I can’t believe survivors are ok with being treated like this
Comments
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Could have sworned killers got no gen regression after 8 kicks.
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If you consider accurately describing Survivor gameplay to be bad faith, I'd appreciate a warning that you are simply looking to bash Killer and defend Survivor, not have an honest discussion.
Killer is the harder role; it has proven so time and time again. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, mind you; it goes with the territory of playing a 4v1 game. The team-based role will always be the more relaxed one, because the burden of winning the game is split among four people.
But saying a role that can literally spend an entire match doing nothing but moving from Point A to Point B and holding M1 is more difficult is disingenuous at best.
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This is hilarious.
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Killer is the harder role; it has proven so time and time again.
"Proven" where? In your own experience? If you have this undeniable proof that Killer is harder, I'd love to see it.
The team-based role will always be the more relaxed one, because the burden of winning the game is split among four people.
Actually, that's another part of what makes the Survivor role so frustrating, because it is MUCH harder to coordinate with other people you can't even communicate with. And oftentimes those teammates will have completely different goals than you, which will lead to the entire team's downfall in many cases.
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Which game is harder? Cookie Clicker or Super Mario 64? Unless you're going to argue that standing completely still and holding down a button is somehow more challenging than having to move and react to things in real time, I think we both know which role is more difficult.
Sure, team games come with a lot of factors that make it frustrating; it's possible, quite common actually, to lose through no fault of your own when playing a team game. But that also makes it equally likely that you will win when you really didn't deserve it. And it means you always have something or someone else to blame when you lose.
Whereas in a 1v1 game, generally speaking, you have no one to blame but yourself; only you can see your mistakes, and only you can beat yourself up over it. Hence why casual players tend to gravitate towards team games over 1v1 games- the success of games like League of Legends and Overwatch (As flawed as those games may be) was no accident.
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I believe most of their point is that teammates dont count towards difficulty.
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Prove it.
All you've done is state "nu uh" when you've encountered resistance. We KNOW you dont value anything except mechanical skill, which is patently ridiculous.
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Killer needs mechanical skill AND strategic skill to succeed, for the entire duration of the match. They don't have the luxury of being able- nay, encouraged- to just take a break from moving around the map for 90 seconds while they plan out their next move.
And no, the existence of camping or tunneling does not mean that Killer macro doesn't exist. I assure you that even if they could chase as well as comp players, Killers who just mindlessly tunnel would never last in comp DbD.
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Have you ever looked at a comp game? Tunneling and slugging is pretty much all it is…
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Yes, I looked at this one right here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqkbvsyC-hg
Game 1 (Invictus playing Wraith): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 4 escapes.
Game 2 (Elysium playing Wraith): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 4 kills.
Game 3 (Elysium playing Ghostface): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 4 kills.
Game 4 (Invictus playing Ghostface): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 1 kill.
Game 5 (Invictus playing Ghoul): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 2 kills.
Game 6 (Elysium playing Ghoul): Killer willingly passes up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Gets 2 kills.
Need I go on?
Post edited by Monlyth on-10 -
once again, prove it.
I would say you've clearly got an agenda or a bias against Survivor, since all I've ever seen you do is talk down to them as if every player is skillless.
But Im offering you a chance to prove it, all I've seen is words so far.
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I'm usually not one to do this, but after seeing him make like three different threads (that I know of, it's likely more) devolve into a war which escalates until it goes into personal stuff (a mod decided to close one of them because it went too far) I would frankly prefer to not engage.
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Survivor's main objective is to spend 90 seconds standing in one place and holding M1.
And, well, that should be it. That should literally be all the proof you need to understand why some of us might think Survivor doesn't take as much skill to play.
Seriously, how is that not enough?
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That'd be like saying, "the killers objective is to just sit 16m away from the hook for 90 seconds while doing nothing."
It's bad faith, it's disrespecting the time and effort people put in to learning and improving and it's unequivocally incorrect.
via that logic, comp players arent actually good. They are just regular people who we just pluck from pubs and put into competitive.
Genuinely, what a terrible string of logic, if you can call it that. I understand being biased, but boiling one side down to "uhhhhhh EZ Mode 4 sure" is genuinely baffling levels of us vs them bias.
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ah, noted.
If they attempt to do so, I will cease engagement, I have little interest in delving into personal matters, be they mine or someone else. Until then, I will carry on, but I appreciate the warning.
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No, it isn't. I literally just accurately described what Survivor's main objective is, and you call it "bad faith" and "disrespect".
And I notice you have no problem claiming, without proof, that Killer is the easier role. So you clearly have no problem "disrespecting the time and effort people put into learning the game" so long as it's being done to Killer players.
You really are just here to badmouth Killer and defend Survivor at this point. You should be ashamed of yourself for this level of dishonesty.
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The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
So all I need to do is Survivor is sit on a generator. Never mind the Killer sneaking up on me who could snatched me up. The teammates that may be hanging on a hook? They don't exist.
This is essentially what you're saying here.
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Nice job putting words in my mouth, but no.
A Killer easily makes hundreds of little decisions in real time throughout a match, at almost every stage of the game. Whereas a Survivor, for a significant percentage of the match, will be doing nothing but holding M1, keeping an eye out for the Killer, and keeping an eye on their HUD. There's no real decisions to be made, apart from planning your next move after your current task is done.I probably should have left this thread a long time ago, tbh; this was always just going to be a Survivor circle jerk.
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"People disagree with my bad takes, I knew you were all Survivor mains"
No, Im just not insanely biased against Survivor.
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The classic turnaround since you have no proof.
I've also used your own logic to describe Killer. You just dont like it when it describes your role. So let's make it accurate instead of hyperbolic?
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But your exact words were:
Survivor's main objective is to spend 90 seconds standing in one place and holding M1.
So no, I'm not putting words in your mouth.
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I literally gave you the proof you asked for; you just dismissed it by doing a turnaround and making an extremely false equivalence.
So where's the part where I said "Without looking out for the Killer or watching their HUD"? Because if I didn't say that, you know what that's called? Putting words in someone's mouth.
This is argumentation on the level of "I love pancakes" "So you hate waffles?!"; it's pathetic.
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You gave me a hyperbolic statement which was not based in reality nor practicality.
Somehow, I am not surprised.
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So have I been playing Survivor wrong this whole time? Is doing gens not how you win? Because I could have sworn that getting on a gen and staying there for 90 seconds was how you win. It was in the tutorial and everything.
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Is killing people not how you win?
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See, that's what I mean by doing a turnaround with an extremely false equivalence.
I don't know if you know this, but when you try to kill Survivors, generally speaking, they will run away and try to stop you. You have to track them, chase them, and outplay them to accomplish your objective. And even if you just sit in front of them after you've won a singular chase against them, you can't just facecamp them; the anti-camp meter will fill and they'll be able to unhook themselves.
And even if you catch them again (Which, need I remind you, is still considerably more difficult than standing in front of a gen and holding a button) and camp them again AND nobody comes to do altruism plays, by the time they die on hook, all the gens will be done and you'll lose.
There, I humored your bad-faith remark. Prepare your next bad-faith argument.
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But you conveniently ignored all the difficult parts of playing Survivor just to make your point. That doesn't prove your points at all.
The only thing that's been proven is your bias towards killers. That's it.
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Survivors, generally speaking, they will run away and try to stop you.
But that's not included in "sitting on a gen for 90 seconds".
So which is it? Are survivors just holding m1 and oblivious to their surroundings (as you've claimed this entire thread), or is there more to survivor gameplay, like reacting to the killer (as everyone else is trying to tell you)?
Because you can't have it both ways, and suddenly, when the killer needs to kill, survivors have more than just "hold m1 on a gen" in order to win.
Interesting.
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Could have fooled me.
You die on every hill. You argue every little point of minutiae, forever. You deny anything I say, no matter how absurd it seems to do so. You assume the counter-position to every position I offer, play devil's advocate about everything, muddy the waters on every single fact, no matter how inconsequential or self-evident it may be.
What other conclusion am I meant to reach here?
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Which is it?
Is it just 90 seconds doing nothing but M1 to win or is there, shocker, more to it than that??? My God, who could've predicated that?
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That you might be wrong?
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Mate, you've been trying to tell me for the past couple hours that doing gens takes just as much skill as anything Killer does. I don't understand how you've even kept a straight face.
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Because you refuse to entertain the idea that theres more than gens UNLESS you're playing Killer, in which case the Survivors are just so so hard to down but that's not applicable when playing Survivor at all
I'm not keeping a straight face, I'm laughing my ass off at the hoops you make yourself jump through to justify your crazy take.
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Oh, don't worry, so am I. The image of you sweating your butt off as you literally just stand in place and hold M1 in front of a generator is quite amusing.
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More like sweating to win a chase after getting tunneled off of hook.
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So you admit doing gens is easy, then?
Was that really so hard? My goodness.
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What? I didnt even mention gens in my comment lmao what is bro reading
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Survivors are doing much more than just gens. You are decribing a scenario where the killer is afk.
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Even if the Killer isn't afk, they can't be everywhere at once, contrary to what some Survivor players seem to believe. Doing gens is how you win, you're always going to be spending a considerable amount of time just standing in place and holding M1.
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Can I just say, and I mean this with all due respect, you really need to take a chill pill. I don't know what it is that gives you such a strong personal and moral stake in these conversations, but whatever it is, I genuinely hope you find it and you don't keep acting like this. It really doesn't do you any favors.
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If you want to argue that Survivors have more down time because they're often sat at a gen, then that's fair. You do (hopefully) have teammates who realise they need to spread the burden of doing objectives like saving, healing, wasting the Killer's time and yes, doing gens. But unless you play a high mobility Killer, it's not as if Killers don't also spend a fair amount of time patrolling gens, proxying hooks, searching for Survivors or just generally moving from A to B. That grunt work is the Killer equivalent to sitting on gens.
Survivors might not be engaged with the Killer at all times, but when the time comes to be chased, the skill of a Survivor can still be very impactful to the game. A bad chase can be game ending or at the very least will put your team on the backfoot. You can't possibly be arguing that chase is a place where Killers can demonstrate their abilities but the same isn't also true for Survivors. Plus, there's body blocking, beamer and sabo saves and tanking hits for teammates. I'd say there's also Survivor skill expression in being stealthy and misdirecting the Killer, but not everyone agrees with that.
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When someone's being toxic, I call it out. This forum's become bloated with trolls who argue in bad faith constantly and then get mad at you when you point it out. People have gotten way too comfortable saying things on the internet that would get them punched in the face in real life.
Polite discussion with such people normalizes them. How bad could they be if you aren't treating them as though they are behaving badly?
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That's my point though. I don't see anyone being super aggressive, so I don't know why we need to throw down. I've seen the other threads and people are getting banned from interacting with you. It's getting out of hand. Again, I'm not trying to call you out or be a d*ck. I'm just saying you should chill out.
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I've seen the other threads and people are getting banned from interacting with you.
Wow, that is…completely backwards. 😕
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I didn't say they were being super aggressive, I said they were being dishonest and intentionally provocative.
Tone isn't everything; manipulative people will often say some of the most vile things imaginable with a smile on their face, and a "Please" and "Thank you".
If people like that get removed from the forums, good. They're not contributing to constructive feedback or productive solutions.
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Alright. I'll leave you to it then.
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?
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Genuinely, can you explain who you believe is being toxic here and why? Who are the “bad faith trolls” and what exactly has been said in this discussion that you think warrants “a punch in the face in real life” ?
Disagreeing with your opinion isn’t the same as being toxic. At the same time, you’ve said there’s no skill involved in an entire role and compared it to cookie clicker. Can you see how that kind of language could come across as dismissive or offensive? The tone you’re accusing others of using is very similar to what you’re doing yourself.
If every disagreement is framed as “I’m just stating facts and anyone who disagrees is toxic or biased,” then there’s no room for good faith discussion at all. How do you expect conversations to move forward if other players experiences or perspectives are automatically invalidated if they don’t match your own?
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You just can't accept people disagreeing with you. First the punch in the face, then getting removed from the forums. Yep
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You're confusing disagreement with dishonesty.
It'd be one thing if people were honestly engaging with my points, but when people make flatly ridiculous arguments like "Doing gens is just as difficult as anything Killer does", that is a red flag that they are not arguing in good faith.
And there's no room for good faith discussion with someone who isn't arguing in good faith. It takes two to tango. I can't have a reasonable discussion if I'm not talking to a reasonable person. And I can't beat someone with kindness if they don't value kindness.
So all that's left is to either leave the discussion entirely or call them out for bad behavior by accurately describing what they're doing.
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