http://dbd.game/killswitch
The actual issue with tunneling, is not tunneling. Its the definition of it is viewed differently
For me personally, tunneling only and just only is that the killer chasing the same player over and over again
people have all this additional definitions of what tunneling is as well as layers
soft tunneling
hard tunneling
toxic tunneling
comp tunneling
2 player tunneling
and this is why the case of people claiming "tunneling is a issue" is so common
here are some scenarios I have seen people claims counts as tunneling:
Player A gets hooked > while player A is hooked Player B is getting chased > Player B is chased downed and hooked > Player A gets unhooked while player B gets hooked > killer return to play A hook where he still is probably getting healed > killer start chasing player A again. For me, this is not tunneling. "Player A was just unhooked" yes but the killer was putting pressure on another player. the killer did NOT have tunnel vision on player A only. If the survvors got the unhook faster or just ran away as soon as they got the unhook to heal in a safer area Player A would been fine.
Scenario 2: Player A gets hooked > player B gets hooked > player A gets hooked > player B gets hooked > player A gets death hooked > player B gets death hooked. this for me is not tunneling either, u are putting pressure on 2 players, yes u are ignoring the other half but again, its 50% not 75%. so half of the team is still being pressured.
Scenario 3: Player A gets hooked > player B gets hooked > player C gets hooked > player A gets hooked > player A gets death hooked. I actually dont believe this is tunneling either. The killer fresh hooked 3 players, yes player A got hooked twice in a row, but again the definition of tunneling is to focus on one player and one player only. And this was not the case. This is also one of the scenarios that would trigger BHVR gen block penalty + 25% gen progress as this is "only" 5 hooks.
tunneling for me is simple. player A gets hooked > player A gets hooked > player A gets hooked without the killer attempting to pressure, chase or commit for someone else. 3 hooks, 1 player, nothing more, nothing less.
If BHVR is gonna make a anti tunnel mechanic, then they themself most give us the actual definition of what tunneling means, a simple sentence, with not a bunch of "factors" or "extra layers" to it. tunneling should mean one thing, and one thing only
Comments
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exactly, this is the biggest problem I saw with this update. There were some good ideas but it would’ve mainly affected people who didn’t tunnel, at least by this definition, so calling it “anti-tunnel” felt like a slap in the face. Those who play killers that are able to hard tunnel 1 survivor out at 5 gens would still be able to do that, but I would still get punished for hooking 3 separate people, or in some cases just using my power.
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I actually appreciate BHVR's plan here. Instead of getting stuck in the weeds trying to pare down a system so it's only and exclusively restricted to a very specific thing (subsequently also requiring practically no effort to circumvent), they cast a wider net and gave compensatory buffs contingent on the behaviour they're aiming for. It creates a pretty decent gradient where the more you chase the buffs, the less the 'collateral' matters.
Only problems are the total genblock and Pig.
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Scenario one is still definitely tunneling..I mean the killer doesn't need to twidle his thumbs in a corner to have it count as tunneling.. further more you blame the survivor for your action aka choosing to run back to that hook to find them.
Scenario 2: I think would have just been the new meta of the update went live. And wouldn't have seen that being a problem especially if they lowered the hook count to 5. But no adjusting took place just axing the system to stop the out cry.
Scenario 3: this seems like a game where the killer was playing casually and decided to hit the ez win button because maybe they got tea bagged or getting pressured by gens. That's the issue is the killer can basically turn a game into a pretty unwinnable scenario just but taking the easy way something the other side doesn't have an option for.
I don't have a problem with tunneling its the absolute no questions asked easiest way to secure a win for the killer. It's obvious and mathematically the smart move.. while it's super unhealthy for the game playing by a code of honor in a pvp is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Behavior claims them don't like the current meta. They don't like survivors getting kicked out of matches early they spent months if not longer in dev time and costs to make this update. Claimed they would tweak it as needed if it effected the killer role negatively on mass and then axe it in 3 days.
No tweaks no adjustments barely any testing because they also added it to a PTB that had 90 different changes. And this isn't something the PTB should be testing it needs to go live and see true numbers only the most die hard fans bother with the PTB a VERY bad group to balance things around.
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Many people call things tunneling that aren’t tunneling, that’s the problem. Someone just happening to get hooked twice in a row isn’t tunneling. Tunneling requires intent behind it, such as ignoring other players and just wanting you. Just because I’m wondering around the map and happen to run into the person that was last hooked that isn’t tunneling. You can’t expect the killer to just be like oh dang my bad bro! Didn’t see it was you! Carry on mate. And then continue wondering around looking for someone different while he plops on a gen after you leave. That would be just silly. These scenarios are what lots of survivors consider tunneling though and expect the killer to do just that.
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What is your definition of tunneling?
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No, tunneling does not require intent. The same garbage killer just happening to find the person 15 seconds after unhooking and downing them until they die on hook IS TUNNELING no matter what. It doesn't matter if one other person got hooked during this time. A survivor was forced out of the game significantly earlier than what should be the case and now the killer has an incredibly easy time in a 3v1. This is exactly why tunneling existing in the game in the first place was a goddamn mistake. People are now trying to spin this into a "I am holier than thou" because they tunnel in a slightly different way than the 3k hour blight main leaving chase to go kill someone immediately. 99% of killers on these forums would have triggered the anti-tunnel every single game if they actually played with the changes instead of just insulting and threatening BHVR over and over again. Because they are tunneling. BHVR THEMSELVES HAVE NOW DEFINED WHAT TUNNELING IS ACCEPT IT
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Just like they defined that their system is not very good at its desired goals and is not going live?
AcCePt It!!!
You seem to be crashing out and stereotyping people - it's just a game.
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Scenario 4: Player A is hooked, Player B unhooks them and then Player A proceeds to immediate do a conspicuous action in the killer's line of sight. What's the killer supposed to do? Laugh "Oh, silly survivor!" and just ignore them?
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Amount of people say they are getting tunneled an they aren't i always find weird.
Even seen people saying they are getting tunneled when they haven't' been hooked lol3 -
I'd say 4 or 5 hooks is fair. In the case of player A being hooked three times in a row because the killer is intentionally targeting them, someone has to unhook player A. If player B is downed right at the base of the hook after unhooking and the killer tosses them on the hook and immediately pursues player A again, that's still tunneling. They just got an extra easy hook in the middle of it.
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or… if the killer is going after other survivors and keeps finding you by being “garbage” maybe you’re playing poorly?
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The main problem is that they have completely ignored the fact that there are more than 40 killers in their game and that each one has a particular gameplay style. The difference between Trapper and Nurse is huge, a 5% difference in haste after a hook doesn't solve that disparity. If you tighten the rules, obviously all you're achieving is widening this gap. Before considering any system that redefines the rules of the game, they should seriously start balancing all the killers, no more random low tier killers nerfs, the gap needs to be closed. Any change that ignores this problem is doomed to failure.
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I've had this happen. Back when I still had messages turned on on PS4, I would get these sorts of complaints. The most ridiculous was when my friend was in his first chase of the match, had not hooked a single person yet, and less than 60 seconds into the chase the survivor hopped into a locker and disconnected, then sent a message: "You're tunneling! The devs said tunneling is cheating. Stop tunneling."
???
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Honestly any scenario that involves the killer going back to hook to find the survivors healing under it is a massive skill issue on the survivors...
Let me spell it out for you, real simple:
DON'T HEAL UNDER HOOKS
No killer should be punished for terrible survivor plays.
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It's a hard thing to really define because despite the intention behind it, the results are the same. If a player feels like their time was wasted and/or they didn't have the tools to defend themselves, then the only difference between the two scenarios is a difference of .5-1k BP. I don't think that should be on either player to rectify, which is why I think BHVR stepping up to address these sorts of things is important to the health of the game. Like @Firellius said:
There needs to be positive and negative weights to shift the game in the right direction. Not just punishments like they've doled out as recently as a couple months ago. And hopefully how they handled this overall, despite being messy, is a positive sign.
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" they didn't have the tools to defend themselves"
In the scenario I'm describing this wouldn't be relevant because they would have the tools to defend themselves, they just failed. "Actual" tunneling with intent is done in a way that does remove some tools to defend themselves.
"If a player feels like their time was wasted "
As said before, without being done with tunneling intent their tools aren't taken away. So the literal only reason to feel their time was wasted was because they played bad. The truth hurts here. The result may be the same, but the reasoning for getting there is different, and that matters.
In reality the only reason to hate the "not real" tunneling scenarios I'm talking about and still consider them tunneling is a lack of accountability and feeling bad, because you played bad. Since the killers just happening to run into them their tools haven't been removed, they just got outplayed, again. There were no shortcuts here like "real" tunneling removes.
BHVR cannot make changes to the game to fix this problem when at the end of the day it's a skill issue. They just have to get better.
Again, not talking about "real" tunneling here. Just talking about the scenarios I mentioned that aren't really tunneling but many people like to consider them tunneling because accountability is hard.
BHVR has been consistently making changes to try and get bad players to win more matches than they realistically should be. It's bad design.
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Additionally, it is not tunneling if a survivor weaponizes basekit bt or you accidentally run into a random Dwight.
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your first scenario is tunneling though. This is how you tunnel 2 survivors at the same time. Player c and d exist and you opted not to target them at all, you focused your attention on player a as soon as you could again.
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so now tunneling means chasing 2 different players aka half the team?
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To me the problem is people who hard tunnel at 5 gens to get a survivor out so they have easy wins.
This tactic should not be possible, it ruins the match for not only the person being tunnelled, but also the other 3 survivors who are left in an unwinnable match.
Having to address this will have an impact on those who only tunnel strategically (one gen left kind of thing) but as always, it is always the few that ruin things for the majority.
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This is the biggest thing for me, survivors feel entitled to just stand under hook and heal rather then using the time killer is hooking someone else to go somewhere else and heal.
Like they expect after hooking someone the killer shouldn’t come to the unhook notification where they know at least 2 out of the 3 survivors not currently hooked are; what are killers meant to do just wander the map looking for one person in particular?0 -
Player a is hooked, while they’re being saved you hook b. You now go and hook player a, a second time, you ignored player c/d. Player b gets unhooked while player a is on hook in struggle. You opt to go for player b again instead of c/d. Now two survivors are on death hook. C/d never been hooked or even chased. A gets unhooked and you finish the tunnel. B gets unhooked and you finish the tunnel.
Several high mobility killers can do this with ease. You can easily tunnel two survivors out at the same time. Just because you did it to two survivors doesn’t mean you didn’t do it. It just means you did it twice.
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And this is a good example of what NOT tunneling is and why people just attribute it to whatever they want for justification for whatever narrative they want to push.
The term tunneling is derived from tunnel vision; a figurative term describing when you focus excessively on a single individual, neglecting others.
Actual tunneling is focussing solely on one person. Your example is just a showcase of killer objective efficiency where it would be less effective to go after the uninjured survivor who isn't closer to death. Spreading hooks between two people isnt tunneling no matter what you want to think.
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4 player tunneling is peak toxicity.
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it is tunneling though. If you can’t focus on player a because they’re on the hook you focus on player b. What you claim tunneling would be would also include camping and what is commonly referred to as hard tunneling.
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While significantly more angry then I would have posted it. Another person said it.
"Tunneling does not require intent" whether accidently or intentional being kicked out of a match at 3 mins feels terrible it's also one of the reasons I really didn't like 2v8 as it felt like I qued and waited in lobby/loading longer then I actually played. Tunneling or I should say the end result that behavior causes is this problem which has been afflicting the game since the very beginning.
I would argue that most people believe the game should be killer sided to an extent. And that most people on the survivor side are even fine dying most of their matches. But that changes on "when" they die. See the killer role is also negitvely affected by tunneling as it requires hard nerfs and balances that neuter the killer role in order to keep this play style in check.
Hypnotically if the killer required 12 hooks to win and 6-8 hooks before killing some one you could have absolutely terrifying killers on the board.. chases could be shorter because the killer needs to hook faster to keep up. So no 3 min loop session on weaker killers hiding might be more viable as killer would move faster and pressure gens better. Because these extra talents or buffs as you would say wouldn't be used to kick a player out faster except upon the final hooks for the team. Obviously my fan fiction has issues with some killers like hag and trapper as more unique buffs or reworks would be needed to fully embrace a non tunneling system.
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It's not though, by that logic doing more than one gen at a time is "gen-rushing" when its just more efficient survivor objective progress. Shifting the goalposts with arbitary alternate meanings for tunneling in multiple scenarios is just proving my point really.
You're not focussing on one person only, you are not tunnel visioned, you are not tunneling. Nothing else, no made up other arbitary meanings matter. It literally doesnt align with the actual reason the term came to be if you're splitting your attention.
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