http://dbd.game/killswitch
DC
Comments
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Well, no. Because you can get multiple free DCs and only then do the too-short penalties start to kick in.
Revert them to how they used to work and then they'll actually get hit with the penalties.
-2 -
Either you've gotten extremely unlucky, or they are getting hit with DC penalties.
A 33% DC Rate, even with two DC's, should suggest people do eat the penalties. They might be too short, but they should still be hitting them.
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I think it's generally agreeable that there's still stuff to do in making the game more enjoyable for both sides and doing those will reduce disconnects a little bit. However, that being said. The big disconnecting issue we see today is a result of poor attitudes than anything else. People aren't disconnecting because they find themselves in "no win" conditions all the time, they disconnect because they THINK they're in a "no win" condition. You've probably seen it yourself, a match that winnable but either your teammate or the enemy survivor just gives up and DC's or self-sacrifices themselves for no reason. And I don't know what Behaviour can do about that aspect.
-2 -
Because I was under the impression, since there haven't been any patch notes and I don't play Survivor, that the system was the same as the one that was implemented during the last patch.
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What? Two free DCs and then penalties that get aggressively worse, don't count down outside of the queue, and only degrade after 20 trials is lighter than penalties that naturally decay every 24 hours?
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Yes. What matters is the immediacy of them. Allowing someone to DC from a match and instantly requeue encourages this lobby-shopping style of gameplay. The penalties getting aggressively worse is meaningless if the first ones are free because these people are avoiding reaching those stages. 20 matches is not that much for someone whose main or only game is DbD. The first few DCs are the crucial ones to target. There needs to be an immediate penalty that delays the requeuing. Even if it is just short like 60 seconds or a couple of minutes.
When DCing and requeuing is quicker than naturally playing out the rest of the match, people have no incentive to stay. If anything (or nothing) happens that they dislike? They just DC and find a match they deem "better" (which is an abitrary metric these days but still) in record time
-5 -
Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason.
It will just change forms if the penalities tighten. You said you have a DC about every third match. That's about how often someone tries to suicide out of my killler matches. I have daily matches where a survivor chases ne instead of me chasing them. I have locker spams, pallet slams, AFKing under hook, luck-offering unhooking into second stage, and suicidal body blocking. That's penalty-free in terms of automatic detection, as long as they don't die too fast. If people want to leave, they'll find a way.
Why is addressing that there's an issue on the survivor end of this game so hard?
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ngl I totally get the DC against certain killers. I don’t do it myself but I get it. Also many factors why ppl will DC.. like killers with high ping getting a free hit can be infuriating for survivors, or OP killers, it’s also annoying if you’re constantly against the same killer over and over again.
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I dunno. I'd say DBD has been my main game overall for years now and 20 trials are a SLOG. Not saying it's that way for everyone, but I'm sure it is for a lot. And 2 free ones is still a very small window. That being said, if there are enough complaints about it, I can see them dropping it back to 1.
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I will always bring up how in league, the game a ton of people think has a worse community than dbd this isn't a problem. You'll watch someone blame someone completely, say they're going to run it down and afk, then they don't. They go mid, they go side, the go farm and then most of the time show up to fights too. You can't leave the game, you can't afk, you can't type very harshly at all anymore, you can't hard int anymore. Best you can do is soft grief and that's more work than actually playing, so people actually play. That's the key line, when it's more work to leave/grief the game people will play it out. They'll go sit on a gen.
The "they'll just grief the game in a different way" has always been conjecture because we really have never had a decent period in dbd where people were forced to stay in the game in all forms.
Even if the devs fix that "root causes" that everyone has been saying since I joined this forum, the mentality is so ingrained in survivors they will keep doing it. Most of the time people bring up survivors dcing on this forum it's because they are doing it over nothing, not because of whatever semi understandable thing happened to them that game.
Is there any real reason not to add in these penalties and also fix the issues people have with it? So we punished tunneling, slugging, camping and whatever other reason, can we also put the penalties in too? I see 0 reason not to.
If you do reply please do not say but this is an assym.
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Even if the first DC or two are "free," they really aren't. Those DC's stay on your record until you play out 20 matches afterwards. And the DC timer doesn't even tick down unless you actually go to queue up. It doesn't tick down when you simply turn off the game and walk away. That's definitely more harsh than simply waiting 24 hours for the DC point to get wiped. (And I suspect that's why people keep queueing up, because it's the only way to get rid of your DC penalties.)
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Very well said. Agree completely.
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But this is asymm.
For real though, that's been my whole point. Just punishing doesn't work, just rewarding doesn't work. Do both, there's no reason not to.
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i think trying to get people to q up to remove the penalty isnt a good thing. it encourages people that already stressed out and reached their limit to continue playing the game where they will attempt to go next and take out the frustrations on other players.
previous system gave people 24 hours to cool off, it didnt say "we know you have had enough and likely to dc again or go next but keep playing to remove the penalty"
with this in mind, the old system was better. i try to think about things as me being in that situation. if im going to DC because im frustrated that much time after time then i get a chance to reduce it by playing 20 matches… thats 20 matches i can go next in (pretty quickly done maybe under 2 hours) bingo i earnt free DC again. for someone that plays 8 hours consecutively 2 hours of going next to earn more free DC is nothing.
old system… if im going to DC due to being stressed and annoyed time after time then i get hit with a 60 sec pen, 5min i think ok another time i do this im getting hit hard for a full 24 hours with no going back so better play the game or come back tomorrow. i can go next as many times as i like in 24 hours but my pen remains the same so there is no incentive for me continue and intentionally go next to reduce my timer.
i say bring back 24 hour timer and let people cool off, dont let them continue to play when they are that frustrated with the game.
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Its silly to be this upset over dcing over a game. Like wow. lol
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almost as silly as being upset by being tunneled in a game lol
-2 -
100%. Not only did it cool them off, it kept them out of the queue in a healthy way. The current system is more of a form of cruel and unusual punishment. It's designed to make you feel like you did something bad by DCing more than it's designed to keep you out of the game for a minute. Especially with the way that it's bugged, you're meant to feel extra bad if you were tunneled hard enough.
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I promise you, if the devs are smart and work with competent people within the dbd community they can make everything bar soft griefing able to penalized.
If people over 50 hours of game time are overall going down in less than 15 seconds reputedly, suspension. This negates griefing by walking up to the killer or suicidal body blocking while protecting new players. It would record that behavior over many games as to not hurt people having a funny interaction with the killer every 5 games. Same with afking, the system can be tuned to after a player has a decent chunk of time for them not to afk under hook without suspension. Luck offerings can be joutright removed. There are ways and they are truly necessary for this games long term health.
As others have said, survivors griefing each other actually leads to a repetitious cycle of survivors getting more frustrated. You can address the issues but the mentality will remain, one that's been around for a decade. With the communities current mind set you could outright remove tunneling, camping, slugging, every S tier killer and add the ability for survivors to ban 1 killer each, there would still be a 15%+ dc/suicide rate. So both things need to be addressed.
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Your point was slightly different, meaning punishment doesn't work at all. But whatever, seems people really like convenient goal shift of topics here.
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Exactly! We all say if people get frustrated with the game enough to DC, they should stop playing. But the current penalty system forces people to keep playing anyway, by queueing up to tick down the timer, and then playing more matches to remove the penalty points. Which makes no sense.
Hopefully now people can understand how flawed this penalty system is. I'm baffled at how anyone can support it, no matter how frustrated they get by the DC's.
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Suicide attempts in my matches aren't that fast. People getting downed in 15s are likely genuine AFKs who got nabbed by a dishonorable killer using Lethal and taking the free hook. Being away from your screen for a few seconds isn't throwing the match and doesn't need that sort of penalty, even if it's chronic. People suicide out when they get frustrated or feel the match (or rather, their own escape) is lost. Is there a point when it's okay to give up?
This is from one of my matches a couple hours ago:
This Mikalea stood or tbagged by a hook three or four times while I ignored her. This was the last time. Match was clearly over. So is this one fine or no? Is it okay at this point but not at the point a gen back with an additional living teammate?
Had this Nancy a few days ago:
Every time she saw me she got off her gen and chased me to die. She spent more time chasing me than I spent chasing my opponents. It was so annoying I kept becoming bats just to get away from her and her pain noises. This match was obviously a stomp, and with a DC too. Are they just supposed to run in circles and be toyed with until the end or is it okay to just give up sometimes? Like, where's the line between griefing and admitting defeat? And who determines it? Will it be based around time? On the ratio of gens complete vs amount of living teammates? When she wasn't tormenting me this Nancy at least worked gens, while the Vee dying in the background ratted. Details matter. Motivations are complex. You think a company who can't release a chapter without a random beam on the loading screen or a god-sized tambourine will be able to make anything remotely nuanced in this regard? There have been a number of people in the forum saying--just recently--that they've had grade reductions for being killed too fast. There's already a system and it's flawed. We dont need another one penalizing the wrong thing and ignoring the real problems.
And who is getting downed on purpose every 5 games? Who are these trolls that I've never, ever seen? All I've seen close to that is memeing.
If you want to address both genuine gameplay issues and random disgruntledness then lets address both, but efforts to improve the survivor experience have been routinely taken out back and shot. And, as I said previously, this seems to be a heavily survivor-sided issue, yet people insist it's just random reasons and minor inconveniences despite that being pure assumption, and despite killler DCs being drastically less common.
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Here's another scenario. I once went against a Huntress with Iri Head hatchets. Somehow all three teammates got slugged in the same tile. Feng Min was hooked, but Jill and Carlos continued to lay there, not moving at all. With Kindred, I could see Huntress standing there camping. She had no reason to leave the hook as long as the slugs stayed there. I hid, praying to the gods that the people on the ground would crawl away, but nope. So there was no way I could make a safe save, knowing that the Huntress could insta-down me with her Iri Head. I even considered letting that happen so we could all abandon, but my dumb arse stuck it out anyway. Only when Min died on hook did the two slugs finally start to move…towards the basement. Huntress eventually found me and gave me the signal to pick them up, so I did. And then they went into a locker and DC'd. I'm just like, "Okay then…" Should I have been punished for "ratting" in that situation?
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They don't log enough to know a killer is cheating when they're flying around the map and downing everyone within a few seconds of each other without the players taking video evidence and submitting it to them via YouTube. I sincerely doubt they have the tools to tell the difference between legitimate griefing and just having a bad match and I doubt they're willing to take the patch or 2's worth of dev time to get there.
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Both of the examples you give are shorter than playing out the rest of the match and re-queuing (1-2 minutes). I suspect if those were actually implemented on first disconnect you would then make the same argument arguing they should be made higher.
You ignore why there aren't immediate punishments for someone's first or second DC - DCs aren't always intentional. There being no way to tell the difference between someone's internet having a momentary issue and someone rage quitting means there needs to be some leniency or else you end up punishing too many people for something that is out of their control.
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There being no way to tell the difference between someone's internet having a momentary issue and someone rage quitting means there needs to be some leniency or else you end up punishing too many people for something that is out of their control.
My most memorable one was a couple years ago. Had a game with all 4 survivors up and we had just powered the gates. My Internet decided that was the moment to crap out and I lost connection to everything, including the match.
It was already the first 4-out of the evening after many games, and I was on discord with my duo partner after it came back to make sure the others got out.
But missing a solid win due to something outside of my control was frustrating enough that it sticks in my mind years later. If the game actually dished out a penalty to me for that, on the first "offense", I probably would've just uninstalled.
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The time-decayed penalty system was terrible, because a survivor could literally ragequit in 90% of their games, and the penalty system wouldn’t care.
The current penalty system cares about the percentage of ragequits, which makes way more sense.
-7 -
But it doesn't make sense to force people to keep playing. Period.
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@OnryosTapeRentals there's the call for intent policing I was talking about lol
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Don't @ me over comments I have nothing to do with, thanks.
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I'll take a bot over someone who opted to dc anyway. They are far more productive.
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lmao
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Prove me wrong?
Besides...how many times have you encountered a person and thought to yourself, "my God, this person's behavior is quite unpleasant. Is there a way I can continue to experience this feeling or can I tap out"?
Go ahead, I'll wait on both counts.
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In a similar scenario, I had three teammates all get slugged in shack in early game. Like your case, none moved, and they all stayed around the basement. I finished our one and only gen and walked over to the killler to make an appeal. It failed. Should I get a suicide penalty for that?
I've also had several recent killer matches where the survivor team failed to read my perks properly and all were downed a minute or so into the match. If people are already accruing hidden penalities for dying too fast because they screwed up, I don't want to cause that. And I definitely don't want it to get worse.
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depends on the situation, as killer i will gladly take on bots any time because they are easy wins lol.
as survivor, sometimes bots can be better due to them actually doing gens unlike a lot of people. However, if there is a player that can loop pretty well, they loop long enough for a gen to be done then i would rather they play the match to give the team time to do the rest of the gens. bots dont last long in chases because they are easy downs.
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Upset survivors because they made mistake and got punished for it, common for many survivors which dc from rage over their missplay.
Now imagine you went against huntress that when misses she dc, wouldnt it be fun to get 3 in one evening would be.
The most punishing thing for survivors you can do if you dont want to dc is just stand in the corner and be idle they will lose their minds especialy if the killer is someone who is wanted like bubba or ghostface,mayers, some will even die to endgame collapse from their disappoitment.
-5 -
I did say it would be over the course of a bunch of games, not individual and even with that this was just off the top of my head.
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If you are getting penalized by this theorized lenient system off the top of my head you would have to be doing it on purpose. These systems work in other games. If a survivor who is not new is going down in chase in less than 15 seconds 50% of the time it's no longer funny or whatever, it's active inting the game. Even vs S tiers every game it would be a chore to have chases this short all the time.
-5 -
You are naming one off scenarios this is not something that happens even every other game, no matter the mmr.
-4 -
Scenarios that happen to me every time I play the killer role.
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Does ”Make an appeal” mean you purposely ran towards the killer, and just stood there? Because that sounds like ragequitting to me.
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(Edit) Why did the forums double post me??????
-2 -
thats fine, instead of taking the dc penalty you can take the afk penalty instead. either way, rack up enough and you wont be able to join matches for a long while lol
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Do you even play this game?
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Both put really well. I won't lie, sometimes trials feel so hopeless that I barely put in the effort. But it's typically because of scenarios like these where it's a crapshoot. Sure, we might get out. But the odds are so stacked against us and easily nullified by the right perks/add-ons and/or camping/tunneling/slugging that sometimes I just don't wanna gamble it.
I keep saying it but it's true—the quality of the trials hasn't changed for me. We're just forced to stick it out regardless of how it's going.
As a counterpoint, it is true that winning is less valuable to Survivor. I don't need to escape to have a good time. But I do need to feel like escape is always possible and I currently don't. I also need to feel like I'm moving the trial forward or doing something fun in the process, which I also currently don't. So if Survivor isn't engaging, it's increasingly difficult for continually diminishing returns, and there's cries to punish us for even queuing up when we feel that way, why play at all? What motivation is there?
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The system lags and sends two requests I'm guessing. They really need to change the software—it's genuinely one of the worst forums I've ever used. But it might be a top pick for them for the word filter alone. In my opinion.
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My killler matches where people try to suicide out are often 50/50. Some are utterly hopeless snowballs, with players dead at 5 gens up. Those I get the defeated attitude. The match really is over. But some are ones where victory is still very much possible and someone is just mad because they were the first hooked or something. Almosy every time someone brings a luck offering the first person hooked will go second trying to die.
But my consistent issue is that survivors lack a chance at comeback. Thats why hopelessness is so ingrained. I just now finished a killler match where I only had maybe four hooks when they got the gens done. Everyone was still alive. I managed a 3k. There's nothing like that for survivor. If the game starts bad, it's almost certainly going to end bad. Not so for killer.
Post edited by cogsturning on3 -
I agree. Something has to give somewhere or else we're doing the same old things and expecting a different outcome.
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Seriously, what does “make an appeal” mean? Because it sure sounds like you ran up to the killer and just stood there.
If there is any other way to interpret this, please tell us what you meant.
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play a bardic tune and give the puppy dog eyes in the hope the killer has mercy…..so ye run up to the killer and stand there
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Why would I continue to engage with you at this point? You completely ignored all the points by multiple people being thrown at you in the previous thread about this and just reverted to your zero-nuance mantra of RAGEQUIT BAD MUST PUNISH. You talk about this game as though it's a conceptual theory you've never put into practice and you only say something when you think you have a gotcha.
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