New anti-tunneling changes... what's the point? Where's the penalty?

We can punish killers for killing the same time we punish survivors for getting gens done.

The punishments were the main issue with the last attempt. It's a shame the devs didn't keep any useful buffs for spreading hooks so it's still going to be better to force early kills when possible.

at the bare minimum it should be tier 2 bloodlust and make it onoy deactivates on mobility power and not if trapper uses a trap for example.

Hard Tunneling is the equivalent to that one survivor who did nothing and got the hatch at the end, no one likes this kind of play style, and it feels disheartening. Or those who did nothing practically holding a game hostage at times(rare as hell)

Hence afk crows were touched up, but got overturned. So stealth players got hit pretty hard and some of those team mates doing things got hit. Crows got nerfed becauseof it.

. The penalties were much like the crows. To oppressive for they touched not just hard tunneling but certain circumstances that are not just the killer tunneling but horrible situational awareness of some survivors caused some killers to be hit bu them.

This ptb and patch if it goes through, is just the nerfed crows of tunneling.

Yep, just like current off-hook body blocking.

now we actually need to see a carrot for not tunneling.

Killer is more punished by spreadinh hooks which is his objective (hooking more survivors without perks that get benefits from this action like pain res,grim embrace, noway out etc. is worse for killer because survivors have more time on gens and are less preasured because the whole preasure is more spread across the whole team instead few survviors which maybe looks like less preasure but they die faster which than gets the ones that arent preasured by killer directly, other thing is hooking more survivors you are giving them perks like dead hard or ds than can be used against killer and are strong especialy dead hard which in situations where killer is using his power that cant be used to bait it or survivor is in pallet,near window which are situations where you have 50/50 and dead hard breaks this 50/50 and makes it 33/33/33 chance you either hit him, get pallet stuned or he uses dead hard and gets sprintburst from hit which is bad to have this on more experienced loopers because they know when to use dead hard to make it safe.

Doing all gens survivors will have antitunnel basekit like now 10% haste for 10 seconds with borrowed time instead new 30 seconds (which is almost current OTR and it would be busted not all killers get hook that is furthest from all gates and can catch up or double hit as some killers like blight,ghoul and others which wouldnt be fair).

So we can say survivors get punished for doing gens (weaker antitunnel) but killers get punished more especialy the weaker ones.

No killer will loose that bloodlust with doing any breaking actions (cleaning up pallets or making loops weaker by breaking walls), getting into chase with survivor (which is wierd but ok) and using his power so Pig cant crouch and have just hold W or she will loose that bloodlust, ghostface can use his power for stealth to get on other survivor which sucks because he cant be played as m1 (if you play him most time as normal m1 killer insted of prioritising stalking and 99 survivors or hit and run playstyle then stalking injured to 99 if you can so they are either way one shot she is super badif you dont paly him like this and just more as normal m1), for trapper it will be not as important because he will just do more cleaning up by breaking pallets or setting traps so few seconds for him most of times he isnt chase killer but set up killer so he wont benefit from that naturaly same goes for hag for her is way better to trap the hook instead run across the map as wraith. Mobility killers have better mobility than bloodlust so they wont benefit from that either, the ones that will get most of that bloodlust speed are killers like huntress (if she doesnt go for snipes), slinger,chucky,knight (if he just holds w and wont go for long path guard) these are the killers that will get most of this becasue they dont need to use their power if they dont see or chase survivor and their power has no stealth activation like pig,ghostface, have no mobility in it or set up for some traps). i think even uknown will loose it if he spawns his tp so yeah only few killers will get most of this weak effect that can with more blood points just give you same as tunneling one survivor out fast and help you to gain same presure as tunneling does (many survivors and swf mainly try to help each other so by tunneling you get some hits or even slugs that are way more beneficial for the killer than having some bloodlust for 15 seconds and more blood points from unique hooks thats just sad fact).

No stick either. Half wins are good too. Last PTB punished the killer even when the survivor repaired in their face knowing the killer couldn't risk hooking them. Paired with being able to endlessly pick themselves up made it a lose lose.

The uniqe buffs shold be better not for making killer stronger but for making the reward more woth it so there is less tunneling because even after this survivor buff patch will drop hardcore tunneling will be still the best and most effective way to play while spreading the hooks will be bad even more as it is now.

Sorry but billy isnt busted, he is strong killer indeed but he takes some skill withhis power and has solid counterplay (its easier to juke him or doge him than blights,ghouls or nurse power and you would be surprised how skilled loopers can crouch tech him around corners or small elevations when running downwards or make him to break wall or pallet because it priorotizes the breaking action with saw intead hit because the pallet or breakable wall has bigger hitbox than survivor crouching next to it). He isnt that op because he is quite map dependent more than other stronger killers mainly for his mobility and instadown is strong thing but he isnt alone who can do it and hiting his saw isnt that easy as it looks so if there is some image of what strongest killer should be billy is probably closest to it killer that is strong but has hight skill ceiling and is hard to play with his power but but still isnt hardest to pick up because he is the m1 (nurse is harder to pick up because she cant loop normaly and is just all about her power).

In reality the killers cant be balanced the same and never will (look at meta now killers with chase powers plus some good mobility will be always better in this fast phase state than some trap killers who must set up or stealth killers) but lowering that huge power gab between then is important mainly for balance uptades like the patch 9.3.0 where some killers can just be almost uneffected by the survivors buffs while others will struggle way more than now same as with pallet density uptade that just did almost nothing to stronger killers but the m1 got cut deep by it (because 6 more filler pallets between stronger loops do nothing huge to blight but for m1 killer who has no strong antiloop or catch up dash power these few pallets become super strong against him).

You get a whopping 750 BP as a hook spread bonus, and depending on the Killer, you get a 15-second slight acceleration that vanishes the instant you press the ability button!? They say you can move 6 meters farther than usual in 15 seconds. Don't you think that's a ridiculous bonus? Survivors get the base kit babysitter or the upgraded OtR, and unlike the last PTB, the hitbox for protecting allies is back. With all that going on, it's more beneficial for the Killer overall to just try to land two hits and tunnel.

The additional gen regression for non tunneled hook WAS exactly said scenario that tunneling would not benifit.

That is the carrot you want, but what was needed was for it to effect lower tier killers more.

It would work with a few tweaks!

And also the stick DOES not work ether, because that promotes more toxic views.

This next paragraph is an example and not my views on gen speed.

If we were to make it if you completed a gen before 70 seconds every gen was blocked because the amount of people saying gens go to fast, survivors would feel rightfully targeted, especially if the rest of the team was managing not to prock it and one random person did.

This is a shotgun approach, which is often used as a stick

Thats a bad stick isnt it?

We Need a balance that doesn't affect those not doing the thing the punishment are targeted for at all.

If you dont agree fair, but I hard disagree that a carrot doesn't help..

I kinda miss blendettea

Yea but even w/o moonlight blendette on some maps was invisible there was a reason why everyone ran p3

as a survivor it was fun as kikiller it

What is genrushig though? Is it toxic to just do gens? Does everyone in your lobbies have commodious toolboxes and gen perks or are you just giving them 90 free second to do the gens? Like what do you want the survivors to do? Politely wait for your chase to finish before working on a gen?

No, in fact I said that is obviously the survivor's primary goal is to do the gens. What I said was it's hard when there is a coordinated meta perk team bombing gens at the start. Not that they shouldn't ever do this, but what's a killer to do in that case? They in turn have to speed up, change tactics like tunneling for example, because a killer's primary goal is to get the survivors out while protecting the gens. Survivors made up the term tunneling like many have said simply because they failed, made mistakes the killer capitalized on and just didn't like it and labeled it a bad thing.

30 second gen build.

It only takes 2 people with it to be absolute misery