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Why are these bad faith arguments about tunneling so common?

Destaice
Destaice Member Posts: 114

When I say "bad faith arguments" I mean the people who like making them know these arguments don't make sense to the most basic levels of scrutiny but yet seem to dominate discussions about DBD across social media. Particularly whenever topics of "tunneling" became the center point for everyone to give their opinions.

Number 1: Any of the "get good" varieties. I feel like it's self explanatory to understand why it's a flawed argument to just argue people are bad. Even if somebody is legitimately just bad at the game, they still deserve to have a fun time playing it. And for obvious reasons if bad players are getting tunneled out that offers little to no opportunities for that player to grow and actually do the "getting good" you think they should. You really shouldn't be holding the average person playing survivor to the standards of your favorite youtuber who takes killers on 5 gen chases. That's not a reasonable expectation. If that average player could 5 gen loop an M1 killer then M1 killers would be unplayable. Another common form of this argument is "just survive in chase longer." You are not looping an AI with predictable behavior (sorry knight we're not talking about you). You are going against a thinking person who is trying to use their killer power to outplay you, and they will. Again, reasonable expectations. You will get chased by a killer immediately after being unhooked who destroys you with their power. If you think killers are not supposed to win chases with their power then you might as well be arguing killers shouldn't have them. I'm not arguing killers should be obligated to let survivors reset. All I am arguing is that starting a chase healthy matters a lot for how long you can expect a survivor to hold a chase. This is why going after the injured survivor makes shorter chases. If it was a longer chase they wouldn't bother.

Number 2: The "I thought survivors wanted to be chases?" This one genuinely causes some anger because of how snobbish the people who make it tend to be. "I thought I was making the game more fun for you." Survivors don't wanna go down early in chase. They aren't doing it on purpose, even when sometimes it seems like it. And starting the chase injured and in a bad position away from good resources pretty much assures you're not gonna have a good chase. I would like to go into a chase knowing I have the opportunity to buy my teammates more than 15 seconds and if I don't accomplish that it's either because I mad a terrible play or the killer showed me the meaning of skill issue. But if it's tunneling… well I had 8 seconds to make it out of deadzone city before the killer took me out and if I couldn't then there's not much I could do. It's so blatantly not what people mean when they saw they wanna get chased by the killer. Yet here we are arguing against it anyways.

Number 3: "It's removing strategy." Behavior cannot remove tunneling from the game without a complete overall of the DBD gameplay loop. Which maybe we'll see if there's ever a DBD 2. What they are trying to accomplish is discouraging tunneling so it's less prevalent in the game. I know what I'm saying here is subjective but tunneling is less fun for both sides. If the devs are successful (give them a chance instead of doom posting 24/7) they could accomplish changes where as a killer you do not feel you need to tunnel in so many of your matches and have a better time playing for it. If anything it adds strategy because tunneling being the dominate playstyle actively makes other strategies less viable. You want players to play with the entire game's toolkit, not just the most meta killers with the most meta builds with the most meta strategy.

Number 4: "It's just part the game." I also wanna give honorable mentions to "survivors exaggerate when they say getting tunneled means they didn't play the game." As both arguments are kind of countered by the same thing. A lot of PVP games have some kind of time out system for when players are eliminated. For DBD that's hooks. In a game like Overwatch it's your respawn timer. It's a necessary part of balance. But DBD is the only game when I can sincerely argue I've spent more time in timeout than I have actually playing the game. If a game like Overwatch or League of Legends or something with respawns if you've spent more time in timeout than playing then you're either doing something wrong or playing against hackers. Or maybe that 1 game of League where people were spawning in the wrong fountain and instantly dying. But in DBD thanks to tunneling you can find yourself spending 2 minutes on hooks and less than 2 minutes actually playing the match. So people really aren't lying when they call getting tunneled "not playing the game." Because sometimes you just genuinely aren't. And it speaks to a fundamental problem with tunneling that these scenarios even occur.

Now I know I've mostly spoken about arguments killers make. I'm not trying to be biased here. I know survivor mains make their bad arguments too. Heck it wasn't that long ago I had 2 survivors making homophobic remarks at me in EGC because I wouldn't let freshly unhooked survivors cleanse my hex. Using "tunneling" as a justification. But DBD social media that gets more than 2 likes 1 comment tends to mostly be on the side of killers. And it's these arguments that make up most of the discussion. And I really do not understand the desire to make these arguments. They don't contribute to the game in any meaningful or helpful way. They don't help with toxicity. They don't help new players learn. And yet here's the army of 100 TTV killer streamers here to rehash these arguments like broken records. I also don't even get the appeal of watching streamers who act like this.
Genuinely, if you make these kinds of arguments on reddit or twitter or in youtube comments. What motivates you to argue like this?

Comments

  • sinisterstubbs77
    sinisterstubbs77 Member Posts: 37

    I think people will say "tunneling", or "camping", etc. just because they're losing. Sometimes killers do go after the one just off the hook. To me, it's the same as gen-rushing and finishing a gen in under 15 seconds. (yes, that happens today) What else can you do, the survivors are on the gas pedal, but the Killer has to wait around and play slow with no strategy? These issues will always be a source of complaint and discussion, as it's human behavior based on the situation in the game.

  • Colt45m
    Colt45m Member Posts: 246
    edited October 31

    Its a real problem. There is literally nothing you can do if you are proxycamped on hook and tunneled out. No counterplay.

  • Zuiphrode
    Zuiphrode Member Posts: 533

    Don't forget #4, the supposed killer main who shows up and claims that he never hooks anyone twice in a row, never tunnels or slugs, and always gets 4k.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,240

    True sometimes there isnt much you can do as killer in certain situations that would help you to get some kill and not loose, your perks wont save you and your killer power can save you (not every killer runs all meta build, not every killers power is strong as blights or ghouls so you can have 4 hooks on 3-4 gens where wraith can easily have these 4 hooks on 1-2 gens left and he didnt even have to played bad in chase there is just so much safety and survivors have strong perks and play well he just cant keep up with presure with his normal tools) so thats when some strategy is needed like fuccusing on certain survivor or two, tunneling someone to get some control or kill before gates and then try to get another hook and defend that kill when gates are opened, slug someone I cant hook or its just waste of time to create preasure and push other survivors from gens both chasing them or just forcing them to go pick the sluged guy up or hooking someone next to highly progressed gen its logical killer will be there for a while kicking gen and checking the area, when killer comes closer to hook after some time and that survivor wasnt unhooked and its just normal to wait 15 seconds to foce trade or secure second stage when his teammates had 50 seconds to save him. There isnt many normal things killer can do to get preasure back on survivor team and thats why these strategies exist because every killer can do them and they just work. All depends on situation thats currently in the trial and thats all but you cant tell someone how he should play in his game (you can but its just your opinion not rule).