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Are non-mobility killers outdated?
What do you think?
Comments
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Not every killer necessarily needs mobility to be good, It depends on their power design.
For example, we have killers like the Artist and Pyramid Head who have no mobility and are considered strong, and we also have killers like Sadako and Dredge who have a consistent mobility but are weak in a way.
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But killers that have a power that close the gap between the killer and the survivor, aren't they always going to be the better killer than the ones who don't?
For example. Blight and Kaneki can shorten the distance between him and the survivor in chase but they can also traverse the map.
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I’m phead main, I also played ghostie for really long time and now learning Huntress. So yes, most of my matches was on killers without mobility.
I would like to say on current state they are still playable, but lack of mobility can hurt a lot. If you can’t get info, create zones and constantly patrolling, you are kinda doomed and that's definitely not your choice.
If good survivors decided to gen rush, nothing you can really do. If you lose the tempo of quick downs you can easily lose the pressure. If survivors spread up from the start and considerably prerunning, I don’t find realistic gameplay without tunnelling
However I wish to see more killers without mobility or free map pressure, but strong and complex power. And I’m kinda disappointed that your statement is kinda true for devs vision. I mean, the last killer without any form of map traversal is Chucky…Killers without mobility is pretty unpopular, if not counting Wesker and Myers
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Not necessarily. Singularity for example isn't exactly a mobility killer, more like a short ranged anti loop killer, unless you somehow manage to get tagged by him from a camera, then he can travel the whole map. Twins as well are definitely not mobility killers. Victor is a seperate entity that can't perform basic killer actions, leaving Charlotte ages away from where you unbinded Victor. Both these killers are high A tiers, and they lack mobility in their kits.
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I would never say they don't have mobility just because it's chase oriented… I mean, Victor is literally has fast speed, and his separation from Charlotte allow to presence on different places for this killer. Sing as soon as the placement of cameras is right (considering possibly emp) and survs don’t have enough resources literally can easily terrorise whole map without any struggles.
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Id say mobility killers only benefit from getting from one chase to the next quicker, or defending generator easier. Everyone else has their quirks that get the job done. If everyone had mobility like blight n kaneki than the whole game would be S tier killers making survivor 10x more miserable lol
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they were never in-date in the first place. the crazy lenght and effort u have to do well on those killers vs higher tier survs compared to S tier killers with hyper mobility is insane day and night difference
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They don't need mobility to be good, they just haven't been designing those non mobility killers in a way needed to compensate for that mobility.
Mobility is map pressure and slow down. You basically just need your non mobility killer to have something similar to Pig traps. IE a secondary objective. The only reason this doesn't work for Pig is because she's just bad. Her traps were the right idea, just not tuned high enough.
So let's say you were trying to compensate for that mobility on someone like Trickster. What do you do? Reduce his TR, this shortens chase time and increases pressure. Make it so the daggers he lands stay in until they're slowly pulled out. This again either shortens chases or slows down gens as now they waste time pulling knives out. He lacks time efficiency from pre running. This is because maps in general give too much info and you can see the killer coming too early, this incentivizes pre running. Give more LoS blockers on maps.
The general point here is you can make up for mobility if the killer is designed in a way that shortens chase times and gives secondary objectives to waste survivors time (this is the big one). This stuff can be accomplished in multiples ways. This stuff generally hasn't succeeded so far because they're undertuned.
It's all just TIME. Mobility gives TIME. Shortening chases or making survivors do secondary objectives gives TIME. Currently mobility killers are just getting way more TIME from their mobility than the games secondary objective killers get from theirs.
Post edited by Blueberry on3 -
No, and neither are those with no dash or no projectile.
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It is kinda hard to difference between "mobility Killers and none"
Nurse in blight are mobility Killers ofc but are Legion with his francy and dogmaster aswell?
There are so maby different kinds of map traversel that it is hard to draw a line here in my opinion.
Was speed clown on yellow bottles a mobility Killer? And if you say yes does this count for all speed buffs? So… Trapper is a mobilty Killer after placing a trap?
Same thing with teleports. Dredge is a mobility Killer but is Freddy?
I don´t think that some Killers are really outdated. But I think through power creep some are more lethal than others.
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No. We just need BHVR game designers to understand that killers with a power that both offers strong antiloop and map mobility also need to be balanced as such.
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I prefer to think of it as mobility killers being so flagrantly overpowered they’ve warped the game entirely around them
Post edited by DragonMasterDarren on1 -
In blights or ghoul case its not only mobility that helps them travel across the map but their power covers more important things like they have with that mobility power to catch up to survivor directly which killers with faster mobility to travel across the map like dreadge or sadako lack or its hard rngfor them to have it. They have antillop on power and good ones not the weak one as dreadge has like blight has 5 dashes that are super fast and can break stuff while having small cooldown compare to other dash killers or siprit who is even 115 speed killer, ghoul has catch up with fast vault as antiloop and he can injure you fast almost as legion but he has more range plus all the things to it.
For me its not mobility but more what all killers power covers and how strong it is, some killers have strong antiloop but that isnt all look at pyramidhead he can hit you almost on every loop through wall but still is way weaker than dracula who has simular but weaker range attack but has chase wolf form with two dashes and bat form for mobility with teleport so he has multiple powers and covers more things than phead who has better antiloop on paper but in reality is way weaker.
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No. The current B-D tier killers with no mobility are like that because they just suck. Not just because of a lack of mobility. Their time to down is so long so even if you gave them fast map traversal, most of them would just run around doing nothing. You need a mobility that is usable in chase and also a power that beats prerun tactic. I.e. blight, hillbilly, ghoul, nurse, spirit. Compare these killers : sadako vs freddy
Sadako: tps and then walks. Horrible killer. freddy: can use his
yto zone, interrupt heals, trigger dead mans switch without actually finishing the tp, has follow up tools to make up distance after tping, but powers are limited by waking up. Good killer. So it’s not just map traversal.Or check clown. Very simple kit but still is better than most of the killers imo. Because he makes almost every pallet unsafe and counters prerunning very well.
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Killers without mobility are playable, but it's for sure a limitation for them.
Lack of mobility is going to create games where you simply can't win. Kinda all survivors need to do is prerun and end their chases in corner…
I would say bigger issue is massive power creep with some recent killers. It's not like killers without mobility got worse, but they just look trash compare to recent killers.1 -
I wouldn't say so, no.
Mostly I just want to contest that the killers who have mobility are all stronger than the killers who don't. Not only are there weak killers with mobility - others already brought up Sadako and Dredge here - but there are quite a few strong killers who don't have mobility.
Artist, Pyramid Head, Plague, Huntress, and Nemesis are all upper-end killers, all comfortably in the A tier, and none of them have any mobility. I'd also personally count Pinhead here, but strictly technically he has mobility, sort of, so maybe he doesn't count.
It reminds me of the people who say "M1 killer" when they just mean "weak killer", the terms being used don't actually define anything. What separates the good killers from the weak killers in this game is purely and simply how capable they are of running their gameplan, there's very little structural design issues in this game- not that they can't exist, a few killers do have some, but it's not an overall problem with killer design.
Obviously, good mobility is one of the strongest things a killer can have in their kit, but it isn't a practical requirement at all. Range is a good substitute, slowdown is a good substitute (think Pig, who after all her buffs is a comfortably mid-tier killer who is actually capable of running her own gameplan), antiloop on its own can be strong enough to counteract a lack of mobility.
Weaker killers just don't have strong tools period, not that they don't have this one particular strong tool.
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because we are all like dogs with zoomies
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Non-mobility killers are given the Mrs. Dash seasoning. It's not fun or creative in the slightest to try to make old outdated killers an ability to dash attack. For Pig, a majority of us loyal Pig players prefer a adjustment to the RBTs (As traps are a central core of the SAW franchise and makes little sense to put focus on Ambush dash). Can we update old killers without tampering their core characteristics or identity?
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Even some killers with mobility are outdated or underpowers as hell demogorgan (outdated and weak), sadako (weak, all her power is just her tv and if survivors arent new she is just m1 with poor stealth).
Many bettter bomility killers like springtrap can be preruned, dreadge same if he doesnt tp to locker and survivor is super close to it or next to it.
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Just because killer can teleport, it doesn't mean it's good mobility…
Freddy, Unknown, Xeno, Dredge, Sadako, Demogorgon, Springtrap technically have it, but it's far worse compare to Blight, Kaneki, or Billy.
It all comes down to how quickly you can get where you want and what are your limitations for it. But you could make all of them valid with mostly number changes…Killers without any mobility are limited with this and it can't be easily changed.
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Good job dude, you were so much more civil and fair than I could muster xD
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Ofcourse having just teleport isnt best mobility but it all comes to the one thing how good the teleport realy is like many of these killers have their tp placed on map in form of some station and some have set it (best for preasure is probably freddy he can go directly on gens which is the second best type of mobility after the one that krasue,blight,dracula,ghoul,billy have until you get to gates but he has addon for that and worst is demogorgan he must set portals manualy compare to unknown who sets them automaticaly and on top of that all he gets from them is very small killer instinct,5 seconds of oblivious and gives survivors global sound cue not to mention remowing his portals doesnt take thah much od time compare to unknown and fisk for doing it is smaller, I dont say others have good mobility either but they get from a-b station faster).
The most important thing many people dont mention is billy,blight,ghoul,dracula,krasue have build in chase power into their mobility and vice versa so they dont just travel with good speed from a to b but they can choose where will travel to and can use their power for hits,injures or closing distance very fast which other killers with mobility dont have or its way weaker and restricted.Worst are 110 killers with no mobility they rely just on their whole power to help them get hits and downs because they are worse that 115 killers in chase (chucky is maybe very close or same with small model and third person camera which gives you more options in chase same as survivors have with check spots etc.), so in other words having mobility is way better than having none than it realy depends where you get with it and how fast and best mobility for the game is the one where player can choose where will he end up like the blight,ghoul,dracula,wraith can and use it as great catch up or directly hit survivors by their power while using it as mobility (they dont have pronlems with preruning like springtrap or potencionaly other killers have so getting across the map is goid thing but getting right behind the survivor you want to chase or preasure by any way on map is better thing).
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Yes, if we talk about matches, where survivors understand what distance is. Prerun probably is strongest thing you can do against killer without mobility and easily will buy you at least same amount of time as chase itself.
I remember match on garden of trash against Deathslinger, I did almost full circle around main, run into it to use BL, then do another circle around it. More than a minute of killer's time literally on nothing, he couldn't even use his power on me, because I always wasn't on his LoS.
These survivors are rare, but I'm sure if everyone had experience of a match on non-mobility killer, where they would spend 50-70% just to start chases, there would be no "no" answers.
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Slinger should already get his 24 meters terror radius back because he cant instashot you without going through his animation and his full range is 18 meters, all he has is just strong 1v1 but still not best with no mobility being 110 speed killer that has long reload cooldown and is punished hard when misses the shot by big distance, easy to prerun and super effective against him.
Worst thing is there is bug on him (same for huntress but on him it sucks more) where when you hit survivor and should get hit the redeemer bounces off like if you missed plus another huge thing which is like 2 years back you could shoot survivors through small holes which increased his skill ceiling and deapth but now it is very inconsistent and many hits you would hit through the holes or gabs in objects and structures few years ago now arent working which is just bad thing because those hits didnt gave you down but injure in most cases and rewarded skill and experience with this killer, now they dont.
For those that dissagree look at it this way he is 110 speed killer without any mobility of catch up power which is worst thing for killer and all he is about is his power (almost like nurse) which has to be very strong in chase but now its worse than before, he is range killer but he cant down you directly only puts you into deepwound and has to m1 you to get down. His range is just few meters longer than springtraps but his projectile is very hard to get hits with on long range against moving survivors due to its small hitbox maybe smallers hitbox in the entire game and this had bern indirectly by one bug and many invisiable random wall that didnt existed before nerfed quite a lot Im not slinger main but I believe they can see this issue the same way.
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