http://dbd.game/killswitch
What do you think of the upcoming update?
I've a bad feeling that this will create more disparity between two groups which is probably already the case. I know both survivor and killer received buffs and nerfs over several years but I'm not sure where my stance is within all this mess.
May I read your thoughts on this update?
Comments
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I think it's a waste of time.
Making tunnelling a bit harder but not actually discouraging it is not going to resolve the problem, while those who are adamant that tunnelling must not be obstructed in any way are going to be just as irate over this patch as they were over 9.2.0.
Trying to appease the 'tunnelling 5ever' crowd while also trying to stop the game from bleeding survivors who just don't want to deal with tunnelling anymore is just going to end up with a system that does too little to actually address the problem, but no matter how little it does, it will be too much for the other side of the aisle.
At this point, they just need to tell one of the two groups to eat dirt. Either tell the survivors that you're not going to do anything because you fear the backlash, or tell the killers that you're going to be experimenting with anti-tunnel, even if they don't like the idea of a game without tunnelling.
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I believe you're right. Tunneling is and always will be the best choice in order to efficiently save time. No matter how many gen repair reduction you have, having only 3 survivors to deal with in the game significantly increases the odds to winning a match. I talked with a very good killer before and he also said that dealing with only 3 survivors reduces his stress levels by a lot so playing killer is mentally exhausting when he has to deal with 4 survivors.
It makes sense what you say though. I don't know how you can stop something like this. I don't think it's possible without severely nerfing one side.
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Here is what will happen.
- The crowd that said their main problem was the punishment aspect of the anti-tunnel will keep complaining. You will never satisfy these people and the goal posts will constantly move no matter what you do.
- Behavior will then walk back the changes even more and we will end up with with a system that doesn't do anything. It will be so useless that everyone will wonder why they even wasted development resources on it to begin with.
- The patch as a whole will just end up as a nerf to survivors. People are really glossing over the fact that they're about to kill off syringes and styptics. It's also highly likely that the pallet density changes could be walked back in the same patch. I don't mind Behavior toning it down a tad but we all know that won't happen. They will turn all of those maps into the worst version of Haddonfield instead of finding a healthy middle ground.
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I think we're already there, honestly.
Either tell the survivors that you're not going to do anything because you fear the backlash,
This is the apparent answer, with a couple major ptb tests at least. They just can't say it out loud.
Haste stacking pulled due to backlash once it was obvious it was going to affect more than just the perks loud people "wanted" nerfed. MfT was already dead, and to no one's surprise, we still got a hope nerf after they pulled the "haste stacking" part.
Anti tunnel is just enough for the devs to say they did something, and people opposed to claim that "tunneling is dead, how can you tell us how to play", yet will change nothing in game. Back to hook, power through endurance, exactly like it is now.
the 'tunnelling 5ever' crowd
You don't understand, tunneling isn't a play style, it's a way of life. Apparently.
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Exactly. The upcoming patch is the absolute bare minimum they could do to address tunnelling/slugging and yet there are still people out there saying these changes will make the Killer role unplayable. I think BHVR often try their best to keep everybody happy but this is one of those occasions where that just isn't gonna be possible.
I think we missed the opportunity to move towards a re-balancing of the game when the changes in the last PTB were shelved. For better or (imo) worse, the game play loop of DBD is set in stone.
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Nothing useful will come from any of this. As much as I love this game the player base is the absolute worst of any I've ever played.
There's survivors that would complain the game is killer sided if killers had to hit survivors 100 times to put them in the injured state and 100 more times to put them into the dying state.
At the same time there are killers that would complain the game is survivor sided if they had a perk where they could press a button and all 4 survivors suddenly transported to hooks.
It's like 25% of the DBD player base derive their value as a human based on whether or not they can dominate when they play this game. I've been playing games since the days of pong on the Atari and I've never seen a player base of any other game even come close to the toxic total life consuming mentality so many people seen to have for this game.
And that's the problem BHVR has. They're constantly trying to appease people that will never be appeased. The best thing BHVR could do is realize they may pull in a bigger player base if they would quit trying to cater to people who will never be happy no matter what because the players they are trying to appease, on both sides, are the ones that make it miserable for everyone else.
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The Bloodlust is borderline useless, only like 3 to 5 killers can consistently use that to it's fullest and even then it's just like 0.75 seconds worth of distance.
The anti-slugging is not going to affect your average match, but it's going to be a pretty big buff for SWFs who play into it, for example sabo squads.
The new unhook boni are going to make contesting unhooks much harder for the killer, idk how it will end up, 30 seconds of 10% haste is a lot.
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It's the classic carrot and stick approach.
Except the carrot is moldy and the stick is actually a feather.
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- I'll tell you how the "anti-tunneling" issue will be resolved, just like the "anti-camping" issue. Anti-camping is a mechanic that exists, but it's so easy to manipulate that anyone who wants to camp can actually continue to do so without any problems. And it will be exactly the same for anti-tunneling, that is, it will be a little more "difficult" to do, but anyone who wants to continue doing so will be able to do so without too many problems.
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Will it solve something, probably maybe slugging but thats all.
Tunneling will be just harder, very little for blight and super hard for weaker killers like ghostface. Unique hook bonuses are just not worthy comapre what a early tunneling can give you and what it gives you.
So overall its just nerf for killers mainly for weaker ones and mediocre (as I said biggest nerf to pig and many other killers just like her in DBD history plus more pallets staying in realms that dont even needed them in first place).
Huge buff for coordinated swf as always soloq eats little bits of bread while swf takes it almost all and funny enough looks many people didnt even noticed that.
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As killer:
- Tunneling: if I return to the hook, I'm glad they'll only be one set of tracks to follow so I don't accidentally follow the fresh unhook. I'm indifferent to the bloodlust.
- Slugging: I sometimes lose a down when I chase someone nearby.This has occasionally led to unintentional bleedouts and that's a crappy thing to do and is never my intention. I'm glad they'll be at least some small measure in place to help with that.
- Camping: couldn't care less how this changes.
- Overall: little will change for me.
As survivor:
- Tunneling: a soft, weak measure that will do little to stop a tunneling killler who has eyes.
- Slugging: egerious slugging is my biggest complaint as survivor and two minutes is stupid long. Also, the griefing killers who leave me to bleed for four minutes at their feet will just hit me again the moment I stand up. This should include BT Soul Guard if its to be useful against problematic players. I'd also like to see a time decrease if only two people remain to reduce slugging for the 4k.
- Camping: I'm not enthused about this change. It's barely anything.
- Overall: kind of pathetic, and if any of it gets nerfs instead of buffs, it will be truly useless. I'd like to say I'm shocked how volatile the killer-sided takes have been but somehow I'm not.
Post edited by cogsturning on4 -
Completely agree with you. I would add more: the game have been pushing the killer role into sweating while adding mechanics - most of them, needed - that don't incentive survivors to improve. Overall this is making everyone experience worse, since it don't improve much for casual but its exploited by experienced players. for every mechanic they add without the incentive for casual players getting better, the game experience gets WORSE.
I'm currently playing a lot of SoloQ and all that you've said is perfectly true. Players really need some incentives to get better or else everyone experience will be dog poop. I've been losing so many winnable matches in SoloQ due to silly mistakes that it really dries my will to play the game if not with 3 other friends. People healing under a hook right in front a Springtrap's door; people who cleanse against plague just because they've touched something infected; people who don't know how to play against a stealth killer, doing gens in middle of nothing while they are injured, and griefing and trolling for no reason. For god, even with the 70s hook timer i've been frequently getting into struggle phase after the first hook.
Most of the time survivor in SoloQ just farm you in front of the killer without too much thinking, because you have basekit BT now and "its protected" It is what is happening in almost every match that i play Solo. Even after i've used my DS. Now imagine what is going to happen when if the killer can't "tunnel" one survivor: probably they will rely on this to be even more reckless to save, throwing in the killer's grip without too much thinking. I could spend days just talking on how many simple mistakes people make that really kill the joy in playing Solo.
If i was less experienced would think its killer fault for "not letting the survivors play" but i know from experience how hard its to capitalize on those situations when going against experienced survivors. Survivor should understand the assymetrical nature of this game and learn how to play around it, not against it.
TL;DR: the devs should focus on ways to incentivize casual players to learn the game and balance the game accordingly, than creating mechanics that do the hard job for them.
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I like it. It's about time slugging, camping and tunneling get addressed.
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The update is very flawed and there's several reasons for it.
Camping changes. These are not necessarily. They kept talking about facecamping in the stream, but facecamping has been dead as a strategy. They are targetting this at "proxy camping" which is honestly stupid. There are many reasons a killer may be within 20 meters of a hook some of them being maps like game or RPD where existing on the map is too close to a hook. It's basically the devs trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.
Slugging changes. I do not why we are so obsessed with giving survivors permanent unbreakable. If the thing we want to fix are situations where the killer is slugging multiple survivors, then the better solution is giving slugged survivors the ability to pick each other up. All granting survivors unbreakable does is give less reason for survivors to pick each other up and play as a team. Not to mention that realistically a 4 man slug only happens if survivors massively misplay.
Tunneling changes. Adding buffs to unhook survivors that give them a better chance to hide immediately off hook. This is actually a good change. Aura reading of the killer and 30 seconds of endurance are more problematic. Survivors have historically used defensive buffs offensively. I do think some matter of endurance is needed off hook so survivors can't immediately be put back into dying state before they had a chance to even more their character. Then if we want killers to tunnel less we need to give out actual incentives that are stronger than just putting the same survivor on hook repeatedly. Bloodlust 1 and some bloodpoints are a joke and will not change that the best play is to get someone out of the game ASAP.
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I really wish we had never gotten 9.2 PTB to see some bolder ideas or waited so many months into the quality of life to kind of get the obvious thing.
As some others have mentioned, also worried about what we'll actually have at the end of the PTB.
Going through the ideas
Tunneling - its an improvement, the unhooked should have more advantages. How much of a difference will it it make? We'll see.
Slugging - whatever, its going to be inconsequential the vast majority of the time. I'm worried soloq survivors will actually buy into the 'just leave them on the ground, they'll get up', not realizing the impact of a survivor being out of the match for so long.
Camping - we'll need to see it in action. Could be an improvement, could be much worse.
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About slugging: You can bet on this. Probably won't be as common as it would be with the 90s timer but there will be times where people will leave you on the ground while they commit to a gen, specially if they are far. It will be just like basekit BT: randoms won't improve their gameplay because now there is a new mechanic that do their job. I hope i am wrong.
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I'm neutral on it. I think the devs have decided to compromise with both sides and this is probably the best they could come up with. It won't affect how i play in the slightest, and i think those who tunnel will continue to do so. The compromise is simply that the tunnelled survivor will be slightly harder to track immediately after unhook, but not impossible. Probably moreso on Lerys and Hawkins.
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If you alredy avoid tunneling the extra points will be nice. If you love tunneling and can't win without it than its just a slight nerf to tunneling which will end up with more proxy camping to avoid losing sight of the target.
Its also not much more weaponizable than what we have now.
So its mostly just and incentive bonus not to tunnel, and making it slightly harder to tunnel if you still have to.
As for the team slug thing i hope all it does is prevents 4 man team slugging like how we don't see basement bubba anymore, its been reduced allot since the knockout change but still exists. I see it as a fairly long timer to be able to start picking yourself up that will only come into play if everyone is getting slugged at once.
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I feel like the changes are a pretty good example of the devs main problem when it comes to anything that might improve survivor gameplay: A lot of their big streamers and a very vocal part of their community are killer mains, they don't want to piss them off, so they try and offer a lot of carrot and no stick to fix problems.
Except the carrot doesn't really seem to work, and they're too afraid to make any changes that might be perceived as the stick. If they really took the problems of tunnelling and slugging as seriously as they claim, they would actively discourage it—which would require some kind of punishment or nerf against killers that do so. But they aren't, and they won't.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, the whole update ends up making tunnelling worse or nerfing survivors into further abject misery. I know I can't speak for all players everywhere, but looking at my group of friends who a couple of months ago were all playing dozens if not more games per week (sometimes per day) now getting on for a handful of games once or twice a fortnight…I don't really feel optimistic about any of this.
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It will end up as all of the new features they added.
Hated, half-baked and barely worth the effort and fanfare around it.
Examples: anti-camp, anti-bodyblock/hiding/afk feature, anti-go-next.
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it's going to be incredibly fun not playing the update and just reading these forums and trying to figure out, from the multiple contradictory opinions people will inevitably post on here, how good or bad the changes actually are.
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The same way these updates such as pallet density and increased hook timer have increased the gap between low and high tier killers . They have also increased the cap between solo and sfw because more people play the top tiers and swf can also make the most use of these buffs anyways . Basekit UB won't matter in solo but a swf can definetly make it abuseable . They are really missing the mark here.
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Whatever happened to the anti-bodyblocking feature? I thought collision was removed between players? I got bodyblocked in a corner by a griefer recently and I couldn't get out no matter what
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So far I would say this patch is heavily survivor sided, where killers don't really get much from it.
I am looking forward for it as a survivor, because it will create perk slot for me (I am currently using Babysitter).
I don't care that much as a killer, because I usually just stack slowdown which gives me enough time to spread hooks.
What I worry about is how casual killers are going to handle it, we already have quite a long queue times on survivors (I play only evenings), where I often have to wait from 3-5 minutes and this patch is likely to make it a lot worse.
I don't have much time to play and definetly don't want to wait in lobby majority of time I have…I really hope antislugging is not going to work in endgame, otherwise killer can as well give up. At that point I am going to support abandon feature for killers in end game.
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the harder it is to do the less people that aren't die hard tunnelers will tunnel but I understand it still does not solve the problem
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Agree. This sums it up pretty well.
At most the slugging change should require recovery and another survivor. Even then, we already can abandon very easily if the killer is slugging so I don't see how slugging even needs to be addressed anymore. Furthermore, why are we addressing something in 4% of games? Their own stats show it is not an issue. I also don't understand how they don't see that this change will make survivors just leave any teammates on the ground. Like if I'm pumping a gen and a teammate gets slugged, why on earth would I ever go pick him up? I'm just gonna stay sitting on the gen. Why would I get off when I know he can just pick himself up. This game is supposed to be a team game.
They even showed the Endurance being used offensively in their demonstration of the changes rofl.
Bloodlust 1 is a joke. This looks to killers how it looks to employees when their boss throws them a pizza party for doing so well. It's nearly insulting. This isn't even getting into the more than half the roster that aren't top tier at all but will have the bloodlust turned off immediately from their power rendering this "buff" useless. Or how about the multiple killers that are designed around slugging..but were not changed at all to compensate and just left out to dry. Twins, Oni, Onryo just to get us started.
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after the afk crow rework hit, it was too severe and players were getting crows even while not being AFK. the devs over corrected their mistake a week later and bumped up the time it takes to get 3 afk crows to 3 MINUTES. meaning if someone is body blocking you, you have to stand completely still for 3 minutes in order for the 10 seconds of no collision to kick in.
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As MJ said in Spider-Man: No Way Home, ”If you expect disappointment, you can never really be disappointed.”
Ever since the devs announced 2 days after the last PTB that they were gonna postpone the slugging and tunneling reduction features, i knew it was over. I knew they were going to strip every good/meaningful change from the systems and give us not even a half-baked but just flat out uncooked systems.
I agree 100% with Firellius in the fact that this is just a complete waste of time. if they aren’t going to give actual solutions/preventions to tunneling, slugging and camping then why even bother with this Quality of Life change?
At least in the last PtB you were discouraged from tunneling and encouraged to go for unique hooks. now, there is no punishment but also there’s no good reward. who tf is going to look at these changes and think “yeah, 15 seconds of bloodlust is DEFINITELY ENOUGH to discourage me from tunneling.” I play survivor more, so when i see these changes it really makes me wonder how this will change anything in the killer’s mind to stop them from tunneling me - If i want a killer to not tunnel, then i should give them meaningful rewards for not tunneling. I really wish they would go back to the 9.2 ptb version but tweak that system. instead of giving us these new systems that neither side likes.
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Tunnleing will always be the best and easy strategy to win. Developers can do nothing about it.
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Sill don't know why Survivors not having collision after unhook isn't a thing... I thought that was pretty universally considered a good change for both sides.
- Survivors can't use their 30s Endurance to block a non tunneling killer and bait their Decisive Strike.
- Killers like Wraith and Kaneki can't get ahead of Survivors to block vaults and windows.
- Also is so much less annoying in general as Survivor, not having to go around your teammate to run from hook...
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Poorly. Killers basically get nothing whereas survs now get every positive status effect under the sun for half a minute just for getting unhooked. It's not rocket science to realize that something is off here.
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I play both roles and I don't think this is the right system. Remove all of these silly status effects and simply add an 'untouchable' effect to whoever's been unhooked, for 30 seconds. They can heal, but can't do gens, bodyblock etc.. and the killer can't down them. They're out of the game for 30 seconds.
I actually think solo survivors are their worst enemies. When I play survivor I always try to get first chase to allow the other survivors to get the gens done.. what do they do? Nothing! There's only so much you can hold their hand.
When I play killer, I seem to get the most amazing SWF, but I'm not complaining. I usually have fun. The problem with killers is they think they have to get a 4k every single game or it's unfair.. Just have a laugh, it's not that deep.
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I'll just be glad proxycamping and hard tunneling 1 survivor is going away.
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Well, since the anti bodyblock was part of a feature that was a stitched together patch to 3 different problems, it got nerfed alongside the anti-hiding feature.
So you have to sit still for 3 minutes before you get the colision removal.
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Using a combo of their Haste and no collision, survivors were able to clip inside the killer to make hitting them inevitable even if the killer just tapped the button.
The feature failed to do the thing it was supposed to do.
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I dont visit the Forum that much anymore, but I read from time to time and I wanted to answer here that you are 100% right. It seems like changes are done nowadays just to say that they did something, even if it get reverted or weakened into nothingness.
Fog Vials for example - finally something new for Survivor, they get thrown a Bone. Just so that Fog Vials are destroyed a week after their implementation and every feedback regarding Fog Vials gets ignored by the Devs. But they can pride themselves with bringing a new "cool" Item for Survivors.
Anti-Tunnel - I was a fan of their initial proposal. Punishing Killers who tunnel (actually punishing them), but also actually rewarding them if they dont tunnel. As someone who does not tunnel when playing Killer, I was actually excited to get real Benefits, just getting BPs and a bit of Haste is not really something I would see as Benefit. Likewise I would not expect that the current Anti-Tunnel measurements will go live as they are, they will probably be watered down from PTB to Live or shortly afterwards. But again, Devs can say that they did something against tunneling. (As they did something against Facecamping, which was also pointless in the end…)
And you can expect that now that they wanted to have Feedback about Pallet Density that they will also revert that maps have more pallets, but not revert the Nerfs those Maps got as well. E.g. some Maps dont have breakable Walls anymore, e.g. Gas Heaven or Groaning Storehouse. Some Maps dont have strong Windows anymore in their Main Building, e.g. Chapel. And the overall quality of Tiles was reduced, what was a Jungly Gym before is now a much weaker Tile. But if they implement changes to Pallet Density, they will not change anything else what they did to the Maps.
It will all be the same like the Hope-Nerf for example. Devs revert something or dont implement it, but Nerfs will still come through. Same with OTR, which only got its Endurance back because people complained and even then it was only 40 seconds (not that it matters that much, but still a Nerf).
So yes, currently it looks like BHVR is testing changes they will not bring to the game anyway because then they can say "Well, we tried". And Killers will always make a lot of backlash, because it usually works. BHVR needs to try to implement things despite complaints like they did with the original Ruin Rework back then. But I fear that this is not possible anymore.
Just my 2 cents, since I liked your post. And now back into hiatus, lol.
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It sucks to think that this is probably the case but it's hard not to agree. I can't forget the sting of Fog Vials, in particular. They were talking as though they might revert some of the changes but there's still been nothing, and we all just accept that they're useless.
If this update gets any nerfs at all, it will be useless as well.
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“And Killers will always make a lot of backlash“ yep like this
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