http://dbd.game/killswitch
So... when is the anti-tunnel and anti-slug measures BHVR promised is coming in...?
Comments
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This thread is a definitive of us vs them + doomposting peak in current DBD era
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Yes yes, the internet is known for its honesty.
But are you seriously messaging people through different platform apps to ask them why they DCed?
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i dont need to ask, they say without me asking. in game, twitch, youtube, tiktok. the excuses these people come out with for DCing is crazy. one guy in pregame lobby just recently said "steve if you scream i will DC". sure enough he DCed. really? tunneling causes people to DC over that? or should we change steves scream so people like that dont have a reason to DC? People online truly dont care. But if you look on forums like these you get a different picture because people dont admit to these things on here. These forums are not a true reflection of what goes on in matches and why people do the things they do.
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The representative sample was fine. Again, people don't need to actually play on the PTB to make an opinion, and many of the console players mind up their minds when they watched their favorite streamer, or read about the changes on their favorite social media choice.In my last post I said you went from saying they had a representative sample to saying that it didn't matter.
In the first paragraph of the reply that's what you say again, you just use more words.
Also, your scenario doesn't even work. Even if there was a lot of console players that wanted to "wait and see"On consoles you leave out the second part of my reply:
is heavily weighted towards the players who play the game the most.The PTB is sampling only a small section of the player base. It's not even close to representative. That's not an opinion issue, you're just wrong.
And if the PTB changes went live, I literally would have boycotted playing killer. I wouldn’t have cared how the console players felt about the changes, and I would have refused to “try to adapt” to it. And many other people would have done the same.Any change will make some players stop playing the game. That's an inevitable part of change. Many people are boycotting survivor until the changes come through, neither group though is statistically significant.
If we were using the forums as our sample right now, then you would be in the substantial minority. People who disagree tend to be the loudest, that's why when they stopped the changes the forums erupted on the other side.
You're also ignoring the fact that BHVR has access to way more stats then we do, and actually knows the average kill rate for this PTB, and the average kill rates for the other PTBs.As I said earlier, if you're going to take this stance, then BHVR must always be correct because BHVR always has more data than us.
If you honestly think the kill rates were around the same, then you obviously weren’t watching various streamers try the PTB, to see how they handled the changes.I think you're confusing me with others, but a number of points on this:
1: The pallet change at the same time
2: Players intentionally trying to either trigger the system and play with it or avoiding it at all costs
3: That the anti-tunnel changes were meant to hit many of these players
4: In terms of data we don't have, we don't have the kill rates or know if they might be elevated over where BHVR wants them
5: That the PTB could have been adjusted before release
6: That killers could have been adjusted post release if kill rates drops
7: And of course, adapting to the change (a good example would be the time it took for old, old dead hard to go from meta, to unused, back to meta)
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Streamers, really? The most performative of all players? You don't think they're not DCing for reasons other then they're saying for an audience? And you don't think some of those DCs are inherently preformative?
I've played 206 killler matches in the last 30 days. Out of those, I can recall one start-of-game DC. I was Dredge and the match started with Nightfall. If I had to take a guess, that's likely an accessibility thing, as it's a common complaint with Nightfall. Even if it wasn't, that's the one time. Less than 1%. My other DCs and suicides (and yes, there are a ton of both) are all later game, when it's hopeless. They affect nothing about the outcome and are not for frivolous reasons.
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ok so its gone from people DC because of tunneling. when suggested that people admit they DC for silly reasons and not tunneling or not had a bad run of matches then they are saying this not to look weak and now they say it for the audience. realy? even when the people DCing say why they DC you still refuse to accept it lol. you will make any excuse to not see whats in front of you
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The bottom line is that there is a lot more than what's in front of you. The fact that you refuse to see the bigger picture is the problem.
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I don't care about DCs. Like, at all. This topic is so tedious to me. I don't DC, but I don't think it's really an issue. If a teammate bots out, cool, bots are useful. If multiple people bot out early, many killers are chill and let the one or two humans leave. If they don't, fine. It's such a non-issue to me, but a small group of people love to complain about it. If BHVR really wants to know the reasons, they should do an anonymous survey. That's the best way to get a genuine answer. No identity, no performances—just feedback. But, so far, they seem unbothered.
I don't care what streamers are doing. What's in front of me is a game I play everyday and see almost zero of these supposedly rampant early game dropouts. I can mostly only speak from the killer side, as my survivor matches are less likely to have DCs, but whatever I'm doing as killer seems to not cause these early DCs to occur. What you're seeing isn't what I'm seeing. There has to be some reason for that.
There was also a few day period several months ago where penalties weren't accruing for DCs and you could DC freely. I saw no uptick at all.
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i can see the bigger picture. and the bigger picture is removing tunneling will not stop people DCing because people will DC over far more things than just tunneling
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Why do you think console killers would be more likely to accept the phase 2 changes, than the Steam killers? Why do you think the console killers would handle the phase 2 changes, better then the Steam killers?
What exactly was your thought process? That if the PTB changes went live, a bunch of console survivor players would have given the changes a thumbs up, and that would have convinced BHVR to keep the changes?
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you might not care about DCs, i dont really care either because im still maintaining my 60% escape rate regardless. like tunneling is a non issue for me. maybe the difference in our types of matches is MMR? maybe its the times of the matches? im not sure, but its clear that not everyone is playing the same game.
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Yeah, I'd imagine the bots are actually very beneficial to ratting. They can take the aggro while you stand behind a rock. But you do seem to care because you always show up to these threads and even made one of your own. It's hard for me to take the arguments of anyone who refers to teammates as "tools" or admits to playing selfishly in good faith, so I assume there's some ulterior motive at play.
This ER of yours seems to go up every time you mention it. I'm looking forward to it being 80%. We're likely in the same or similar brackets for survivor, as hatch doesn't affect MMR, so it keeps you low. That and upper relies on solid teamwork, where everyone must take aggro and body block and run cohesive plays.
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these are discussion threads, its good to discuss issues on both sides and share our own individual experiences which is why i point out things that happen in my matches. bots can be beneficial in that they actually do gens which many survivors refuse to do, and like you said, they can take the heat so i can get hatch in a match that i would have lost and lost MMR. hatch maintains it so i can try again next time.
to be honest im looking forward to 80% escape rate too lol im good but im not that good….yet lol.
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No one is looking for a single "one size fits all" answer that once and for all ends people giving up. That's completely unrealistic.
People do disconnect for different reasons, and people haven't gotten more petty over time.
You were actually pretty close to recognizing this in your post earlier:
its impossible to know for certain what built up to the ragequit
Built up.
Frustrations build to a tipping point. So does exasperation.
You know what doesn't "build up"? Pettiness. You don't just accrue pettiness and BS reasons.
You build up frustration about the games health, about not having an actual chance, not being able to play the game, or just "it's been three days and two dozen matches, I just need to get my glyph FFS".
Those are things we might be able to do something about, even if partially or slightly. At least, we should be able to, except the loudest voices are screaming no, and most of those same people are also screaming "punish them" as well.
Or, I suppose "punish them harder" since "go next" has demonstrably not fixed the issue, and hasn't addressed literally any of the root causes either.
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i understand that some people have frustrations that build up over time. but where do we draw the line? "im frustrated that im being tunneled" so i will DC. the answer appears to be fix tunneling so they dont feel the need to DC. ok, if survivors get frustrated over the fact the go down by the time 1 gen is done, they want to last until 2 gens are done. so if they go down before 2 gens are done then just DC. answer to that would be give in to the complaint and make survivors last long enough in chases for 2 gens to be finished. This is my point, where do we draw the line and say no? What counts as petty reasons and whats built up frustrations? the frustrations that build up is based on the expectations they have and they get frustrated when expectations are not met. so like i said, if i expect to last long enough in a chase so 2 gens can be done but i cant do that so i DC out of frustration, is the answer to change it so i can last longer in a chase? or is the answer to stop me from DCing by harsher penalties?
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Why do you think console killers would be more likely to accept the phase 2 changes, than the Steam killers?Why do you ignore that consoles were only one part of the player base not sampled and that a PTB, especially in its first few days, is overwhelmingly sampling from a very small, not representative, group of the player base?
I specifically pointed out this error on the post you are replying to and you still just keep talking about it like I made a huge argument about console killers.
Why do you think the console killers would handle the phase 2 changes, better then the Steam killers?Because I've never agreed the Steam feedback was nearly as bad you make it out to be. I'm primarily pointing out that your definition of representative is factually wrong (and not just for consoles, far more for the self selective nature especially given the limited time frame).
That if the PTB changes went live, a bunch of console survivor players would have given the changes a thumbs up, and that would have convinced BHVR to keep the changes?You are the one who seems to keep insisting that the only options were 'don't do it' or 'do it exactly as it was on the PTB'.
Here are the broad possibilities from continuing to run the PTB
1: People play it more, realize the knee jerk reactions where wrong, and then it goes live with minimal changes
2: People play it more, identify what the clear pain points are, and those get adjusted post PTB.
3: People play it more, identify things that absolutely cannot work, and BHVR now has more feedback for the change they are going to make.
4: People play it more, more people agree it can't work, and the idea gets canned entirely instead of still being planned to come back
BHVR's stance is that this idea is coming back. Now unless they aren't just outright lying to us, not gathering as much info and feedback as possible, especially from the players who don't have time to test things the moment they come out, was a massive error on BHVR's part.
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Was the PTB turned off immediately after the revert announcement?
Because I thought the PTB was still available after that, and BHVR was still gathering data and info for the rest of the PTB?
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Coming off the mistakes on the sample being representative, its absurd to suggest that you can get meaningful data about an idea after telling people that it isn't going to happen.
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It's also absurd to suggest that the PTB could function, if it wasn't considered a representative sample.
If BHVR ever said the PTB wasn't a representative sample, then the players would remember that forever, and would constantly complain about PTB-to-live changes not being valid, because the PTB wasn't representative enough.
Your viewpoint isn't realistic. The PTB has always been considered representative enough to make game decisions, and it doesn't matter if you like it or not.
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If BHVR ever said the PTB wasn't a representative sample, then the players would remember that forever, and would constantly complain about PTB-to-live changes not being valid, because the PTB wasn't representative enough.8 -
Oh interesting, so the data is useless. It actually is just crying and screaming from a select few that make things happen.
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This is my point, where do we draw the line and say no?
Firstly: The answer is an iterative process. We don't disregard all complaints from one side just because some of them make unreasonable complaints. If that were the case, all killer complaints would be invalidated by the 'nerf this, survivors almost avoided a 4K' complaints. Each complaint should be taken on its own merit.
Secondly: We know for damn sure that we don't draw the line all the way on either extreme end. We don't acquiesce every demand and we don't reject everything either. That's pointlessly black-and-white thinking.
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Pretty much.
BHVR has never pretended the PTB was an excellent means of testing changes (so the assertions in this thread from some have been rather surprising). It has significant, and obvious, limitations and is meant to serve a few key purposes, but not an overall reflection of the change. Those problems are unavoidable, especially given how tight BHVR keeps their release schedule. With the anti-tunnel PTB I think they compounded the already existing problems with how they approached it.
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This probably means that all the whining about how 'gen regression and haste aren't gonna do anything' before the numbers were even out were also allowed to contribute.
This teaches us to be more extreme in our reactions, and that it's better to just not adapt.
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It seemed logical to assume data would play a part over or in addition to feelings. If people are weeping but the numbers tell a different story, I'd assume that would be taken into account. But this explains why there's so much crying about certain topics that seem inconsequential to me—those people want their personal hang ups to be noticed. It sucks this means they truly do rely heavily on content creators, being the loudest feedback-givers. I've always assumed it, but the confirmation is depressing.
Noted. Being loud is the way.
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That is basically saying…
The feedback is more important than the actual PTB data, which means that when players create feedback, even though they didn't actually play on the PTB, that is completely valid.
It also means that changes can be made based on PTB feedback, even though the entire PTB hasn't happened, because the goal isn't to collect as much PTB data as possible.
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I can see the frame of the big picture and the wall it hangs on, if you want to go that far.
That aside, I am fairly positive that the removal of tunneling + excessive slugging (cough cough .. Infectious Fright .. cough cough). I am more than very certain that there would be a significant drop-off in DC's from the survivor side.
For reference, I played several matches today where no one tunneled, and I did not see any outright DC's, other than abandons when all was lost. Even against a sweaty ghoul, no one dc'd, because he didn't tunnel people off of the hooks.
So prove me wrong, but tunneling is indeed the number one cause for DC's9 -
It just means that BHVR pulled the tunneling/slugging reduction because Killers cried about it, not because there was actual proof that the changes were too punishing.
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If this update is anything like the anti camp it's not even going to be that game changing.
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Just the hot take… idk…
As person who played PTB myself it’s pretty silly claiming this PTB is representative thing that provides valid feedback. It’s not and never would be, because even in actual game it’s impossible to build valid stats and it seems people playing different games here and there
So both opinion about is PTB showed that proposed changes just needs adjustments/or should be cancelled completely doesn’t have any actual ground beside people’s subjective opinion. You can’t talk about this objective from SUCH perspective. At least well, because on its own devs never showed stats and both you and them just appellate with attempts to build your own facts here, which isn’t contextual true
Both you and people above literally fighting for proving some an ephemeral position, purely because you're trying to convince the other side that your opinion is the majority/valid. Something you both will never actually prove. Because well it’s all attempts to wrap up subjective things to some stats or overall position.
Reviews changes and community feedback showed that the actual majority doesn’t want to see that thing going live in any state. Do people like it here or not, doesn’t matter. People should stop behave like this PTB was completely cancelled, because devs themselves claimed that they will provide next version of this absurdity in next PTB.
Maybe it’s time to stop trying to use this cheap “I’m right because others think the same” and use actual takes that can be at least somehow used around something you actually can call discussion and not a fight
It’s fine to accept that your position is subjective. It’s fine to use objective facts to reinforce a subjective position. And it's very strange when, day after day, people on this forum try to pretend that the way they play this game is the most common and popular. So their opinion deserves the most attention and others should be shut down. If person can’t talk about objective balancing and keep it in objective frame, then at least this person should stop to behave like their opinion is unanimously true
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Ok, let’s discuss what actually is happening here. There was a massive massive amount of negative feedback about the PTB, and BHVR reacted to that feedback.
And now we have a group of people that want all of that feedback to be ignored, and want PTB feedback to be declared as invalid for major balance decisions.
The actual compromise is for major changes to be tested in PTBs that are completely separate from patch releases. And BHVR would very clearly tell us these PTBs are only for feedback gathering, and there is zero guarantee that anything on these PTBs will ever reach live.
Having major changes on PTBs, that are connected to patch releases, is an issue for both sides of the game. Because one side will be in a panic to try to get the changes cancelled before they reach live, and that other side will be entitled and feel like the changes should happen just because they existed on a PTB.
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So is this what is being moved onto?
All of your arguments about data that BHVR had were wrong. I explained why logically it was impossible and I even showed you BHVR saying the same thing despite your claim that the player base would remember something like that forever.
Now you are discussing feedback. For two pages I've been highlighting how BHVR harmed themselves by not giving the PTB more time to gather feedback.
And now we have a group of people that want all of that feedback to be ignored, and want PTB feedback to be declared as invalid for major balance decisions.No one is saying that.
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I don’t support such people, at least because adjustments they are asking about will be brought to next PTB, if devs not gonna suddenly change their mind again. So, anti tunnel wasn’t actually cancelled. Just postponed again (maybe because it’s really problematic mechanic that at least half of community would never actually fully accept, hm).
But I understand them. They feel killer got their broken toy in face of Krasue with her braindead mechanic, yet their own broken toy wasn’t released. So (maybe) they try to cover it with an ask that “maybe it’s broken but it should be released so everyone can prove in it”. I don’t support this, but I understand. Devs made a mistake with Krasue, and it fueled tribalism. It’s more a matter of principle rather than some rational ask
Average person don’t care about objectivity and actual playtest/feedback. I got it when played PTB and showed that instead of actual test/experiments, the only thing people were doing is consciously exploiting same stuff over and over because they’ve seen it from some content creator, e.g haste builds on killers and plot twist bug. I played for a week and barely was getting matches where people were actually experimenting with builds/killer/mechanics.
Expecting this from community shouldn’t actually exist tbh. PTB was valid when it was a small game. Now it’s too many layers to it, so people don’t play PTB for test. They play for short joy of feel they can deal with changes in advance and maybe even touch some broken stuff and play with them, because going against actual set up of games is mostly considered funny (not in DBD only). It’s devs responsibility, but some uncertainty from their communication leave people deal with their frustration on it’s own. And because human mindset don’t really fit to the concept of self awareness, people start to blame others. To build self validation they also starting to create facts to present their ideas as factual/majority approved one. And basically you can’t deal with it from more rational perspective. More likely, you’ll start to do the same.
So again, I would rather highlight a need to not contributing to such convos yourself. Accept people want anti tunnel. If you are against it, bring cold facts to support your own sentiments. And don’t pretend they are approved by majority and it’s an only argument that gives validity. If more people would behave like this this forum would be less about rant and more about actual community contribution
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If BHVR announced the phase 2 revert, a full week after the PTB closed, would you have considered it to be a valid decision? Or would you have demanded the phase 2 changes go live, so that more people could test them?
That speech should be directed to both sides of the game.
People are complaining that killer nerfs got reverted due to killer complaints, but also think it's fine when survivor nerfs get reverted due to survivor complaints.
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If BHVR announced the phase 2 revert, a full week after the PTB closed, would you have considered it to be a valid decision? Or would you have demanded the phase 2 changes go live, so that more people could test them?So is this the new argument now?
In this case its actually a repeat. We did this two days ago. I gave you four possible ways running the PTB longer would have benefited BHVR from getting more info and the community as a whole.
You then got into the representative sample nonsense, which led to you arguing about the data BHVR has, which led to me quoting BHVR, and now you've circled back.
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Ok. How let's try a new scenario. Let's say the PTB was extended so that it lasted 2 weeks, so BHVR could gather extra data. If BHVR announced the phase 2 revert after 2 weeks of PTB data collection, would would have supported it as a valid decision?
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If BHVR announced the phase 2 revert after 2 weeks of PTB data collection, would would have supported it as a valid decision?It would have certainly been a more informed decision.
There's no such thing as a valid decision. There's no number, no yes/no, that you can look at to determine the direction of the game. All game design decisions are subjective actions that try to anticipate the shifting desires of a large player base. Given this difficulty designers should strive to gather as much meaningful feedback as possible, especially given their goal of coming back to this idea.
On a personal level I may or may not agree with the decision they make, just as every individual player will have differing levels of feelings toward every decision BHVR makes.
But for their stated purpose of gathering feedback, and with how they announced the not going forward, they missed the opportunity to get feedback from more players and see how opinion stood after more testing - and it would have cost them absolutely nothing.
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Waiting would have included a cost, because the amount of negative feedback was reaching critical mass. The early revert announcement absolutely was damage control.
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There was a massive massive amount of negative feedback about the PTB
And if you were to put that feedback into a pie chart, the vast, VAST majority of it was feedback without the PTB actually being in the picture. We already had people fuming at the very concept of anti-tunnel, then we had people fuming when they gave the vague outline of anti-tunnel, then we had people fuming when the numbers were released, and finally we had people fuming when the PTB actually went live.
The problem is that this concept is something that needs to happen. The survivor community is running on fumes, and the killers aren't liking it either. This problem has been brewing for 9 years, however, there's certain people that have made tunnelling into their religion.
Those people were never going to agree to anything. There is not a single system in the world that would alleviate the problem that would also appease these people.
It therefor makes zero sense to be so focused on their 'feedback'. You already said it yourself, even one hair out of place, anything you perceive as a slight against killers, and you are quitting on the spot. You are not interested in anything such a patch has to offer. Even if it were balanced in the killers' favour, you are not interested.
That kind of 'feedback' is completely unworkable. Imagine if survivors went around demanding a 70% escape rate and none of them would be willing to put in any effort or concede anything to make that happen, just threatening to quit whenever the needle could possibly maybe move.
It's volume over substance.
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I gotta admit, I don't think anyone would disagree with having more experimental and feedback gathering PTBs not tied to a release.
Could even have much more iterative and fast turn over changes since there isn't a "deadline" for such things, so BHVR could make quick rapid tweaks and changes in response to feedback to try and hit a sweet spot.
Basucally the playerbase become test pilots for the game. That sound like a very healthy and useful solution...
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in contrast to your experience i have had multiple matches in a row where atleast 1 person DC at the start of the match before they even knew who the killer was or went down first. However, assuming tunneling is the top reason people DC. my point still stands. tunneling can and has been countered, im living proof of this. i counter it myself as survivor and people have countered it against me when i tunnel as killer. instead of people changing playstyle to counter this awful DC inducing tactic we should change it so that tactic cant be used? if i cant counter SWF teams as killer and start DCing should we get rid of SWF?
With this in mind, DCing because of tunneling is just as petty of a reason to DC as having a map they dont like or any number of petty reasons people will DC over. This is why people should learn to counter tunneling and the DC pen should be harsher.
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Both you and people above literally fighting for proving some an ephemeral position, purely because you're trying to convince the other side that your opinion is the majority/valid
I don't think most of us are tryng to say our opinions are majority. I have no idea what the majority is. I've seen a lot of different views all over the internet. I'd venture to guess the majority have no opinion at all. They just log in every couple weeks, play a few rounds, and accept whatever changes come. The average player probably doesn't keep up with all this.
My problem is that all you need is a few popular streamers to whip their unthinking zombies into a frenzy and cause an outrage big enough to skew thing in what might not be a truly representational direction. People in this forum are constantly using content creators takes as their own stance instead of forming one for themselves. If you're not playing the ptb, you might be watching it, and you're almost certainly getting someone's commentary on top of the video. And those people have a monetary stake in the game and might just be biased in the direction of their paychecks, not in the best interest of the game and its playerbase.
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It's fine to agree with someone. But there are people here who can't seem to write out an opinion or make an argument of their own without posting a video. A video isn't a good way to say things. I'm not going to watch someone whose job it is to play—and doesn't represent regular players—long-winded commentary on a game. Just the patch notes and discussing scenarios and exploits with other regular people was enough to gather a base opinion for me. I watched a few video on mute. What I saw was mostly extreme exploits of the system. I imagine if they released the basekit BT nowadays you'd see an uproar about body blocking because of it.
You don't think many people hear the opinion of someone they like and listen to all the time and form it into their own opinon? Maybe without even realizing they're doing so?
; they hadn't even tested it themselves (just like they aren't really active players)
Is this fair? Many people, if not most, don't have access to the ptb at all. Lots have expressed their unhappiness about that.
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I despise concepts of “anti” from the start
What good is your 'feedback' going to be if this is your starting position?
Because this is part of the problem with a 'feedback' driven axing of this particular PTB. Lots of this feedback wasn't based on the PTB at all. The vast, vast majority of this 'feedback' came well before the PTB.
I get that some folks don't want this change. But others do, and it's ridiculous that the feedback is taken specifically from the people that don't want any change like it. Were the rat-players consulted about the Distortion nerf? Were the bodyblockers consulted about the OTR nerf?
Time and again, when survivors express discontent about a change, they're told to suck it up and adapt. But when the ball is in the killers' court, we've got people who are against everything from the get-go. As stated before, the only difference is in the noise you make, not the validity of the complaints.
Cry louder, lower your standards, and just browbeat the devs into compliance. And so the game's design and balance is not in the hands of those who know the game and know what they're doing, but in the hands of drama queens who know how to make a fuss.
It's no coincidence that the person in this thread whose stance essentially comes down to 'I refuse to adapt to any change that may negatively impact me' is also the person whose complaints have been taken, verbatim, and implemented into the game.
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Is this fair? Many people, if not most, don't have access to the ptb at all. Lots have expressed their unhappiness about that.
Talking about is this fair/not is shifting from what they are actually talking about. I don’t see that consoles players can’t play the PTB fair. But it’s not an excuse to behave like I mentioned above
and doesn't represent regular players—long-winded commentary on a game
Just because they may have different lobbies? Why they can’t represent regular players? Just because your lobbies are different, it doesn’t cancel the fact that many other regular players experience absolutely the same content creators are talking about. You know, this same content creators have to play with other 4 players in match usually, and 90% of them are common, regular players.
SpookyLoops and his video clearly represents chill and casual part of gamers. He is doing some hard challenges, but his lobbies lack of try harding. He is one of the most popular creator. He is highly appreciated in community. So… why he doesn’t represent regular playerbase?Otz no longer a sweaty player and do more some kind of research, support pretty casual view point on the game. And after so many years, image around him is controversial - people aren’t agreeing with all of his claims. Not anymore.
Hens is 50/50 player who belongs to some kind of competitive area, but he provides ton of footages to support some of his views, and validates his opinion with actual games.
OhTofu is may belonging to comp, but listening many podcasts, it’s pretty clear he is more into entertainment rather competitive now.
How many… actually popular content creators we have who belongs to actual comp/ try hard pub area? Like are you really sure people put some Knight Light as religion? Gamma, Tru3? Their channels, as well as opinion, are pretty niche and you aren’t going to see a lot of people putting them as representatives. Even if they bring their footages as an example, it doesn’t mean they validate every of their opinion. Moreover, such players are highly aware with difference between pub and comp, as well as their audience.
If people blindly claiming everything that X creator is telling is truth and it’s massively common here — it’s their personal issue. I, honestly, haven’t seen it on this forum or some medias. Again. It just looks like you are trying to defend your position just because people use some content creators you personally dislike as example. But… if these creators became popular, it means their content feels relatable to people or they appreciate this. So… do you like it or not, position of such people actually would likely to correlate with position of regular players and that’s why these players using their words in attempts to reinforce their sentiment. It’s not your position more likely. But maybe, you just aren’t actually belonging to “that” part of regular players, yet can’t even accept such concept.
People create their own idols, based on their own needs and interests. If these people didn't reflect the reality of the game, they wouldn't be trivial to watch. If these people wasn’t demonstrating something majority asking for, they would get much less attention and appreciation.So do you see the conflict? Again, you still attempting to appellate to some imaginable regular player base. And you highly defensive towards everything you find regular playbase sentiment and more likely highly neglectible/ aggressive to what doesn’t suit to your personal image of this regular playerbase. So… are u sure you aren’t trying to reinforce your opinion with “I am majority then I am right”? Maybe nor you, nor me should appealing to this principle at all then, hmm?
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What good is your 'feedback' going to be if this is your starting position?
It would never would be good for you and I know this.
As much as you claiming opinion of people who doesn’t like this concept should be ignored because other group asking for controversy, as much I see I have the right stop taking your opinion seriously at all. YK, it’s pure subjective thing, and I’m pretty sure you know why I stopped to take your opinion that seriously long time ago, sorry if this something you don’t want to hear or it’s too rude
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Just because they may have different lobbies?
No, because they have different agendas. You cannot tell me people making money off this are going to have an unbiased take and not try to use their audience to push it through. That's just people.
It just looks like you are trying to defend your position
Which position is that? That people should think for themselves?
people use some content creators you personally dislike as example
I cannot stress this enough: I do not watch content creators. I don't even know who these people you're listing are. I'm not young. When I was, we just played games. We didn't watch other people do so while they blathered on about it. The idea is nonsense to me and I've seen the concept harm gaming over the past decade.
So… do you like it or not, position of such people actually would likely to correlate with position of regular players and that’s why these players using their words in attempts to reinforce their sentiment. It’s not your position more likely
Is it not my position? Who knows? It's pretty unlikely I'll find out because I'm not going to watch a video. Type your thoughts.
So… are u sure you aren’t trying to reinforce your opinion with “I am majority then I am right”?
I play this game everyday. Sometimes I have more than 500 matches a month. I have a relaxed opinon, but I am in no way the majority. I have a fair amount of friends though, and they are less intense than me. And one by one, they're drifting off to other games. And more and more, I'm playing killer alone instead of survivor with friends because my causal friends are unhappy and are leaving the game.
4 -
It would never would be good for you and I know this.
Put your grudge against me aside.
Your feedback doesn't work for this patch because you don't want this patch to work. That is the problem.
Someone who does not want the patch to work isn't going to give feedback that will make it work.
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I cannot stress this enough: I do not watch content creators. I don't even know who these people you're listing are. I'm not young. When I was, we just played games. We didn't watch other people do so while they blathered on about it. The idea is nonsense to me and I've seen the concept harm gaming over the past decade.
So, it turns out to be an issue of misunderstanding cause of generation differences? Than it’s understandable, but makes it… even sad in some point, because it basically a prejudice thing. I hope we just go
I’ll bring some personal stuff here. I am game design student and highly interested in marketing. So if I’m getting to the game, I would likely to visit content both about production from devs and community itself (last thing especially). Recently I finished remake of Silent Hill 2, and after this went to visit some play through of other people and devs interviews. It was my hobby even before I got the chance to work and study for this industry, and I know a lot of people especially my age doing the same.
It doesn’t cancel the fact people like me have our own thoughts about the game. It doesn’t mean we blindly follow creators. I might change opinion, but it never would lead to extreme point just because some guy with bunch of m viewers told I’m wrong. If person doing this in game, they would likely more to be “brainwashed” in every term. So it’s not about people watching creators. It’s about people having Illiteracy online or in real life can be easily influenced as well. But to be honest... I hardly ever see such people. I would be eather optimistic here and believe that people rather misunderstand each other and it created an impression rather than actually… like this. I really don’t want to go deep, but just… living in CIS region last years showed me enough of people being actually brainwashed or lack of self concern. Content creators is the last issue of this community. Toxicity demand? Issue. Tribalism? Issue. Some popular guy having opinion and majority agree with them? Like… nuuh… you may not like it, but it’s not a problem.I play this game everyday. Sometimes I have more than 500 matches a month. I have a relaxed opinon, but I am in no way the majority. I have a fair amount of friends though, and they are less intense than me. And one by one, they're drifting off to other games.
And I also active player myself, but vast majority of my friends are having a tendency to be more competitive. Like, I was brought to the game, not me accidentally founding it, and I can say only one of my friend is actually more chill. And many of my friends also left the game, because current situation of game is not about players playing with each other, but rather meta handholding. So you see, we don’t have regular player base here active on forums. And we can’t be their representative. If looking on media, community was always into some kind of competition, challenges and try harding, yet being able to meme around it and bring it in semi casual way is also important. The things started to changed only in recent years, when meta literally became chokeholding such demand. And it’s messed up in such a big extent we can’t say a lot what actual majority asking for. And even if they are asking - are they right? Or is devs reaction to ask is right? For me currently I see a trend of extremal changes I don’t really like. We either push anti tunnel, either nerf OTR and bring hook stages. We either havily nerf stealth, then bring fog vials, and then nerf them even heavier. I can’t say trying to appeal to majority is a right way for this game anymore. DBD should gain specific identity before doing this. Or working purely on compromises terms.
Like, tunneling is frustrating, but people for 9 years keep fighting for to be able do it? So why just not accept it as a thing and actually work for direct QoL?Firstly, heavily nerf S tiers or bring build up power concept to every killer power, rather using multi tool approach. Secondly, make gameplay actually around it. Survivor hookes/slugged? Kindred and troubleshooter. Teammates see anticamp progression and antitunnel perks. DS or any other antitunnel perks should have a priority in shrine of secrets and always take at least one slot. Decent hook rgn and map changes to prevent bottlenecks or unfair spawn… Return ability to stealth in easier way if killer made a mistake and lost a target. Finally, made a tutorial and bring some literacy to this game. Many killers can create nasty hook pressure with their power, and it’s really hard for player to figure it out themselves. Tutorial is nothing in this game. Finally, encourage people who was tunneled, and their team escaped, because they actually contributed the most for the match… currently game simply denies how actually important is to be acknowledged that player can start to play aggressively at any moment
And finally, let people chill enough during events, where tunneling or genrush isn’t a potential thing, so people shouldn’t be worried their opponent can put them to stress point. So events will start to have actual meaning, idk…
Anti tunnel is simply bringing other system, that people will be rant about over and over. It’s IMO, I personally had enough of this. When game already have stuff that requires work and improvements, people asking for crutches. This is already some level of learned helplessness.
I just can’t believe you can make an anti tunnel good thing. As well as making tunnel absolutely free in this game. Compromises… It’s all I wish for this game
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Nuh, as much as u unable to keep your grudge aside of players who believe tunneling isn’t uncounterable thing
I made a post once why it didn’t work. And I still remember what you told me - feedback and balance discussion doesn’t matter for you. The only matters is emotional sentiment. So no, don’t pretend you are caring about working feedback. You always cared only about people who was sharing your statements.
You literally went to my post about balancing PTB only to cry about that balance actually doesn’t matter and you want to talk about emotional need of this changes, so my post have to be neglected because it doesn’t considering personal emotional value (maybe because I CAN’T discuss such stuff?????). Despite me trying to explain why some changes was bad there and why. So stop playing this silly games pls. I wouldn’t try to argue with you anymore just because you are so into your obsession about tunneling that even some tryhard sweaty killer would be jealous about how much you are thinking about this
You are keep fighting over nothing. Accept that I don’t share your desires and cope with it, rather than trying to shut down any feedback. I at least played this PTB and made a post when it was almost ended, rather than crying even without trying
It always be your problem I don’t like this concept. Not my or devs
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