing killer after just the antislugging changes even worse than just the changes by themselves:

  • Conviction: This will now be one of the strongest perk in the game imo. Survivors can start recovering while they move meaning they can ready conviction and move to a pallet for a pallet safe at the same time. Add the instant recovery and reaching convictions 25% needed recovery is basically guaranteed. Combine this with power struggle and flip flop and if a survivor moves to a pallet the killer now has a lose lose situtaion. Leave them on the ground and they'll conviction, pick them up and power struggle will mean the killer gets stunned. Add Soul guard and now it's basically a guaranteed escape from a chase everytime even if there's no pallet.
  • Soul guard: Survivors will now get endurance just for picking themselves up. Combine this with conviction and killers will have to pickup in 2 seconds or they lose. If a different survivor is there the killer now has to pickup instantly and risk getting stunned or lose the survivor on the ground.
  • Boon exponential: I don't think I need to explain, but with boon exponential recovery can be so quick that you as the killer can't do anything. Only 1 survivor has to bring this perk and everyone can benefit from endless pickups. The basekit tenacity means survivors can always crawl to the boon's range and pick themselves up.
  • Unbreakable: Faster recovering will make it so survivors can pick themselves up very easilly multiple times. Ryan already confirmed that survivors only have to be on the ground for 90 second total in the entire match to endlessly pick themselves up. With unbreakable they'll pick themselves up faster and it'll be easier for them to pick themselves up multiple times.
  • Plot twist: If plot twist counts for the 90 second timer survivors can plot twist and wait and now they'll be able to give themselves unlimited unbreakable. Paired with other perks like unbreakable and this will be a nightmare. They can now decide when to prepare the 90 seconds and the killer won't be able to do anything.
  • Tenacity: If tenacity stacks with the crawling speed survivors can just move to a safe zone very quickly and then they'll pick themselves up while the killer has no idea where they are unless they have deerstalker.
  • Power struggle: The instant recvery will make power struggle and flip flop waaaaay easier to activate meaning it will be way easier for survivors to create lose lose situations for killers if they go down under pallet. Combine this with other perks and it's even stronger.
  • Flip flop: The instant start to recovery will make it so survivors can recover quicker while positioning themselves to a safe location meaning that they will have higher struggle instantly. Combine this with power struggle, break out or boil over and breaking free before getting hooked will be waaay easier.
  • Boil over: Combine this with flip flop and survivors will have an advantage when the killer picks them up thanks to the instant recovery progress.
  • Background player: Since survivors can now instantly crawl and recover they can position themselves for a pallet save waaay easier. If there's someone with background player they can now get the pallet saves way easier.
  • No Mither: No mither will have no downsides now since the anti tunnel changes will make it so if a survivor gets hooked twice quickly because of no mither well gg because they are now safe untill the killer gets 6 total hookstates. The pickup speeds will now be even more usefull because of the free endless unbreakable.
  • Invocation weaving spiders: The downsides will now be useless because of the anti-tunnel and anticamp changes. If a survivor gets hooked twice quickly they are now safe until the killer has 6 total hookstates. If they get hooked their team will just win since they get a speed buff and the gens will need to repaired less thanks to weaving spiders. If the killer slugs them they can just pick themselves up with the free unlimited unbreakable.
  • We're gonna live forvever: Picking survivors up in the dying state will be way easier since they instantly start recovering and they can move towarsd you while on the ground.

Now these are the survivor perks that will make the anti tunnel changes even more awful for killers:

  • Shoulder the burden: A survivor can just use shoulder the burden for free now. The killer will not know they used shoulder the burden since shoulder the burden is bugged. The killer will hook them and boom now they are punished and they can't block or regress gens anymore AND the survivors get gen speed bonus. Even if they know that a survivor used shoulder the burden the killer now can't do anything to them if they are on death hook before 6 hook states since if the killer down them they can just get up for free thanks to anti slug and if they are killed the rest of the survivors will be bufefd and the killer will get punished and cant regress or block gens. The exposed will now also be meaningless since the killer won't know the unhook happened and thus won't know they are exposed.
  • Slippery Meat: Survivors can just die on hook by their own choice and then give the rest of the team gen repair bonus and maybe even stop all generators from being blocked or regres.
  • Wicked: This is now a free unhook in basement since the killer won't know the survivor unhooked themselves. The survivor also get the aura reading so the survivor can just leave for absolutely free. Depending on how long it takes for the killer the survivor might even be able to heal in basement before the killer knows they were even unhooked, especially if they have strength in shadows.
  • We'll make it: Survivors now get free value since the killer won't know someone was unhooked so they can heal for free.
  • No one left behind: The survivors get free value because the killer won't know the unhook happened.
  • Blood Rush: The killer won't know when bloodrush activated and how long it's been active for since the killer won't know when the unhook happened, meaning they can't account for this.
  • Babysitter: this perk will be even stronger since the killer won't know the unhook happened, meaning the survivors can just leave and by the time the killer knows the survivor was unhooked they won't be able to find them.
  • Up the ante: If a survivor unhooks themselves you now have free value since the killer won't know the survivor unhooked themselves. The survivor can also just choose to die on hook and now the remaining survivors get buffed and gens can't be regerssed or blocked anymore.
  • Conviction: If a survivor has been hooked twice they can now just chase the killer and take a free protection hit. The killer can't hook them because if they do the survivors will get permanent buffs or the killer won't be able to regress or block gens. With the free pickup with the anti tunnel the killer also can't leave the survivor on the ground since they'll just pick themselves up. Conviction removes all consequences to someone doing this since they can take the hit, go down, conviction and run away and then pick themselves up with the free unbreakable.
  • Unbreakable: Same as Conviction. If a survivor is on death hook they can just block a hit and go down and the killer can't hook them since they'll be punished. With unbreakable they can pick themselves up really fast and infinitely so now there's no consequence to the survivors.
  • Resurgence: Survivors can now just heal under hook with 0 punishment since the killer won't know they were unhooked.
  • Deliverance: Deliverance is now even more free since the killer won't be able to hook the person that uses it and they also can't slug them because of the anti slugging changes. The killer also won't know that someone unhooked with deliverance, since killer won't know when unhooks happen. Lastly and the biggest point, killers now won't know who has deliverance ready since they won't be able to check who the unhooker was since they won't get a notification that someone was unhooked.
  • Second Wind: Second wind is now free since killers won't know someone was unhooked and now they'll have all the time they need to wait until they get the free healit and the killer will be none the wiser.
  • Resilience: If a survivor is on death hook before 6 total hook states the survivors can't be hooked anymore, which means they can just stay injured. Meaning they now can now just run around injured since they can' be hooked. If they get hooked their team will get buffed, if they get slugged they can just pick themselves up. This means they now get free resilience value and they can just work on gens even faster.
  • No Mither: If a survivor get hooked twice quickly because of no mither well gg because they are now safe untill the killer gets 6 total hookstates. This perk now has 0 downsides thanks to the anti tunnel and anti slug changes. Combine with resillience and it's even more powerfull.
  • Invocation weaving spiders: The downsides will now be useless because of the anti-tunnel and anticamp changes. If a survivor gets hooked twice quickly they are now safe until the killer has 6 total hookstates. If they get hooked their team will just win since they get a speed buff and the gens will need to repaired less thanks to weaving spiders. If the killer slugs them they can just pick themselves up with the free unlimited unbreakable.
  • Duty of Care: This will be even more free since if there's a survivor on death hook with less than 6 total hookstates they are basically guaranteed safe, meanig being injured is meaningless and can just freely take protection hits.
  • Do No Harm: Since killers now need to get 6 hookstates before a kill it means survivors will basically get guaranteed do no harm value.
  • Wiretap: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies killers won't be able to damage the generator and thus won't be able to deactivate wiretap.
  • Specialist: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk will be even more powerfull since killers won't be able to regress or block generators anymore.
  • Rookie Spirit: This one won't affect killers much, but If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk will be useless since generators won't be able to be regressed anymore.
  • Repressed Alliance: Knowing behaviour this perk will also be disabled if a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies.
  • Potential energy: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk will be even more powerfull since killers won't be able to regress or block generators anymore.
  • Deja Vu: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk will be even more powerfull since killers won't be able to regress or block generators anymore.
  • Blast mine: This perk won't affect killers negatively, but this perk won't work anymore if a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies, since killers won't be able to kick gens anymore.
  • Desperate Measures: Any survivor that is on death hook while the killer has less than 6 hook states is basically safe. If the killer hooks them the killer will be punished and the survivors will get gen speed bonus and if the killer slugs them they will just be able to pick themselves up. This means that getting the effects for this perk will be way easier.

Now onto killer powers and perks. Here is a list of powers and killer perks that are affected or gutted because of the antislugging changes:

  • The Twins: The twins' power is based around slugging. They will be way weaker now and they get nothing to compensate for these changes.
  • Forced hesistation: This perk is now useless since if a killer decides to chase a different survivor than the one they just put on the ground the survivor can just pick themselves up even with no perks thanks to antislugging.
  • Infectious fright: You see survivors for such a short time you will not be able to do anything with the information. If the killer sees 2 survivor on a gen and decides to slug and chase them well the survivor on the ground can just pick themselves up for free with no perks.

Now lastly the killer powers and killer perks that are affected or gutted because of the anti tunnel changes:

  • Sadako: Sadako will now be punished for playing effectively and getting an early condemned kill. Sadako players are now meant to IGNORE THE CONDEMNED KILL IF THEY DON'T HAVE 6 HOOK STATES. This means survivors can now just ignore condemned for half of the match since the Sadako players can't retaliate at all.
  • Pyramid Head: If a pyramid heads wants to mini mori a survivor they better hope they have 6 hookstates or else they'll get punished.
  • Pig: Pig now basically can't put traps on people until she has 6 hookstates. If a survivor dies because of the trap she will now be punished unless she has 6 hookstates. A swf can just have one of them die to the trap so the rest of the team gets buffed and the pig now can't regress or block generators anymore.
  • Leverage: Since the killer now won't know when someone is unhooked they won't know they are getting value out of leverage. Depending on how long it takes for the killer to be able to see when someone is unhooked it could mean the heal will still be completed before the killer even knows they were unhooked, even if the survivors have no healing perks.
  • Scourge hook: Gift of pain: Since the killer won't know when this perk triggers they will now not know when they are getting value out of it. They also won't know when the 90 seconds started depending on how information is handled.
  • Dying Light: The slowdown to unhooking will now be useless since the killer wont know when someone is being unhooked.
  • Scourge Hooks: Floods of Rage: How will this perk even function? Do you still get the aura? Do you get the aura when someone is unhooked or when the killer knows that someone is unhooked? Knowing Behaviour this perk will either stay the same meaning it will become one of the best killer perks or it will be gutted and become basically useless.
  • Make your choice: How will this perk work? Will it work the same or not? This perk will now basically become necessary for killer if it still gives information, since it will be one of the few ways to know someone is unhooked. Even though the perk will be necessary if it keeps the info, it will still be way weaker. It will be way harder to get value out of the exposed since they won't know the that the survivor is unhooked and thus won't know when make your choice is active depending on how the information is handled.
  • Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Grim embrace: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Dead man switch: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Deadlock: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Surge: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Pop goes the weasel: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game. Also how will this perk work with the new stronger kicks with fresh hooks? If pop goes the weasel gets nerfed I'll be upset. Also do the two kicks stack into one really pwerfull kick? Dp you need to kick two diffeernt gens to use both? Does only one of them work and you lose you pop if the hooking bonus is active?
  • Call of Brine: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Eruption: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Oppression: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Unforeseen: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Trail of Torment: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Undone: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Thrilling Tremors: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Surveilance: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Overcharge: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Nowhere to hide: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Merciless Storm: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Machine Learning: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Hex: Ruin: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Help Wanted: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Fire Up: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies the gen kick part of this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Dragon's Grip: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.
  • Brutal Strength: If a survivor gets hooked twice in a row and dies the gen kick part of this perk won't be usable for the rest of the game.

These are just the perks and powers I can think off, if anyone else has any other perks/powers or anything else let me know.

Comments

  • SadakoSlay
    SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992024#Comment_3992024

    I agree, but it will still feel bad for the sadako player to get punished for using her power well.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,254

    Some perks will need to be adjusted, but some of these are definitely doom posting. Survivors are going to kill themselves with slippery meat and give the killer a 3v1? People will waste 90 seconds on the ground with plot twist? Death Hook survivors are now invulnerable? An Invocation will be actually usable?

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,254
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992026#Comment_3992026

    Why?

    Or more specifically, how can any balance change ever be made that wouldn't meet this?

    Every balance change makes certain actions more or less strong than they were and if you are on the less strong its natural to think 'if only it was still the old way'. Using her power well still moves the Sadako closer to victory. Just not as much as it currently does (presuming they don't just modify it so killer moris are exempt, in which case she now comes with a bunch of buffs when she does hook).

    Or to put it another way: why won't it feel bad for survivors when killers use their new buffs from things that were already happening to win matches?

    It will feel bad. But balance changes always come with that.

  • SadakoSlay
    SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
    edited August 31
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992028#Comment_3992028

    I'm not saying all these things will happen, i'm saying they could happen and that I hope behaviour thought about these things (which knowing the haste and hindered stacking changes they have not). For invocation for example, with the anti tunnel changes killers should now ignore death hook survivors in certain situations meaning that being injured will mean less and invocation becomes easier to get value out of with less chance of the downside. With plot twist I'm not saying people will just keep plot twisting, but I personally think it's unfair if plot twist works towards the anti camp timer. In that scenario people are choosing to plot twist to help themselves and killers get punished for it, which I think is unfair.

    Also just to add, yes death hook survivors will now basically be invulnerable if a killer has less than 6 hook states. If you hook them you get punished as the killer, if you slug them they can crawl towardsa teammate and recover to just pick themselves up. So with all these downsides what should a killer do when a no mither user keeps running in front of them not caring? There is nothing. A swf can just have one or two teammates keep pestering the killer while 2 of them do gens and hide and now there's nothing the killer can do.

    Edit: Also want to add that I'm not saying all this stuff will 100% happen, I'm saying that if these changes haven't been properly thought through they COULD happen. If the gen speed bonus is too high then sacrifising a less skilled teammate for the bonus might be a good strategy especially at 2 generators left for example. I'm not saying every person will choose to die on hook the moment the match starts, i'm saying that if there's 2 gens left a swf might choose to do that to give the rest a speed bonus. Depending on the gen speed buff that might be a valid strategy, if not the best strategy. I don't hate all these changes, I'm just really hoping behaviour thought these changes through more than their other recent changes.

    Like did they think about how making it so the killer can't damage or block gens ruins perks like nowhere to hide, since killers won't be able to activate them anymore? Same with unforeseen and Dragon's grip? Or how kilelr won't be able to stop wiretap since they can't damage generators anymore? Knowing behaviour they didn't (though believe me I want to be wrong). I'm just making this post to let behaviour know how I personally think these changes COULD theoretically affect perks and powers to inform them of this in case they didn't know. I don't want to make people worried, I just want to share my thoughts. I truly hope this post will age like milk and they thought eevrything through, but seeing the haste and hindered changes I personally feel the chance of that happening is very small.

    Post edited by SadakoSlay on
  • SadakoSlay
    SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
    edited August 31

    This is not one aspect feeling worse this is an entire characters power now feeling bad to use since you get punished for it. The fact they can just change Sadako or make the punishment not happen with condemned and yet they choose not too shows to me that they are not thinking these changes through and are just doing this on a whim. Killers hould not be punished for using their power well, if they are what's the point? People made an uproar for Billy, yet nothing for Sadako or Pig. It's not good designs if one or two characters get punished way more with changes that 90% of the cast. Like I'm sorry but if you think it's good designs that Sadko's should just ignore fully condemned survivors not to instantly lose I don't know what to tell you. Survivors can now just ignore condemned until she has 6 hookstates, making her whole kit useless. No slwodown sicne no one will use the tapes, no condemned because using this ability too early will make you lose and no pressure since no one will fear her since she has no chase ability.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,796

    I honestly think that a lot of on hook gen regression might get targetted with the new baseline incentives, I could be wrong though.

  • SadakoSlay
    SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
    edited August 31
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992085#Comment_3992085

    I agree. I find it so strange they didn't make pain resonance basekit or give killers a weaker pain res on a fresh hook instead of a weaker pop goes the weasel. The gen kick buff will only be usefull on killers that can move around quickly, while pain res basekit or a weaker pain res basekit would be universally usefull. The fact they went with pop makes me think that pain res is gonna get gutted soon or they want people to stop using it.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,796
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992091#Comment_3992091

    Yeah I agree with you there, a weaker pain resonance would be more universally useful for none high mobility killers.

  • Chilli_man2400
    Chilli_man2400 Member Posts: 3,155

    question if these anti slug changes do go through

    Can knock out be reverted back to its original version?? It was only reworked cause of the awful slugging playstyle but since you can now recover anytime knock out could actually go back to its old version

  • Chadku
    Chadku Member Posts: 777
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992024#Comment_3992024

    Main issue is that well if gen kicking & blocking are gonna be removed if a survivor manages to die to Sadako, chances are she'll be using an endgame build

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,546

    While I could see some of these being potential problems, some of these are absolutely a stretch.

    For example, anything you list with the reason starting "If a survivor dies by being hooked twice in a row" is, based on this logic, a non-issue. You don't have to do that, you can just avoid it outright. Don't hook someone twice in a row if it's going to kill them, you'll be fine. You can even slug them, you get 90 seconds to hook someone else.

    I also think citing Plot Twist here might be jumping the gun a bit. I do see that survivors could potentially force activation of the basekit pickup system this way, if BHVR didn't account for Plot Twist, but… they have to be on the ground for a really long time to do this, I don't know how scared I'd be of that as a killer.
    I'm not saying the 90 seconds then it's infinite proposal is perfect, I could see it being adjusted, but I do think people are not adequately accounting for how long 90 seconds actually is in these contexts.

    To touch on the killers briefly, while I get that it'd be a feel-bad moment for Sadako if someone misplays so dramatically they're fully Condemned before 6 hooks… I feel people are maybe assuming Sadako can actually do that on a reliable basis by just playing well. She really can't, it's part of her problems.
    Pig is also not affected here in the least. RBT head pops are a rarity and not something that is supposed to happen regularly. They're slowdown, they're not lethality.
    Pyramid Head could be affected here but I think he hopefully won't be. I would hope BHVR make sure to have his cages count as a hook stage for this new system, though, because if they did he'll be fine.

    This is a small one, but, Gift of Pain is good because of the repair penalty, you don't need to find the survivor again for it to be a good perk. In fact, you need to ignore them for it to be a good perk.
    Leverage is similar. If the implication is that the heal finishes through the heal penalty… then you're getting full value from Leverage.

    Before I move on to the stuff I could see being an issue for sure, I briefly want to ask, why does everyone act like No Mither or Weaving Spiders makes you easier to tunnel? You're already injured if you're getting tunnelled, that's the whole point of doing it. They're obviously not affected here, outside of No Mither having a recovery speed modifier.

    Now, to extend an olive branch to you, I really do think Conviction might be an issue with the new system. Tenacity could too, but I think there's zero chance that isn't one of the perks BHVR are definitely changing since they're literally using its effects for the basekit effect.
    Conviction already needed a nerf, and I do think this is going to make that more pressing. I'll also agree the Power Struggle + Flip Flop build is a problem here as well, for the same reason; Power Struggle is already badly designed, this could make it a little worse.

    We'll have to wait and see which perks are getting changed before freaking out, but a good chunk of this list won't really be affected by people that just aren't tunnelling.

  • cogsturning
    cogsturning Member Posts: 2,152

    Pretty sure perks will be adjusted for the changes. It wouldn't make sense to change the whole game and not adjust perks that interected with the old version. We're probably gonna see a ton of perk nerfs or just outright changes, like what was recently done to Streetwise. Same nams but totally different functions.

    I feel it's also safe to assume that things out of the killers control, like dying on purpose or letting teammates die on hook, won't affect the killer. The problem with that is you might see more killers hook camping people until they go second stage.

    But I don't think all these hypothetical people killing themselves on purpose or killing teammates is going to happen just for a gen buff. A teammate is more useful than a free perk. Shoulder the Burden will likely also process differently. Again, the killer is probably only going to be affected by their own actions, not the survivor actions. All these murderous and suicidal survivors just seem impossible to me.

    But if some killer perks stop working because of the gen penalty then that kinda makes sense. Half the most useful survivor perks deactivate at end game, a punishment for completing the objective. Why shouldn't killers be punished for doing the thing they're being told not to do. And if some survivor perks become useless at that point too, it's again like end game deactivation. Some perks will have more limited use. Many ate already one time use, so why not?

    I'd argue No Mither is worse than ever now. You can pick yourself up without, so it's useless there. Being unhooked has a similar effect with elusive status, so useless there, but you're still injured the whole match will little reason to run it. The killer can just keep easily slugging you if they don't want to hook you.

  • SadakoSlay
    SadakoSlay Member Posts: 71
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992249#Comment_3992249

    Being killed by sadako with condemned is a skill issue I don't know what else to tell you.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,254
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992046#Comment_3992046

    Like I'm sorry but if you think it's good designs that Sadko's should just ignore fully condemned survivors not to instantly lose I don't know what to tell you.

    Where are people getting instantly lose from?

    This is like when anti-3 genning came out and people where like 'what if it triggers when I wasn't trying to 3 gen?" Well, in those rare instances, you can't regress the gen, but at a minimum you got 40% regression from 8 kicks, where you would have got 20% before, but then, just like now, people are glossing over the broad buffs they got to focus in on the rare instances that it could happen where you are still getting a lot of value.

    Or to look at it from a survivor comparison: when BHVR, rightly, decided that unhookable builds where a problem, they put in hooks in more hooks in the places survivors were using. Even if you weren't running an unhookable build, killers now had more hooks, some frequently in really strong positions, to use against them. But I don't remember any compensation being given out.