http://dbd.game/killswitch
You can't fix behaviour
The topic of tunneling, slugging, camping has come up a lot over the years. So as a 2016 Veteran with thousands of hours, naturally I have been thinking a lot about it as well, "How do you fix this?" I have always come to the same conclusion: you can't.
What BHVR is doing, and what everyone else is suggesting is always a bandaid sort of fix. In reality you are just slapping on some tape on a hole, on a pipe that has a 100 holes… The problem will always remain and resurface elsewhere.
Due to the nature of this game, you literally cannot fix tunneling, camping, nor slugging. No matter how much we want it. At best what BHVR can do is not to discourage, but to motivate something else in order to not do any of the above. You will still have a handfull of ppl doing it of course, but at least a chunk of the player population will be motivated towards another playstyle. Right now I haven't seen anything that does this. 750BP, rly?
What bothers me about this entire thing is that BHVR has been distracted over it for about a year now (probably longer), redirecting most of their resources to it. Nothing will change, other than maybe some of the gameflow and dynamics.
I would much rather have BHVR focus on things they CAN improve, like the MMR-rework they have delayed to FEB 2026 for some reason. From my perspective, an MMR rework would indirectly fix A LOT of the issues within DBD, making the game a much more pleasant experience for both new players and veterans.
As to how to imrprove the MMR system, I will leave that mostly open for discussion. But literally anything that isn't kill/escape based would be a million times better already. Even an MMR based on the old emblem system we had back in the day would be an improvement.
Someone who gets a certain amount of average points every round, while not perfect, is defo a better way of dictating whether that person has skill or not.
Someone who gets a certain amount of average irridesent emblems every round, while not perfect, is defo a better way of defining someones abilities…
At the very least these things would suggest someone is making an effort to play the game in a proper way. An escape as I get so many in my solo lobby, while 3 others are dead is NOT a good way to determine my skill. But hey now I have to face a Blight, so brb…
Comments
-
I agree, I think the emblem system was better too. Even with the few flaws it did have.
Essentially they want killers to care about hooks instead of kills while still balancing for kills. It’s a contradiction. If you want killers to focus on hooks, then balance and grade mmr around hooks.
They don’t want players to care about their mmr either but this is flawed. That’s like telling a league player to not care about their rank. This isn’t how games work. People should see their mmr, it makes them want to grind the game to improve and move up the latter.
The games being treated and balanced like it’s a party game when it’s not.
7 -
Correct. And the answer for the game being balanced toward "party game" is simple. It's easier and less time consuming for the devs. Usually when something is easier the result isn't as grand as something that takes much more work to achieve. Easier plaster fixes has always been BHVR's go to design method for DBD unfortunately.. :/
0 -
The main root of the issue for tunneling is there simply is nothing more efficient than the killer getting the trial down to a 3v1 as soon as possible. So long as that's true it'll still happen, no matter the hindrances doing so. Even something like a map-wide gen regression per unique hook wouldn't alter that fact.
5 -
I disagree that you can't change behaviour because I know for a fact that the anti 3 gen system changed the way I played Killer. I used to play Legion in a way that was all about defending a territory of gens and never straying too far from it. Back then the maps were bigger and I just accepted that I would have to let certain gens be completed uncontested. My basic strat was to force a 3 gen situation, then deplete the resources in the area to take chases I could win and grind out a victory by repeatedly regressing the gens. I'm sure it was a very dull experience for the Survivors but there was just no other way for me to win some of my trials besides maybe camping and tunnelling (something I was unprepared to do). Since Legion have been buffed and a 3 gen can't be defended indefinitely anymore, I've had to switch to a more chase orientated play style (or just lose). So it's not true that behaviour cannot be changed because it can.
The trouble is, BHVR heard the feedback from the last PTB to be that we as a collective player base don't want things to change too much. We communicated to the devs that we want the game to stay more or less the same as it currently is - hence an anti tunnel system that neither prevents nor encourages Killers not to tunnel and an anti slugging system that won't kick in unless the Killer slugs the entire team or loses track of a slug, by which point the lobby may have abandoned the game anyway. It is what it is, but this is kinda what we asked for.
I'm not optimistic about the future MMR changes, tbh. I bet anything they come up with will be shot down by the community's unofficial spokespeople (content creators) before any of us get to test it, anyway. I think the best MMR system we could hope for in DBD would be one that matches intent with intent - e.g. sweaty players should match with other sweaty players and casuals with other casuals. As to how to construct such as system, I couldn't say.
-2 -
But to change that, one (=BHVR) would need to change the base nature of trials. At least that's how I think of it.
I mean of course the killer needs to weed out the survivor team one by one and if everything goes ideally, the killer does this fast. Looking at this basic concept of DbD should not make anyone wonder that tunneling could come to mind as a viable strategy. So I agree.
You maybe can change things like 3gens, overtuned perks or perk combos, but you cannot change that some people play for achieving goals and achieving them fast and efficient even if it is a bad experience for the opponent. It is an asym after all, this also lies in the nature of the gameplay itself.
0 -
The goal is to limit not eliminate it. Not as a easy button but one where you must weigh risk and reward. Mostly when it comes to slugging. As for tunneling, they are trying to use the carrot than the stick. Many will say where's the carrot and they may be right, but I'm happy to not be getting the stick like in the last PTB.
Yes, there are those that think the solution should or does remove these elements but they are wrong or misinformed (like usual).
Also, yes. You can't fix BHVR.
2 -
I also think some of the balancing issues stem from balancing killer like it’s a 1v4 but balancing survivor like it’s a 1v1v1v1v1. They do this to improve the individual survivors experience which makes sense but it has the consequences of destroying balance since it’s “supposed” to be a team game. BHVR balances in a way where they REALLY don’t want survivor to need teamwork at all.
Also weird balancing metrics. Like in a 1v4 assym game the “1”(killer) perks are supposed to be individually more impactful than the “4” since there’s multiple of them. Like take healing as an example. We’ll Make It is 100% healing for 90seconds, while Leverage is 30% for 60seconds. For how an assym is supposed to be this makes no sense. Those values should be reversed. Leverage should’ve been the one at 100% for 90. This is just one example, this is repeated for many similar perks.
1 -
HHonestly, If one side is to win by eliminating the rest(3 people at the least) then it should be balanced for it to be a team vs 1 and not (1v1vv1v1) v 1, balancing any game, where one side has different wining conditions (the amount that survive in this case) needs more finesse in my honest opinion
But people think im crazy if I were to say this
2 -
If there were more reason for the 4 1's to actually be opposed to each other, it would be more fitting of a focus. But everything is more focused on 1v4 while addressing agency concerns of each of the 4 1's, which is why it kinda creates this anomaly. There are next to no situations where survivors are directly in opposition with one another, and I always felt like it was alluding to things like when there are 2 survivors left trying to outsurvive each other for the hatch (which is already unhealthy to begin.)
The individual aspect of the 4 is almost exclusively focused around end results not being dependent on one another. If you are the only survivor to escape, you won, regardless of the loss of the others. I get the idea is that there are times where one's ability to survive could be impacted by another player's survival, but the goal is always shared and sabotage is strictly discouraged (and in many cases, straight up against the rules) so it always felt like a weird mantra derived from a very poor explanation. Its much more about things like leaving people behind than it is going "versus" them.
Instead the vast, vast majority of interactions between survivors are to either benefit one without expense to the other (though sometimes there are self sacrifices, making it even more altruistic,) or benefit both. Its absolutely a team dynamic, but since you have no control over the agency of your teammates, it feels more like it gets used to make excuses for not using one's one agency to compensate for the performance of the others. In reality the split feels more like
1v(1/1/1/1)with an ideal strength distribution being something likeXv(1/1/1/1)with theXbeing something between 3-5 depending on the rest of the game around it. I've posted in the past that the formula could even by dynamic depending on the strength of remaining survivors in an attempt to combat tunneling, but after seeing stuff like Ruin being both weak and self destructing when someone dies (regardless of if it gets any value to begin with and lasts more than 15 seconds) tells me they wouldn't be able to figure out a way to scale things with something like4v(1.3/1.3/1.3/dead)in a reasonable manner.I have no doubt this post will get downvoted.
3 -
Well with unknown mmr changes coming I’m hoping that one of the things is focusing it more as a team game. They need to reward mmr ranking as a team, not just individual survival. So like if I loop the killer for five gens but die and my three teammates get out that would be an mmr win for me, not a loss as it currently is. The “win” needs to based on more total team result than just you individually. Obviously we can have the mmr “score” influenced up or down by individual behavior but the core highest influence should be the team result.
2 -
In short there isnt anything rewarding as tunneling, spreading hooks waste killers precious time and gives survivors more time to create preasure for killer by doing gens and have some solid perks that are strong ready like deliverence or dead hard which isnt the thing when you tunnel, you get better chance to win with 3v1 because everything you do creates more preasure on survivors and they might try to save the tunneled one but wont do gens so he still gets tunneled and they lost solid gen preasure or gave you some slugs or injures which is better than doing 12 hook game.
0
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
