Who even wants to tunnel?
The last ptb changes for killer were scrapped because they allegedly held the killers hand too much, meaning it guided the flow the game much too heavily, implying a right way to play. The devs have always leaned heavily on player agency, or at least thats what they say.
I think one of the issues with this ptb and the last ptb is a lack of understanding towards why tunneling exist, and mistaking what they see as player agency which is actually player necessity. Tunneling feels necessary. Killers do not tunnel because they want to tunnel, they tunnel because they want to win. Survivors can be given all the protections in the world, and tunneling will still be one of the most optimal strategies because there isn't an alternative. Killers want an alternative. I don't want to tunnel and I'd like to think everyone else is tired of being pressured into feeling like they have to or they're throwing the game.
Bloodlust isn't even a good reward for the killers its meant to help. Ghostface is one of the weakest killers and he can't even benifit from bloodlust because he's better off going undetectable. I'd prefer the old rewards because it was at least a tangible benefit that was a step towards not needing to tunnel. The survivors can keep their protections to punish tunneling, but killers still need an alternative because killers are punished more for not tunneling than they are for tunneling.
Comments
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Nobody is confused on why killers tunnel. The debate is whether or not excessive tunneling is healthy for the game.
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Honestly Tunneling should be in the game as a last resort or used as a strategy in some situations.
Tunneling is going to happen regardless of these changes and may increase Tunneling instead of stopping it. If you want to stop Tunneling from happening you need to dig deeper into it and figure out the why its happening. If we give killers a reason not to tunnel then it will stop or even suppress it.
Like it or not tunneling will never go away. Because its apart of the game
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Well.
As killer your primary goal in DbD is - watch out, big surprise incoming - to kill as many survivors as possible.
So how does the average killer achieve this goal? By several strategies and ways to play the game, including:
- insane pressure on multiple survivors so that the team is more busy with staying alive than with doing gens (can best be done with killers like Blight)
- stall the game for so long that the survivor team slowly falls apart or maybe even gives up partly or completely
- kill survivors as fast as possible which includes hard and soft tunneling
To completely delete tunneling from DbD you would need to change the base nature of the gameplay loop. But what should that be on the killer side? Stop killing?
I don't know man. By now all these discussions, the overall mood in the community and the last two PTBs make me think they should rather focus on bugs and real QoL in menus, accessibility and such things than trying to change the gameplay in a way which seems completely uninspired and forced (by whomever).
It just goes nowhere apart from frustrating so many players at this point. And not only one side. Both sides.
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You're absolutely right. Tunneling and slugging are legitimate strategies, and it’s hard not to say that the developers lack understanding of that. Survivors already have perks and other means to counter these tactics—so why don’t they use them? It feels less like a countermeasure anti tunneling itself and more like a response to players who simply hate tunneling.
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My problem with tunneling is that 90% of the time it's done by people who play high tier killers. I frequently hear the narrative that it's "the only way to win" on weak killers. You are going to get destroyed if you attempt to tunnel good survivors on a killer like Ghost Face or Legion. I seriously can't even remember the last time a weak killer successfully tunneled me. Weak killers are bad whether you tunnel or not. It's the high tier killers that benefit the most from it. The sweatiest players are ALWAYS the ones playing Ghoul, Krasue, Blight, Nurse, Dracula, Spirit, etc. They're the ones who hard tunnel from five gens and stack four slowdowns against randoms in solo queue.
I tend to agree with Otz that they should have kept the last system and just toned it down. It would punish the degenerates who tunnel at five gens on Blight and give more benefits to the weaker killers who can't even utilize tunneling effectively. They had the right idea but as usual they caved to the morons who were overreacting. They did this instead of making sensible changes to the initial idea. Now we have this terrible system that nobody on either side likes.
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Many players, especially those in North America, often seem to view this game as a fun TRPG for five people. However, the essence of this game is a competitive battle.
For the Killer to reach 3k or 4k points, the shortest path is to reduce Survivors' work efficiency—either by tunneling or camping to eliminate one Survivor early, or by forcing them to complete tasks other than generators. Survivors, aiming to escape, repair generators to deplete the Killer's remaining HP as quickly as possible, or steal the Killer's time through stealth and chases. Perks and items that create second chances, like Dead Space or Light Save, are also highly effective.
The problem is that BhVR is adjusting this based on the reasoning that "players can't enjoy the ritual for long." This is why they've increased survivor hook durability and implemented base kit BTs. Meanwhile, their response to gen rushing was merely adding 10 seconds to the base repair time. Maps that gradually shrunk to shorten search times ended up increasing chase durations instead due to higher pallet density, so the overall effect was negligible.
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Tunneling, slugging and camping are mechanics that sway the game too much for the killers side. They all need to be addressed. They need this update to go through this time minus a few things like the wicked perk and syringes being too strong. Also the slug time is simply too long at 120 seconds to leave someone crawling. 90 seconds was fine. Otherwise the changes are fine as is.
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^ This.
I fully support this statement (and I too watched Otz' video on the current PTB)0 -
Some people in this community are hard to get a grasp on this: most of the matches people don't tunnel because they CAN they tunnel because they NEED.
Hard tunneling and hard camping are the most effective way to make the game BORING. And aside from people doing winstreaks - which is less than 2% of our community - no one wants to do that. But spreading hooks don't generate enough pressure to stop the gens so killers are quite forced to push a 3v1 scenario as soon as possible. I personally spread a lot of hooks because i like chases but i would be lying if i say i don't lose matches because of this.
Killer should really have a better reward for multiple hooks or else people will regard to tunneling, in any forms its possible.
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This is true.
Yes, you can push the narrative that tunneling for pressure is necessary, but it isn't always the best choice.
Is it worth it for a Pig to tunnel, or rather use her power to slow down the game? What about Sadako? Trapper? Of course Nurse can remove a vulnerable player easier, but the same applies to healthy players.
Plus, if you hard tunnel, guess what? Everyone else genrushes.
Now, I DO think there should be a bit of a reward for spreading pressure. A bit more than we got now.
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honestly give us basekit BBQ, the BP stack for each unique hook (1 token 25%, 2 tokens 50%, 3 tokens 70%, 4 tokens 100%). take it a step further and allow it to repeat (each first hook 100%, second hook 200%, and so on)
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As above. It's rare I play against a pig or a wraith, but when I do, it's unlikely they tunnel. On the other hand, most of my games are Blights who bring meta slow down and tunnel at 5 gens. Something clearly needs to be done..
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Only fool would not tunneled after this ptb comes live the rewards for not tunneling and spreading hooks are huge joke and its not worth it because you will get more punished for it and risk the insults in endgame chatt like gg Ez if you play nice so best for me will be something middle.
I will try to focus on two survivors and prioritize them above others which will get only injured,infected or downed and maybe hooked for perk effect like pain res or noway out etc. but my targets will be two same survivors and when one dies other one will be my main objective and if everything goes as planed I will have 1v2 on some gens left but I will try to kick them out of game before gates so I can go and pull third kill which is good strategy in my opinion, its not clean hardcore tunneling but its still not going spreading hooks either something between that will work and either hardcore tunnel or more spreading hook strategy can be played from this depending on situation of the game.
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Same for me I dont like tunneling but most times I go for it because I know if I dont do it on last gen left I will end up with one survivor hooked and other 3 will want to pull a save so they get 4 man out which will happen most of times if I dobt get that last hook as far as it could be from both gates or they screw up the save but what can most m1 killers do against 3 survivors going for save not much (this comes from my many hours of experience where I had many matches that I lost only because I didnt went for tunnel or slug when I could).
Unique hooks should have some effect that are worth it and not almost none as now in curent ptb.-1 -
I had recently a game where i made 6 hook while the gens were up, 2 on each survivor. Then i went to chase the only person without hooks and the gens got finished. Then, the 3 came to save and the last one had Deliverance. Its was a 3 man out - i managed to down at least one of the rescuers. If had went for 6 hooks while the gens were up i probably would got a 3k to a 4k.
Unique hooks really should have some form of incentives otherwise spreading hooks will always feels like a waste of time.
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Tunneling, like slugging, is not a “strategy” or “tactic.” Don't imitate streamers who teach you such cheap gameplay worthy of a three-year-old. Think for yourself.
Destroying the basic gameplay of survivors is an easy way to gain an UNDESERVED advantage over your opponent.
Why undeserved? Does a killer need any perks for tunneling/slugging? No. Maybe it's an indicator of the killer's skill? No, not really. It's a cheap trick that ANY beginner with zero hours of gameplay can use, because yes, after nine years of existence, this game still has such flaws.
And you know what's funny?I've seen MANY examples where main killers who are unable to play without tunneling/slugging for one reason or another go to play as survivors and SUDDENLY they curse the killer in the chat after the match for tunneling/slugging them. Amazing. What's wrong with that? Don't you like it when people do to you what you constantly do to them?
That's what I'm getting at.
It's convenient to call the destruction of the survivors' basic gameplay “tactics” and “strategies” when you play as the killer most of the time and don't encounter the other side of those actions that you yourself do against other players, destroying not only the basic gameplay, but also simply destroying their enjoyment of the game.
Are you complaining about toxic survivors? Have you ever considered that this might be a consequence of your cheap “tactics” and “strategies”?
Perhaps you should treat other people who are players just like you with respect?After all, you don't get anything for winning a match except virtual currency and emotions.And it seems that killers who constantly engage in tunneling/slugging simply assert themselves in this way in the game, knowing that they have an undeserved advantage over their opponent and that their opponent already has a losing position when playing against them.
But what's the point of playing a simulator of endless victories?
What's there to be proud of when you brag about getting -4 in a game where the win rate of average killers SIGNIFICANTLY exceeds the win rate of the strongest teams of players on the survivors?This game is primarily geared towards killers, and I think that's the main problem with it.
There are 5 players in a match. Each of them has to do something and try to win. There shouldn't be loopholes that ANYONE can exploit to gain an undeserved advantage over their opponents. It's complete madness.
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I am sorry to say, although you have a valid feeliny, just because you dont like it doesn't make it a tactic or strategy.
Even in other games a "cheap strategy" is a strategy.
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Strategy is when you have to think with your head and be creative to achieve your goal.
There is nothing complicated about mindlessly destroying the gameplay of survivors with tunneling and slagging, and that is why absolutely any noobs take advantage of these flaws in the game, because you don't need to think with your head or know anything about the game to do so.
There's no need to confuse concepts and call obvious flaws in game design “tactics” and “strategies” when they directly destroy the gameplay of survivors because there is simply no built-in system in the game to counter such killer gameplay.
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I think everyone who plays survivors can agree, you never want to be tunneled unless you have alot of hours or have a full anti-build.
Otherwise it makes no sense to want to risk yourself die early on and lose the game.
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Thinking?
"Oh hey 1 gen left i have three on one hook and one on death hook who was just saved who do i go for?"
Isn't thinking? Not thinking would be
"Oh another survivor to hook" and chasing the next person you see no question asked
By this same example, DS, Dead Hard, OTR. As they are now should NOT exist ether? Because you get their benifits from not thinking, or paying attention? Or base kit bt?
"Oh but you can use it strategically"
Arguably so can tunneling?
LLets Be honest, tunneling isnt fun. But to sit here and say that there is nothing stategic or tactic in tunneling is wrong.
You have to take the whole match into account.
Hard Tunneling bad
Soft tunneling, depends on the state of the match.
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