http://dbd.game/killswitch
Your game is incredibly unbalanced. By design?
ive played 20 matches of survivor today. My team escaped ONE. I see your statistics have the killer winning 60 percent of the time. What are you guys thinking. Why not make it 50 50. Killer perks are absolutely ridiculous compared to survivor perks. The only thing survivors have is pallets and windows and so many killers (knight, legion, nurse and more) aren’t even affected by them. It’s like you designed a game for people to lose.
And then your matchmaking. Ive been playing for a couple months only and i go against people with 10x as many hours. In short what is your thought process? To try to piss people off?
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mostly because oh i dont know therre might be 4 survivors and a single killer??? keep in my 60% KILLrate means abt 2k/3k every other match. Wich means you should tie as much as you win
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Which is better then 1e/2e, achieving a loss or tie every other match on average.
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An issue with the game is solo queue survivor is the the hardest role in the game and at the lowest MMR (When you start playing) I recall it being the most difficult.
However a GOOD SWF (Survive with friends) survivor team is the strongest and easiest role in the game (When they have voice communication, etc) so it’s difficult to balance between the two.
As for MMR I hear it’s not great, from what I understand there’s a small amount of people in lowest and highest MMR and everyone is in the middle somewhere.And for perks exhaust perks like Lithe are the easiest way to escape killers in chases with perks like Windows of Opportunity to help with loops and Resilience and Finesse to get a boost when fast vaulting to help with loops.
A generic popular build for survivor would be something like Deja-Vu (+ Repair speed and helps prevent 3-gen situations where you end up with 3 generators next to each other near the end of the game), Lithe, Windows of Opportunity and Resilience (To help fast vaulting).4 -
That's not what it means, because the "draw" of a 2k is the least common option.
Most games are either a 4k or 0k, with 4k being the most common.
60% kill rate means you're close to "winning" twice as often as you lose as killer. If you 4k, 4k, 0k, you have killed 8 of 12 survivors, which is 66%. Some killers average almost 70% kill rates.
I've not seen a PVP game that intentionally makes it where killer can win more than twice as often as the survivors they face, by design, and call it "balance".
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where is the proof of these statistics? (from bhvr themselves) and "normal" pvp games arent made asym by nature killer HAS to be the power roll otherwise its kkfos/f13th all over again
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and they love to punish solo survivors now!
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Yeah it is… I thought the devs had come to their senses for a second but then they cancel PTB in less than 2 days. I doubt the game will ever be fun they keep listening to the wrong people, the "I need to 4k everygame or I uninstall" crowd, "I need muh power fantasy"
they complain about anything that doesn’t guarantee them a win, treat every match like a tournament and the devs keep catering to them, that's why we never get fun or meaningful updates
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Checking my own stats, I am escaping and killing on either side about as much as they projected.
Ticking the 'All Time' tab, my Yoichi has a 42% escape rate and my Sadako has a 67% kill rate. Ticking 30 days, Yoichi has a 52.94% escape and my Sadako has a 60.71%
This is going by their stat tracker as well, which you can debate can be off, but I can't argue that the game is being overly punishing on survivor. What it IS punishing is survivors who don't have the same time to learn everything, and is basically stuck with a limited perk pool. What probably has my Yoichi above norm is the fact I've been running either a full heal build or a genrush build on and off.8 -
How the hell are you playing 20 games with only 1 escape?
Are you talking, like, one single 4e out of 20 games, or one single >2e out of 20?
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I don't track my stats, but according to the milestone challenges, my escape rate is at 37.5% since the start of the new Rift. That puts it comfortably in line with where they want me to be, but it's just data. It doesn't characterize what the trials are like or how fun they actually are to play. I extend that to Killer as well, though I imagine it must be at least a little less miserable.
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It's not hard to die 10 solo q games in a row with bad RNG, happens all the time :))
last time I played I had bots on my team almost every match, these games with DCs aren't even counted in killrates, the stats are misleading they don't reflect the real solo q experience
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I don't know what you're doing but those lengths of losing streaks are basically unheard of for me.
I play a lot of solo.
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50/50 would mean killer is mostly losing. Basically kill rate and win rate is something different.
Two killers can have same kill rate, but have different win rates, because it depends on their expected outcome of the match for loss/win.
Some killers are really good at securing 1k, so their kill rate is going to be higher, but it's still a loss.
Also mobility killers are more likely to get 4k, because they have easier time to find hatch/defend gate.
50/50 would make sense for win rate, not kill rate. I think 50% win rate was in real statistics equal to 57.5% +/- .-3 -
Issue is elo hell is 100% a thing in DBD. I can easily see it on games when I play on my account compare to my girlfirend's account.
Thing is in DBD just 1 bad survivor is often enough to lose whole game and when you die your MMR gets reduced, which means you will get even worse teammates.1 -
where is the proof of these statistics? (from bhvr themselves)1: If your standard is BHVR, then kill rate = win rate.
2: Where is the proof from BHVR that it isn't correct? The burden of proof goes both ways. Those pointing out that 2ks are rare have at least some evidence to back them up.
"normal" pvp games arent made asym by nature killer HAS to be the power roll otherwise its kkfos/f13th all over againDifferent argument. The game is unbalanced, if you want to argue it should be unbalanced, and how unbalanced, then you should make that argument instead of the incorrect math argument.
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It's intentionally unbalanced. I think they've gone overboard on that.
Starting off survivor is absolutely brutal for many players and it would be nice if BHVR did something about it.
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Fully agree that matchmaking is complete garbage and totally broken. That is by far the #1 problem in the game.
You ask why not a 50% average kill rate? Because the most difficult level of killer - playing high MMR against 4-man SWF - has an average kill rate of 52%. You are saying that you want the average game for the average killer against average squads (not 4-man SWF) to be even more difficult than going against high MMR 4-man SWF? Good luck keeping any killer players in the game if that happens.
Honest question: are you a new player? If yes, you have to understand the survivor experience is going to be miserable for a while. At least it was when I first started and for quite a while until I got better at the game.
Survivor can be quite fun if you’re matched with competent teammates. The root problem all comes back to matchmaking and the SBMM system in general. If you are highly skilled at looping and get killer to chase you for multiple gens every game but you never escape because you’re teammates are useless, the SBMM system says that you’re equally skilled compared to those useless teammates. This has to change or the survivor experience will never improve. There has to be a better way to make sure skilled players consistently get paired with other skilled players and the bad players with other bad players.0 -
Your intentional mischaracterization of the “other side” is exactly why we can never have productive discussions about balance. You know perfectly well that nobody is saying “4K every game or I uninstall”, but you don’t care. Stop with the “us vs them” garbage.
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To be fair, if the mechanic that could potentially cause less steamrolls is protested into obsolescence, is the end result not the exact same?
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And what is a "win" you?
To me: Survivor win = I escaped (I don't care how many other made it out, survivor win individually)
Killer:
0-1K = loss
2K = draw
3+K = win
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Ideally it would be the same for both sides. BHVR should reward all Survivors as a team. But currently your version is the standard. It's how MMR operates as far as I'm aware.
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I haven't seen anyone state "4k or we uninstall?"
Also im pretty sure I have seen many killers state yeah, we need anti tunneling or anti slugging in some way, because they understand when people are straight tunneled at 5 gens is not a chill thing?
BBut at the same time the killers that stated the anti-tunnel was TOO punishing is true. Because when we make a mistake(commit to a chase for to long. Not pressure gens) we are hit by the consequences. But if the a survivor chose to run straight to the gen infront of us, we have to slug, or eat a penalty. Which felt a bit to much not a consequence just for the survivor but killer as well?
I WANTED theses to be put through with tweaks. Most of the content creators that complained wanted tweaks and for ot to be pushed through with those tweaks.
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I'll win far more consistently playing killer than survivor with a good swf. The level of coordination and mistake free play required to counter tunneling is too high to reliably achieve.
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Overall the reason they don't push for 50/50 is because DBD is at it's core a horror game. The survivor is supposed to feel overwhelmed and outmatched. The killer is supposed to feel like a true threat. I feel the 60% benchmark is a good goal maybe even 55%.
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1/20 isn't 60/40 or 50/50. Your team is at the low end of the bell curve. If BHVR decided to make it 50/50, like this was some synchronous PvP game, it wouldn't suddenly make your team better.
60/40 or 50/50 does not mean you are guaranteed an escape in so many games. Because it's not just you but thousands of other survivors that make up that stat. Your "team" lost 19 games was balanced out by someone else's team escaping 23 times.
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Yeah, usually in this context it's as you said 0-1k loss, 2k draw, 3-4k win.
Personally it can be different for both killers and survivors. It's like if outcome of the match is worse/better than expected.
SoloQ? If we finish gens and anyone get out I consider it to be win.
full SWF? 2 or less escapes is loss.
Blight/Nurse? Anyone escaped with finished gens is loss for me.
Lower tier killers is where I would consider 3k+ as win.-1 -
So they canceled PTB in panic after only 1 day for no reason ? interesting take, I love how everyone remix the truth 10 days later pretending the feedback was calm and reasonable 😹 i think you should downvote harder even -150 brownie points can't change the truth
you just had to check reddit, twitter, steam, youtube, most of it was different versions of the same complaint "enjoy 30 min survivor queue", "boycott killer role just let this game die", "I will play only nurse/blight after update", "I won't spend a single penny" blabla blah..
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playing high MMR against 4-man SWF - has an average kill rate of 52%.
So you're still winning most of the time against them, right?
No one (that I'm aware of) said "4K or I uninstall" but we have people IN THIS THREAD saying that anything less than 3K is a LOSS FOR KILLER. The person I was responding to literally said "Good luck keeping any killer players in the game if that happens." in response to the suggestion that they settle for a 2K
So, it's at the very least an implied "3K or I uninstall" without leaving this very page.
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That's not remotely close to how MMR works.
If I lose a game, it's not cancelled out by someone else winning. It's cancelled out by losing MMR, facing an easier opponent, and WINNING AGAINST THEM.
Obviously, the current MMR doesn't work, and that's why you get 19 4Ks in a row, but no that's not "normal" or good.
Some killers are really good at securing 1k, so their kill rate is going to be higher, but it's still a loss.
No, it's 1/4th of a win. You still beat someone. 0K, sure, that's a loss, but if Survivors have to suck it up when they get tunneled out and accept the cold comfort of their teammates escaping, then Killers have to suck it up and accept a 1K occasionally.
Neither one feels great, but the player who literally got kicked out of the game does have a SLIGHTLY more valid complaint…
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Your issue if you care only about your experience as survivor instead of team…
When all my teammates escape and I am only one to die, I think that's great outcome.
If you think every survivor game, where you die is loss, then that really has to be miserable experience.4 -
Respectfully in my opinon both anti slugging and anti tunneling should have been separate ptb. For better feed back on said mechanics. Slapping them on the same PTB, and WITHOUT NUMBERS when announcing it would seriously cause panic. Because let's be fair, BHVR numbers game on things is pretty wishy washy at times for both sides
Also if A killer who isn't tunneling can still be affected by the anti tunneling is bad and needs tweaks
And yes, ihbo BHVR took a knee-jerk reaction to the back lash rather then hearing the credible complaints of "needs tweaking for X and y scenarios."
Even many survivors stated "yeah I can see how this can be an issue in those scenarios"
And let's be transparent.
I said I haven't seen them, not that they are not real. If anyone says "4k or i uninstall" they are kinda weird and as entitled as they claim survivor mains are.
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Even this a 3k or i uninstall is blatant bs take on anything imho. But at thebsame time, if im considered a draw at best with 2k, and 3k is a win, the system itself is bad.
I always wanted the win to be based off Hooks or back to pips. Because when you make an objective taking someone out, it becomes somewhat competitive.
Which leads to Fair or Enjoyment to be tossed out.
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Again… I really hate this. Comparing S Tier killer with "regular killer". I don't like to play Nurse or Blight. I just physically do not enjoy playing them. I actually get sick from playing Nurse. And I do not own any killer past Twins. So complaining about any of those killers and claiming killer in general are to easy, because those special killers are to stronk, is rubbing me the wrong way.
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Tbf, if you compare it. S tier killers are like the sweaty SWF groups. If you bring up one it allows the right to compare using the other.
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MMR is not that dynamic. It takes far more than 20 games to dip your MMR, especially if you're above the match making threshold.
Remember that's 19 different killers you faced. You don't know what kill/escape history each one had. The only consistent variable is your team.
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The only thing survivors have is pallets and windows and so many killers (knight, legion, nurse and more) aren’t even affected by them. It’s like you designed a game for people to losLike only killer tahts issue is nurse, legion and knight are joke smoked two times because against legion you are injured and he injures you easily but thats all he does and looping is very strong against normal m1 killer and knight his ai is so easy to loop in most places with window and palett that if he doesnt shread palett with carnifex and hits you because he zoned you or assasin doesnt spawn on you when you are healing or doing gen so he gets hit because you are lacking distance or he pincer you with jailer (keep in mind his guards are buggy as twins every time when devs touch them so skilled survivor can easily loop on loops like shach both knight and his guard at the same time mostly jailer because other guards dissapear super fast if he is close), so you mentioned only one killer that isnt compleatly effected by paletts, most of them are and some have solid counterplay.
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A week ago. Not the first time. Won't be the last. Has never, ever happened to me as killer though. The killer experience is less erratic and thus doesn't feel as miserable, even if both your killer and survivior numbers are at the average, which mine are.
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I mean this is a team game in a very loose sense especially for soloQ. Why would you 1. Stay to see if random people escaped if you got tunneled out. And 2. Care about them…
Yeah you need to unhook heal repair gens but all of that stuff rewards the survivor they are literally doing it to secure points especially in lower MMR. It's why people bum rush hooks as soon as people get on them it isn't to help the team it's to secure those points before others get it. It's why the second to the last person hides in a locker for hatch, why people work on generators together despite it being less efficient. It's all bad habits ingrained into them since starting the game as it rewards the most points the fastest.
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I don't count streaks, but even 2 or 3 consecutive trials against a camping/tunneling/slugging Killer ruins the play session. At that point I start to see the writing on the wall and gradually spend more and more time sitting in the lobby.
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Some people actually do care about other people's experiences. I die for strangers as survivor and I spread hooks as killer because I'm not selfish. This is the exact argument for tunneling, this only-I-matter mindset.
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Sorry, but that take is ...erm... wrong. Two wrongs don't make one right. I don’t play S Tier killer, so why should I accept op SWF groups? Most game mechanics are balanced around low skill survivor and high skill killer. So in low rank the killer is strong and in high rank it flips to survivor.
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I keep telling everyone. Killers are insanely broken but they don't want to accept it. But they just keep on buffing killers. Its especially hard in solo q. Just a big camp/tunnel/slug fest. But survivors soon will be getting much needed help via update.
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I mean this is a team game in a very loose sense especially for soloQ. Why would you 1. Stay to see if random people escaped if you got tunneled out. And 2. Care about them…
There are definetly situations where I wouldn't care, if they escape. Thing is if killer managed to tunnel me early, then my teammates did something wrong → most likely unhooked too soon.
But overall I care about outcome of the match more than if I survived. I am more than happy to play in a way that is going to let others to escape even tho there is no way I am getting out of that alive→ basically chase as far from gates as possible.
It's why people bum rush hooks as soon as people get on them it isn't to help the team it's to secure those points before others get it
Those are players where I take it as a win if they die in the game…
Like everyone have right playing the game they want, but caring only about if you survived is simply going to be miserable experience.
I think overall BP and MMR systems for survivors should be adjusted so they are more team based oriented. That would help players shift their mindset.-3 -
Broken? Yea, but not the way you thing.
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For all the moaning about how the game should be super casual and non competitive people sure do seem obsessive over their escape rates and hidden MMR when the brackets are so wide it doesnt even matter for 99% of people anyway.
I'll go down and die for someone that contributed well for the team if they're on death hook, and trade so they escape, even more so if they practically carried the rest of the team with me. I play to win and even i don't really care about my escape rate all that much. Chases are the only fun part of survivor, chase me, tunnel me (i will waste your time gladly) i dont care, its way more fun than boring m1 simulator.
Survivor is just way more chill than killer tbh.
It's harder to do the same kind of stuff as killer (unless you've basically already won) because it can severely impact the game for you due to the time crunch nature of being the one vs the four and the nature of being at a huge disadvantage at the start and survivor objectives being way more time efficient than the killers (if survivors last more than 5s in chase). Its much easier being "nice" as survivor as there are others to pick up the slack in the match. You basically have to go into a game expecting to go against good survivors because if you don't you'll lose by the time to realise how efficient they are.
Plus it just makes a really boring game as killer tbh when you actively have to avoid playing your objective and sandbag yourself.
And as a player of both sides (currently highest playtime on survivor on dbd stats), my general observation is survivors do alot more to cause the stuff that gets moaned about more than the killers do honestly. Im sure some people on here won't like me saying that.
Post edited by Shinkiro on-3 -
I believe a lot of this debate comes down to how you interpret the objectives of each side. My interpretation of DBD is:
- The Survivor objective is to escape by any means necessary.
- The Killer objective is to kill all 4 Survivors before they can escape.
There is the caveat that as a horror fan, I do want to fear the killer, and I do want to be feared as the killer, so I do have some bias, but with this in mind, I tend towards the logic that opening the gate is the Survivor objective, and keeping it closed is the killer objective. Once gates are open we get scrambles that can swing results wildly as players act on very human instincts tied to the theme, but if players were to play a purely pragmatically (like they do in comp), the results of the trial are going to mostly be determined by when the gates open. Of your 5 possible outcomes 3/5 of them MUST result in the killer failing to hold to the gate, with a 3k without the gate opening only being possible thanks to hatch... and I think hatch throws this out of whack.
Rules as written, killing all 4 survivors is the killers objective. A 3k is considered a win for match making purposes, but the reality is a 3k can only at best be described a "lesser win", and at worst a "failure in preventing the gates from opening" if a Survivor gets out of a 5 gen powered gate. This is the killer NOT achieving their goal. Now in addition to this we also have the hatch, which also grants a 3k, even when the Survivors failed to power the gate... though this STILL can grant a gate escape if the killer finds hatch and closes it, which does seem a little unfair in this context, and this is why people slug for the 4k. However despite that, as someone who doesn't slug for the 4k, reading the rules of the trial as designed, a 3k is not a sign of a killer victory unless it is the more acceptable outcome of the survivor finding hatch. To truely win to my mind, a killer needs to hold the gate and get either 4k or a 3k hatch escape, and thus needs a reasonable chance of doing so... Within in that same breathe, I also believe a 2k can't really be called a draw at all, but an outright failure on the killers part to hold the gate... there is no hatch excuse on a 2k, you as the killer have undeniably failed to hold your objective.
To demonstrate this point, think of an simplified asym where you have 4 Knife players vs. 1 Gun player. You might be tempted to say "this is different because the killer doesn't die when they lose", but this is semantics, the goal of both games is to kill all 4 Knife/Survivor players. The penalty in DBD is less points and the Entity is disappointed to varying degress with you vs. you dying, but the point is still the same, you are punished for failing to kill all 4 players.
In our simplified asym, if kill rates were on average a 2k for the Gun player, that would mean they only win 1/5 of the time when they kill all 4 Knife players (a 4k). Knife players however, any of you that survive are victors, and this means the Knife side wins 4/5 scenarios, even if not all 4 Knife players are victors... you wouldn't turn to a Gun player here and say "well, you killed 3 of them before the last one got you, very well played, you basically won", no... he lost, and in this scenario he only wins 20% of the time. You'd need an absurdly high kill rate of something like 75% for the Gun player to have a 50% chance to win (I hate probability so am not inclined to do the full maths).
Now in practical terms a Gun vs. Knife in a 1vs1 should result in the Gun winning a significant majority of the time, kinda similar to DBD in fact, so to make it so we still have something to play for, we add an escape mechanic (hatch) for the Knife player. This is still the Gun player losing a strike on their kill rate, and is not considered a win for Knife, but Gun effectively "won" the game even without their final kill. This means that a good number of 3ks are likely hatch escapes, but it's still possible for 3ks to mean Gun player got killed... we still have this problem where the Gun side is failing the objective (> 60% of the time) more frequently than the Knife player side is on a 50% kill rate.
If hatch didn't exist at all, ironically there would be less reason to have a 50/50 kill rate, as the killer would need 4ks make up almost 40% of their game outcomes, as 3ks without hatch are not common. Despite that, I'd take the 50/50 argument a little more seriously in this context, because the difference of a 3k/4k (which is a whole extra kill to swing these stats we are so obsessed about) wouldn't hinge on a luck mechanic, and it would mean Killers win when they are winning most of the time, with only an odd scenario where they kill 3 players, that was close to becoming a 4k where they were genuinely beaten by the one remaining player... but since hatch exists, how can kill rates be objectively measured when we have this mechanic in the game? The killer has an additional means of losing a Survivor and lowering their kill rate, even when they are in a completely winning position...
Now there are a lot of reasons we have hatch, I'm not advocating for it's removal, as I feel it does more benefit than harm, but with this in mind 60% kill rate makes sense to me, as Survivors do have this additional escape mechanic. Yes there is slugging for the 4k, but that is a separate issue to kill rates, and a 60% killrate means that gates are opening roughly 50% of the time (0k, 1k, 2ks opens gates, 3ks and 4ks not)
All this is to say a 55-60% kill rate looks about right to me, though some killers sitting on 65%-70% kill rates is just plain not on to my book.
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im also yet to see mercy from survivors while ive given hatch multitude of times.
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I hate to say it but I think you're doing something real wrong because I cannot remember the last time I went on a losing streak this bad, if ever.
It very well might just be a case of getting tilted and continuing to play anyway, which makes you make mistakes. I make sure to take a break if I have 2-3 really bad games in a row, it keeps me sane after all this time playing DBD.
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Yup same, plenty of killers give second chances and pity escapes and extra points at the end (including me). Never had survivors give up gens so i can catch up, or pity hooks and kills or anything like that, just the usual BMing. The expectations are one way only it seems, Killer has to play for survivors sake but not the other way round in any capacity. If its so one way i dunno why people are surprised others don't really care about their opponents experience when they never afford the same courtesy back.
There shouldn't be any expectations of one sided "niceness" in a PvP game when everyone is playing within the rules. It's counter productive to the nature of PvP games.
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There is no MMR. It’s all about getting a match as soon as possible.
Game is killer sided by design, and that design has only gotten worse over the years as killers get stronger and stronger to sell DLC. Devs have no desire to upset their cash cows.
It’s a team game, but there are very few tools enabling the team to actually play as a team and communicate. If tunneling one person out is so effective, think about how disadvantageous having one survivor trolling or being inexperienced is. Even one bad random can ruin a 3-man, never mind a full team of solos.
Best you can do is simply not engage. Don’t feed the trolls in match. Don’t give the company your money.
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