http://dbd.game/killswitch
Its a shame that devs are doomed if they do and doomed if they don't
Here we are again. another update that was met with such criticising from both sides so the devs quite rightly decided to hold fire and have a rethink before just pushing it to live…and what happens??
Oh look a metric ton of posts criticising their decision to pull the changes.
Seriously the community can't complain that these changes are bad then complain when BHVR wants to re-design it slightly and test it at a later date. Like what do you exactly expect from the devs here. These changes are some of the biggest changes the game has seen as it will completely change up how the game is played in theory so it has to be done right not just rushed through.
I want to kind of defend BHVR's decision here as I think they have done the right thing with pulling this update for now and here is why.
The rewards for killer were kind of OP so let's break down the rewards for a unique hook.
Base Kit BBQ - When you look at it base kit BBQ was maybe not the best idea. Given that a lot of killer players of mid/low tier players will run BBQ as it is just an all around great information perk it frees up a perk slot. So not only are you giving some aura reading for a unique hook your also giving the full benifit of an additional perk slot.
Base Kit Pop - Same issue as the base kit BBQ. You now have no reason to run pop goes the weasel which again frees up a perk slot if that's a perk you like to run.
10% haste off hook - This I have a mixed opinion on. On one hand some killers its fine on. A little bit of speed to get away from the hook felt nice. But on others it was really broken. They reduced the effect for a handful of killers which is great but they missed some. The main being Clown. Now clown can be 27% faster for 15 seconds after a hook that's insane (And I say that as a clown main its to much)
Then you have the downsides to "tunnelling"
The increased gen speed if you kill someone within 6 hooks. In theory that is fine but its very situational.
Kill someone within 6 hooks with 4 or 5 gens left then yeah ok you prob committed to a tunnel you bad bad killer you. But kill someone within 6 hooks with 1 or 2 gens left then its absurd you would be punished for that.
The blocking all gen kicks if you kill someone who was just unhooked again depends on the situation. At the start of the game understandable. you have chosen to ruin the game for one person yeah punish them. You kill someone like that with 1 - 2 gens left its just smart gameplay not an evil move.
Overall the tunnelling changes were not suitable for live servers and if they were to go to live then as a community we would have to trust that the changes to numbers that BHVR make are going to be for the good not the bad which we can't guarantee.
Overall pulling these changes makes sense. BHVR saw the massive amount of feedback slating these changes and decided "yeah let's take a step back, re-asses this and trial it again at a later date" which I think is the correct way to do this as it means that they can re-design AND re test.
I look forward to seeing the changes BHVR makes to the anti tunnel idea and hopefully this will be done ready for the next PTB.
Comments
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The rewards for killer were kind of OP so let's break down the rewards for a unique hook.First, credit to you for looking at where things might be a problem on both sides.
Seriously the community can't complain that these changes are bad then complain when BHVR wants to re-design it slightly and test it at a later date.The community is going to disagree. BHVR should anticipate that and that the voices who are most upset (those opposed earlier, those supporting now) will be the loudest.
Like what do you exactly expect from the devs here.1: Better anticipation of how the community will react to the changes.
2: Better communication, if its a massive PTB that will take at least two tries, tell us. Tell us what you thought worked and what you thought didn't so we can respond to that. Don't just drop it on everyone before you take the weekend off.
3: Having a vision. If they believe radical changes are necessary, go for it. If they don't believe that is necessary, don't spend so much time on changes and keep it simple.
4: At some point, getting it right. From the Ghoul, to the bugs, to the fog vial, to even livestreams, it hasn't been great from BHVR lately. If this wasn't on the heels of all of that, I think people would be much more understanding.
Kill someone within 6 hooks with 4 or 5 gens left then yeah ok you prob committed to a tunnel you bad bad killer you. But kill someone within 6 hooks with 1 or 2 gens left then its absurd you would be punished for that.This is I think one of the most misunderstood elements of the patch where BHVR really should have clarified their goals.
It's not a catch up mechanic. If the killer gets to six hooks before any gens are done, survivors don't get the boost.
It's also not an anti-tunnel mechanic in the sense that it is meant to make it impossible or that they are saying killers who are doing it are breaking some sort of game rule.
It's disincentivizing a certain playstyle for the killer and rewarding another. They have a choice, eliminate before six hooks, survivors get this, or strive to get six hooks before an elimination and they don't (and they gain tools to make the latter more doable). And, like all strategic decisions, its possible the killer pursues one route (the six hooks) but then is faced with a situation where the correct course of action changes.
That's why survivors get it regardless of the killer progress, just as the killer gets their buffs regardless of how the trial is going.
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I think the concern is less about a delay for fine tuning and more about such a severe neuter that the changes are useless, if any even happen at all. People are still stinging over fog vials. Last I heard, getting tunneled too fast still earns you DC penalty too. It's a little hard to have faith.
At the start of the game understandable. you have chosen to ruin the game for one person yeah punish them. You kill someone like that with 1 - 2 gens left its just smart gameplay not an evil move.
When exactly is the start of the game? Three gens can pop in under two minutes if you play poorly.
But kill someone within 6 hooks with 1 or 2 gens left then its absurd you would be punished for that.
If there's one gen left and you have so few hooks, how much is that penalty really going to matter at that point?
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Yeah, that's my main concern. It'll probably become as useless as the anti-facecamp and 8-gen-regression limit and AFK crows. IMO, the only issue was that the inability to regress or block gens might have been one step too far. Remove that, and the system would have been fine, so I don't see why a delay was necessary. Unless they're changing the system completely, but who knows at this point, given the track record we've seen.
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The unique hook effects are garbage. The basekit bbq isn't good when it has extra conditions + survivors know you will always have it. Pop isn't viable on lower tier killers. Haste does nothing for most killers also.
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That sums it up.
I would:
- Make BBQ not conditional
- Keep haste speed at 10% but for clown not
- Replace pop for pain res
- Add back live unhook notification
-12 -
So now you can just tunnel with bonuses?
It needs to be
All bonus giving on alternating hooks
*BBQ
*Dynamic haste make time and speed individual for each killer
*Block the generator with the most progress for 10 seconds (this is shown in white)
*basekit pop
*Delayed hook notification
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Patch 9.2.0 is the worst update.
It is massive buff for survivors and a small compensation buff for non-tunneling killers.
Anti slugging, anti tunneling, add more pallets, buff survivor perks and nerf all gen regression perks.
People don't like gen rush, But BHVR increased the speed of the generator in this patch.
Hopefully the next patch will come with ( Anti-Gen rushing ) too.
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But they seem really disorganized, instead of doing 10 things in the same update but "later" you can just focus on one thing… keep antislug only for next chapter and tweak it if needed it's not that deep.
You keep antitunnel stuff for later, also you can test just elusive effect and no punishment and see how it goes ? it doesn't have to be extremely complex, I don't know the way they do things is kinda dumb no offense
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Delaying is fine, but I'd just like some consistency from the devs. I feel like terrible changes frequently get pushed to live when they negatively affect Survivors, but there's a lot more caution when it comes to the Killer side of the game. It often feels like Survivors have to just eat it up for a couple of patches before BHVR can iron things out. Lots of players were acting like the new anti-tunnel system is nothing but straight nerfs to Killer but that's not true at all. I don't believe adding these systems in their current state would have "killed the game" as some were arguing. That's just ridiculous hyperbole.
All the while, Survivors are still getting grade penalties if they're tunnelled out way too quickly. Is this really the go next prevention system working as intended? Why is this system still in the game in the state that it is? Please BHVR, just be more consistent.
Post edited by tjt85 on4 -
It was obvious that this would happen; I predicted it from the start. The changes were too radical, completely ignoring the limitations of each killer. They created unrealistic expectations among survivors who basically just wanted an advantage.
A double backlash, and totally deserved in my opinion. I think it's fine that they want to fix the problems with their game, but you always have to keep in mind the impact of those changes you're introducing. If you're going to change the way your game is played, moving a few numbers up and down is not enough.
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A big problem is that the game was fine as it was some time ago. It got popular and successful for over nine years. Not many game manage that.
But they can´t just stop changing things. And so they change things that doesn´t need to.
The should be very careful to change and limit too much of the core gameplay as this cold hurt more than players think.
There have always been nasty and annoying stuff in the game but that is a big part why it is successful. Sadly a lot of players don´t really get that and want to force people to play a certain way. But that is not good if you like it or not.
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