http://dbd.game/killswitch
Tunneling Fatigue
I've been playing all day today since I'm off work. Mainly been playing survivor. Every single game today as survivor, the killer has tunneled. If it's me, I had to switch to an anti-tunnel build just to buy some time for the others so they only get a 1K. If it's not me, I'm left with unhooking and trying to body block, or just letting them struggle. The killers will run off and start chase with someone else, then break chase and come back after a few seconds to check on the hook. Or you'll have someone like a Ghoul or Blight get out of anti-camp range but stay in line of sight so as soon as they see someone coming to unhook, they dart straight for the tunnel. I know I know. It's a survivor and killer debate. Someone like Alien, Springtrap, or Demigorgon just TPs right back (I know Alien doesn't tp, but you know what I mean. If survivors don't escape, they cry. If killers don't get a 4K , they cry…
But I'm telling you. This is getting old. Soon enough, if Behavior doesn't actually implement a decent anti-tunnel, more and more survivor mains will leave. Every friend I used to play with has left because that strat gets frustrating and old. I've even deleted the game a few times, but I've been playing since early 2017, so I do love the game at face value. I think that Behavior focuses more on new content for you to buy, as opposed to balancing the game for all sides. New perk after new perk after new perk…you can't balance the game if you're pathway is release content, release content, release content. And I'm aware about the rework on PTB. I think it was a little much, but I also think that the outcry from killer mains makes the point. The killer shouldn't be aware of an unhook. Perks like DS shouldn't run out so fast, and shouldn't deactivate if you decide to heal or get on a gen. There's a ton of ways to go about balancing. Instead, they introduce crazy mechanics. I just know that out of 20 or 30 games today, every killer has tunneled. That's wild. 2v8 got old fairly quick, but at least it was a nice escape the reality that is tunneling.
And just for clarification, I do think that the game can be killer sided at times, and survivor sided at others. Maps, OP killer, OP builds on both sides, solo que vs swf, etc…….I get it. I just remember when killers actually used perks like BBQ to get 12 hooks with max points and actually earn a 4k.
Anyways, just me venting. I know I'll have some negative comments. I don't read any responses to my posts here, though, so do your worst.
Comments
-
Sadly just stop playing survivors. Ultimately you should just stop playing all together until they do something about it but I know some people can't just stop easily.
41 -
"I just know that out of 20 or 30 games today, every killer has tunneled."
Press X to doubt.
-36 -
I would take a break. I have, and while it sucks cause this was my favorite game, there’s no real incentive for changes to be made unless it affects the numbers. I’m a drop in the bucket, I’m aware, but everything starts small.
20 -
If none of my friends are online and available for communal suffering, I just play killer now.
14 -
anti tunnel should of launched with zero changes. Killers can suffer until it gets balanced properly, we’ve dealt with tunnel for years at this point. What happened to them releasing stuff and look at the data before they adjust?
10 -
there's just zero reason to play right now until the changes come through
32 -
Lol I got tunneled the other day because I bagged this plague. It was pretty funny. She threw the match.
-5 -
Problem is spreading hooks is not rewarded now since the changes wont come live (thank god the some of them were overdone in terms of punishing tunneling they punished even killers that werent tunneling) if killer spreads hooks he gets less time to get more hooks and kills which makes the tunneling still more rewarding than spreading hooks. In my opinion best option now for killer is mainly focus on two targets and get them out (no need for hardcore tunneling but prioritize them more than other survivors) and other survivors hook or slug,injure depends on what perks you have (perks than need tokens for hooks like grim or pain res) or what is most beneficial for you as killer, if you try to 12 hook solid team which sits on gens whenever they arent rescuing or being chased than killer must have fast downs or he looses gens fast and being on 1 gen left with no one death on hook with few hook stages isnt ideal and hard to get some results.
-21 -
Same and when we play we do nothing but meme. We expect to die and get tunneled so we go out with a bang and a whole lot of laughter. Other than that….survivor is the worst thing to even consider playing. Did two matches solo with a normal build and intent to just do gens. First match was a VPN myers who slugged and hard tunneled. The next was a Lich. Dude tunneled me for four gens. Not a single person hooked except my two hooks.
There is a reason why the BP bonus is almost always survivor. noone wants to touch the role.
20 -
Yeah it's all laughs for me too, but solo is just aggravation. The tunneling and slugging are one thing, but then add the useless teammates and it's horrid.
I've gotten the same anon Lich mutilple times who hard tunnels whoever they hook. It'd be nice f I didn't have to deal with the same ones over and over.
12 -
I just don’t understand how players don’t bring anti tunnel when tunneling is so rampant in the game right now it’s literally throwing the game at the load screen
-20 -
Just a thoroughly awful take. Also they literally did release it into the PTB and the feedback was resoundingly negative so they adjusted course.
-3 -
The equivalent of your idea is like claiming the killer finisher (original one where if killer slugged all survivors the game ended instantly and last downed got moried in animation without abandon escape, killer didnt need to hook anybody to win like this just slug all and the last standing survivor) should have been released with its flaws.
5 -
The Killer's rule is to execute Survivors, so prioritizing those hooked is only natural, right? How much assistance do Survivors need before they're satisfied...?
If you play as the Killer, you'll understand why they choose to tunnel or camp.-26 -
I really felt like I was being targeted this morning by the killers on the US East servers, due to my higher ping.
They would always go for me first, completely ignoring others, as you could see many times @cogsturningFortunately, aside from that awful Singularity (god how I hate that killer, when they use cheese tactics) who was toxic in chat as well, and the bodyblocking "count to 10" Wraith, the other ones learned a valuable lesson. Don't hyperfocus on the players who actually knows how to loop.
5 -
Singularity is hard to get rid of when he locks on you and shaming wraith for bodyblocking thats part of his kit without both uncloak reducing addons its very hard to get hit fast (cant get hit so easily with boosted m1 when survivor is still running) so in many places he needs to cut survivor off so he doesnt make it to window or palett.
-7 -
Tbh if there werent so ouvertuned antitunnel punishments that punish killer who doesnt even tunnel and 30 seconds of haste and endurence in endgame isntead of 10 (busted number just free escape with 30) I would win more with basekit pop and killer bonuses when i dont tunnel with some m1 but now its still punishing every survivor runs some antitunnel ds,dead hard so if you hook everyone then you gave them strong perks but if you focus on two survivors till one of them dies then its more better than tunneling just one guy hardcore and sometimes its necesery to tunnel with 3 hooks on 1-2 gen left (not hard to get this situation with m1 against good survivors if they predrop and loop well) ,many ds users are trying weaponize ds to force bodyblock and grab action for their ds even if you dont tunnel which is sick but many lobbyes are full of ds and dead hard so no surprise they are doing this.
-9 -
was playing with my duo yesterday for about 6 hours straight and i’m not even trying to be funny when i say this - every single game the killer was either hard tunneling or hard slugging (with perks to help like infectious fright and forced hesitation). It got so bad to the point where i had to start bringing babysitter, BT, and STB just to give my other teammates somewhat of a chance against the turbo tunneling killer and my duo had to bring unbreakable to counter the potential 4 man slugs.
I said it before and i’ll say it again. They should’ve waited until the day before the new chapter or on the same day as the chapter release to tell the community that they’re delaying the tunneling and slugging reduction systems. The amount of tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging ever since that announcement has skyrocketed. It’s not fair for the survivors and i don’t see how it’s fun for the killer doing the same hard tunneling and proxy camping every match.
22 -
I used to bring antitunnel perks pretty often, but I stopped because I was still dying consistently. If they were stronger, they’d definitely see more play, but right now they just don’t offer enough compared to perks like SB or Resurgence. I mean when DS was longer, yeah, everyone brought it and killers actually didn’t tunnel because the risk was too high. These current antitunnel perks aren’t punishing enough to offset the value of getting the tunnel out. Even when you build entirely around countering tunneling, most players admit it won’t necessarily save you. At best, it helps your team.
That creates this weird acceptance: I’ll run these perks, but I know I can still get tunneled out. But At least someone else might live. It feels kinda like you’re put in a corner where the choice isn’t “win or lose” but “lose… or lose slightly better”
19 -
The issue is always the same. Camping/tunneling/slugging are catchup mechanics and perform as expected on that front. But they aren't limited in their use and can quickly turn the tides at any stage of the trial. So in fact a lot of assistance is required against an overtly unfair and unbalanced set of tools.
11 -
How much help do survivors need? Since when have we had ANY help until the coming update? Survivor perks and maps have been getting nerfed for a while now. Pretty much every map is 3/4 the size they were.
16 -
I’m always up for communal suffering lol
3 -
You know the plan - we both run Lisa, you loop them. Then when they see me; they’ll think it’s you and leave me! That’s my anti-tunnel strategy lol
7 -
I'm not seeing too much tunnelling really in my solo queue games at the moment. There is the occasional tunnel at 5 gens left but no more so than usual and certainly not 30 games in a row.!
What I am seeing in my games as killer is teams doing gens extremely quickly. Chases need to be very short or you have very little chance of winning.
The past week or two in my survivor solo queue matches I've been messing around running gen builds. For example, a commudious toolbox with combinations of Fast Track, Stake Out, Hyper Focus, Bardic, Built to Last and Deja Vu. It's actually scary how quickly you can do gens with these perks. I've had multiple games over in 5 minutes with everyone escaping, or killers simply rage quitting after the last gen pops at 4:30. All it takes is one team mate to have a good chase and the game is as good as over unless it's a Blight or Billy running multiple siow down perks. Doing this my escape rate is well over 50%.
Now imagine groups running coordinated builds on comms.
The game is at the point where it's unbalancable with all the perks in play and any changes like what the recent PTB had are going to have opposite effects at different MMR levels. I don't see a way everyone will be happy.
-8 -
All the downvoters need to show us how it’s done
-12 -
I think your definition for tunnelling is too lenient if you're getting 20-30 games in a row with a tunnelling killer.
-6 -
I do wish teammates would bring more anti-tunnel perks. But none of the anti-tunnel perks are base-game and many dont want to spend money or shards on a character just for one perk that isnt that strong. DS is one time use, Dead hard is easy to bait, shoulder the burden is just buns. Only half decent and consistent Anti-tunnel perk is off the record and most of the time when i get tunneled off hook I loop the killer past the perks activate time and go down after the perk is no longer active.
Honestly a player base should not have to rely on non-base game perks to counter a toxic and common playstyle. Its part of the reason we say this game is pay-to-win and horrible for new players.11 -
I think most people agree it does. As far as I know, all it takes into account are escapes and deaths. It's needs to be more complex. Factor in bodyblock/protection hits, gens done, chase length, chases won or lost, end game saves, hatch ratting, etc. Upper MMR requires teamwork to survive, even in solo, so the ability to work as a team needs to be assessed in MMR shifts too.
7 -
I think they are just offended by some facts and cant insult me like some salty people do in endgame chatt so they throw downvotes but i dont give a damm, its just logical you want from killers to go for more time consuming way to get kills and not hard tunnel but you have few tools how to do it you can punish it bu this wont solve the problem only deepens it (if you only give survivors better antitunnel and antislug and killer nothing to compansate like unique hooks then what happens is simple weaker killers became hardcore to play some will be unplayable and people will play more a-tier based killers and some killers will left which will lead to less survivors as well beacause they will play against same killers with less killer players), to fix it the devs need to punish tunneling but not so much like they did it now and reward killers for 12 hook games (which they did so they arent so oblivious after all and know how to fix it).
-9 -
This content has been removed.
-
It would be great if they just tried elusive effect and nothing else for next patch, PTB anti tunnel had too much stuff I guess, probably overly complex for average player
but the most interesting part of ptb was elusive effect and the unhook notification being hidden, the game really needs this badly it's in a terrible state right now, again tried to play today it's just not worth it
8 -
As a killer main who occasionally plays survivor too, I get it, it's frustrating, but when 2 gens pop during your first chase you really need to capitalize on any and every mistake that survivors make or even play optimally by not letting them unhook for free. If I'm playing an m1 killer against good survivors on a big map especially it basically becomes a necessity to camp and tunnel because every survivor will use exhaustion perks and start running as soon as they hear my terror radius so it'll take 40s+ just to catch up to them and force them to play around a loop instead of holding shift w and pre dropping (vs waiting near the hook where you can get a free hit when they unhook).
I have thought of a solution to this but it may require more balancing from the devs and I doubt they'll even read this but whatever. They've probably already considered it even. My idea is either a perk or make it default that when a survivor gets hooked they automatically get sent to a sort of holding cell separate to the map entirely where they have to wait for 1 min. In this holding cell they can't do gens or play at all basically but after the 1 min they spawn somewhere outside the killers terror radius (or if it's a stealth killer minimum of 40m away from the killer). Imo they should spawn back in healthy because 1 min is a long time and they'd be easier to find if they were injured. Also, what could be nice is letting the 'jailed' survivor spectate other survivors while they wait. After the 1 min is up the survivor loses a hook state and the killer should still be able to proc perks that rely on hooking survivors.
This would encourage the killer to look for other survivors to chase while the one he just hooked is in jail and as long as the killer isn't completely mismatched he should be chasing a survivor when the one he just hooked gets out of jail making tunnelling much trickier/ less effective. You might argue tunnelling is still an option for the killer with this idea but it'd be much less effective because he'd have to waste a lot of time trying to find where the survivor he hooked spawned back in.
-9 -
Apologies my dear survivor, i'll run to the opposite side of the map and let survivors unhook for free when I get my first hook after 2 gens pop
-17 -
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they tried doing that and got inconsistent results. The gameplay is too varied to reliably use it, but not doing so is incredibly punishing as well.
1 -
well the devs should give us killers a reason to not tunnel there’s no incentive to not tunneling it’s the fastest and most efficient way of winning
-6 -
Back when gen speeds were really fast and there were only 2 hook states with no basekit borrowed time and moris being usable after 1 hook, getting killed fast in dbd didnt feel that bad, it was more of an oh well next round. Now that everything has been drawn out and survivors getting many more chances to survive, being targetted to use up all of one persons chances to play now feels very personal. Like sure you get to win every time but the person on the other side would rather try to report you if they could than say gg. And everyone else in the group is just miserable till it ends and often dont even want to bother trying anymore. Tunneling ripa the fun out of both sides for a guaranteed win, like grenade spamming the enemies spawn point in games like battlefield or call of duty. Why use guns when the most effective means of getting most kills are grenades against someone who cant even take 2 steps? But wheres the fun in that? I can understand tunneling as a means to turn a game around if you are getting gen rushed, but right at the start go for instant easy win mode seems like itd eventually get boring?
5 -
it felt like that because everything was more op for survivors. Dead Hard, DS, Spine Chill, Resilience combo, pallets everywhere, infinite loops, pallet vacuum, old Iron Will, old maps to name some. IMO the game was much more fun when everything was broken for both sides.
-3 -
Thats hard truth, they tried in current ptb but antunbel punishments were just busted and punished every weaker killer for no reason, if they kept the super buffed antitunnel killer just cant tunnel you easily because he wont be able to even find the unhooked survivor and reward for not tunneling wasnt that bad but the tunneling punishments with the fact the haste and endurence effects are 30 seconds after all gens are done and gates are powered is just overkill.
-5 -
The hidden notification was like 10 seconds which is a lot so like 5 is ok but 10 thats too much, another bs was killer aura reveal I thought it would be like breakout or babysitter so you will se killers aura for like 4-8 seconds but it was more like old object of obsession which is not good thing.
-6 -
Well, they just tried that in this PTB, and look how that went. If they just push those incentives to live without the punishments, it'll just make tunneling even stronger, and thus Killers will rely even more on it. That's why punishments are needed.
Did they go too far? Perhaps, but they could have been tweaked before hitting live.
8 -
It's not so much about the variety of factors, its that MMR systems have to be closer to zero sum mechanics. One goes up, the other goes down in roughly equal amounts. Mechanics that are linked to rewarding play are more impacted by play time than skill.
You have other factors, gameability and difficulty of implementation in an accurate manner that are contributing problems, but MMR's function off win/loss conditions and comparing existing MMR.
1 -
Why should they do this? Play by the rules and stop taking unintended shortcuts. On PTB killers still just tried to exploit the new mechanics instead of adjusting their gampleay according to the intended gameplay. Thats the actual issue: killer mindset is twisted.
4 -
I do believe that was the point of the PTB.
4 -
Buffs without penalties aren't enough. I already don't tunnel so the proposed buffs would have helped players like me with almost zero chance of being hit by the penalties. So one group of players would be elevated while the tunnelers would just keep tunneling because it already works for them. So survivors lose out regardless of which flavor of opponenet they get.
6 -
Survivors are getting a lot of extra pallets and some tiles on several maps to reduce dead zones this update.
-4 -
Of course killers would do what they can to work around the system considering how punishing it was for them. Don't forget survivors turned the whole punishment system into a weapon they can and will exploit the hell out of it to intentionally punish killers or force them into making a bad choice that will only work in survivors favor.
Killers are suppose to kill survivors how it's done doesn't matter to much. Be like forcing a cartoon/movie villain to play by the rules to the point they can't be villains anymore.
-2 -
Exactly. Tunnelers would tunnel then go for the buffs in 3v1
11 -
This is the problem with the ptb, and ptbs in general. Aside from the fact that a massive chunk of the player base is automatically excluded, a whole bunch of sweats and content creators were logging on to see how far they could exploit. How much meaningful data about the average, everyday match can you gain from that?
It should matter. It's just a game. You don't need to smash other people so you can have some stats or something. There's no prize or trophy, just fun or frustration.
Post edited by cogsturning on10 -
Survivors didnt turn anything into a weapon. Stop telling obvious lies. Get some arguments, but wait, you dont have any to begin with.
8 -
Many people loading up in PvP game with the thought they would actually smash their opponents. It’s a joy of PvP genre and their fun/frustration. The issue DBD failed in providing fair challenges, so average player plays against system rather than player. On both sides. And instead of fixing it, many people ask for making it more severe. More systematic limitations, base kit buff for simply completing objective or even hand handling in losing. The same mindset that creates characters like Ghoul with auto hit scan or another second chance on top of second chance on survivor.
It’s just weird calling game PvP, provide some hints on mythical MMR and then expecting people care about fun of their opponents more than their own. Especially when media of the game heavily orients on challenges and sweating. Of course if it’s PvP there, sweats will take a big part of player base.
Looking at stuff which is most popular, it shows average player care about making game l a mix of competition factor with funny builds and their variability, rather than abstract fun u are always talking about where games finishes as tie just because killer/survivor babysitting other side, handcuffing themselves. Many people have fun playing on their max, many people have fun playing chill, so maybe it’s reasonable to separate them instead of trying to force mindset they don’t share?
“Fun” can have many different forms. Fun can mean to have a trophy, and in PvP genre, this trophy is a win. Assymetrical genre of DBD doesn’t cancel it out. U won’t be happy with it, but because it’s PvP, this fun usually meant for being earned through outplaying your opponent. The DBD issue is instead of outplaying opponents, killers outplay efficiency and survivors outplay unbalanced RGN and zero organisation in solo q, fighting with system rather than player. Tunneling appeared due to this. Tunneling fatigue appeared due to this. It’s a cycle of responding and u can’t remove something from this chain without breaking it.U would be surprised, but playing for spreading hooks and play as chase machine on auto pilot relying only on your opponent being worse (which shouldn’t happen in any healthy game) just for some base kit buffs instead of paying attention to macro and having actually challenging chases can be as same not fun as playing for 3vs1 with auto-pilot tunneling 10 games in a row. Depends on people’s preferences.
-4
