Somethings should be addresed with the implementation of Anti tunnel and anti-slugging
Hi! Hope everyone is doing fine.
Probably this will be my most dislike post but i would like to propose some discussion around things that affects the balance of the game very heavily and why they should be reworked if we want a healthier game, consider the anti-tunnel changes will be implemented some day.
Toolboxes: this need a rework as soon as possible. It is a very strong item with no real downside besides having a finite amount of charges. With built to last and other gen perks its possible to complete more than one gen in less than 70 seconds.
My suggestion is that toolboxes shouldn't increase the repair speed but to protect from regression. So, if you used a toolboxes in a gen it would receive 50% regression for an amount of time or charges if the killer damages the gen. Toolboxes would still be an useful item but not as op as they are.
Syringes: althought medkits are fine now, syringes are still very strong. They consume the medkit but dont require charges, heal as fast as a normal medkit speed and can be combined with perks such as botany. My suggestion is that they require at least 24 charges to work and have a fixed 33% healing speed. It still would be a very useful item without giving ultra fast heals or an absurd amount of medkit efficiency.
Shoulder the Burden: This perks really missed its point entirely. It looks like it was designed as perk to save teammates from hard tunneling but its most used by Swfs trying too hard to win. It works better against non-tunneling player which is a non sense. Also, because of how strong Vigil is right now this perk has no real downside.
It should only work if the killer hooked the same person twice in a row, with no downsides beside the scream and the hook status change. It would really works against tunneling killlers and wouldn't harm players which are spreading hooks.
Vigil: it counters too much status effrctes without having a downside. Change it to be a exhaustion reduction perk, to be a negative status protection (without protecting from exhaustion) or change its activation condition.
Reasssurance: Thats a hard one. It can be used very healthy to counter proxy camping but it can also be used give extra time for saves when the killer is not really camping and survivor want to greed on gens. My suggestion would be to increase it activation range and instead of the current 30s of stopped hook timer a 50s of 50% slower hook timer. This would still harm proxy camping without giving free time to Swfs who abuse this perk.
Ghoul: shouldn't give deepwound unless he is bitting an injured person. Deepwound counter so much stuff and give slowdown to and already strong killer.
I believe there is many more stuff to discuss but thats what i wanted to say right now. Hope we can have a healthy discussion on this topic.
See you guys!!
Comments
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Toolboxes - I'm surprised they haven't been reworked. After Medkits got reworked so they were all similar in design/power, I thought the same would happen with toolboxes.
With built to last and other gen perks its possible to complete more than one gen in less than 70 seconds.That's kind of the point though? That a survivor can go for a gen rush build at the risk of getting tunneled or slugged or not good in chase or not able to heal, etc.
Shoulder the Burden:
It should only work if the killer hooked the same person twice in a row, with no downsides beside the scream and the hook status change. It would really works against tunneling killlers and wouldn't harm players which are spreading hooks.I'm really against this style of perk design where we try to hard counter play styles via perk selection. It just leads to winning or losing the game in the lobby screen.
It's like Potential Energy and old three genning. Killer 3 genning and have this perk? You win. Not 3 genning? Dead perk. It is too much all or nothing on a single perk.
Shoulder the Burden is good without being overwhelming against a hard tunneler because of the exposed risk, while at the same time still potentially having some use against a non-tunneler. Perks having general uses like that is better than all or nothing designs.
Vigil: It's broken, I don't know why they've made it so strong.
Reassurance:
It can be used very healthy to counter proxy camping but it can also be used give extra time for saves when the killer is not really camping and survivor want to greed on gens.…
This would still harm proxy camping without giving free time to Swfs who abuse this perk.What is healthy? What is abuse? Kind of like Shoulder the Burden I think having perks that only work in one specific scenario are bad designs. If the killer is not around and survivors are just leaving the survivor on hook with Reassurance, that doesn't seem like a great play. Not only does a survivor have to run over, pop it, and run back to their gen, they could have unhooked the survivor and both been on gens (not to mention the risk of potentially giving the killer a snowball path to victory).
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No thoughts on Ghoul. On syringes I'd totally rework addons if I could, but that's outside the realm of the game's direction.
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I disagree. I think perk with very strong effects that serve for more than one purpose can definitely harm the game's overall health. Shoulder the Burden and Reassurance are far too strong if we admit they can be used against a killer who is not tunnelling or camping, respectively.
For Reassurance, its always a risk to save your teammate since the killer can go after them and just sacrifice/kill/put back on hook the recently hooked person. So there are some scenarios where leaving the person on the hook, finishing the gen and them going for the save give survivors a great advantage, specially if they break a trigen with this. What Reassurance does is turn this from a very risky play into a almost no risk play, since you would be in a hurry before your teammate goes into next stage but if you have 30 free extra seconds you don't need to care too much, even if the killer comes to defend the hook.
For Shoulder the Burden, combining it with Vigil make it so has no real downside since the exposed effect will be very short. And can really turn the tide of a match because it can remove one person from the death hook condition. So, being able to use it against non-tunneling killers is not a good design choice. It would be if a perk like Forced Penance work on "normal" chases (without bodyblocking). The perk would be far too strong and need some changes.
When i say healthy i mean its don't have a very strong effect that can be abusable by certain killers or coordinated teams.
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Shoulder the Burden and Reassurance are far too strong if we admit they can be used against a killer who is not tunnelling or camping, respectively.
Are they, though?
Reassurance becomes very situational when there's no camping, and even in the situation that it would work, it merely softens a bad situation, it doesn't fix it. It's still a situation that survivors are way better off avoiding in its entirety.
Shoulder the Burden barely has an upside if the killer isn't tunnelling, with the only one that comes to mind being Deliverance.
A lot of these kinds of discussions get hung up on the fact that a perk -can- be used, without properly exploring what the impact is in the situations where it does get used. Similar to how people were saying that survivors were going to intentionally die to trigger the repair speed boost in the anti-tunnel changes, despite the fact that a 30% repair speed buff is never going to compensate for a survivor willingly kicking themselves out of the game.
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Is Shoulder the Burden an anti-tunnel perk, and Reassurance an anti-camping perk? Or do the perks just exist and people use them how they wish? Shoulder is such a dangerous perk to use that I don't see why you'd want it nerfed. I've instadowned and gotten an immediate double hook on so many people because of it. Reassurance is strategic sure, but if you're not camping, who cares? Their teammate is not useful on the hook. Go gen patrolling. Get to the active players.
Also not sure why toolboxes need a downside. Items generally don't have one, fog vials being the biggest exception. Most killer add-ons don't have downsides and some are super strong.
And I agree with the above about gen builds. I bring a toolbox with BtL because I'm not a great looper. Gens are what I'm good for. Would you rather me bring that or a bunch of second chance and exhaustion perks? I was using fog vials for their one beautiful week of usefulness with a completely different build and that got shut down real fast. If we keep dismantling perks and items, we will have even less variety and a more and more narrowed meta.
Also, if any sort of meaningful anti-tunnel ever does come, it will likely bring with it a lot of perk changes. As it is, OTR and Teancity were nerfed over changes we never even got, so I don't think they'll hesitate to nuke survivor perks. But let me see this anti-tunnel first.
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@Firellius and @cogsturning already covered a lot of points I was going to say, but to focus on a few things.
I think perk with very strong effects that serve for more than one purpose can definitely harm the game's overall health.Sure, it CAN. A perk with a single effect that is too strong CAN harm the game's health. The issue is something potentially being too strong which could apply to any type of perk design.
Shoulder the Burden and Reassurance are far too strong if we admit they can be used against a killer who is not tunnelling or camping, respectively.Why?
It seems like you are starting at the premise that the perk should do one specific thing and if it can do more than that its an issue.
The version you laid out would be incredibly powerful, basically game winning, but only usable in one specific case. I think that is bad as it makes the games decided in the lobby screen and not the actual gameplay.
It's possible the current version is too strong, I don't think it is, but even if it was that would mean it deserves a nerf, its a completely different discussion than the idea of perks conceptually being able to be usable in a single instance.
It would be if a perk like Forced Penance work on "normal" chases (without bodyblocking). The perk would be far too strong and need some changes.But there are perks that work just in chase.
DbD perks tend to either be weak/limited, but really easy to get value from, or strong, but have a condition to trigger or downsides that come with it. StB, and Forced Penance, fall into the latter.
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