Pyramid Head's Cages are Laughably Useless Now.
Pyramid head main here. I don't think cages are worth using anymore. They're basically glorified remote hooks from the anniversary event. I think they've been over-nerfed and I'll explain why.
First off, no more loud noise notification when a survivor is saved from one. With experience this really isn't an issue. I know the majority of the time where my cages are. But what irks me is that this was removed and called a "bug" despite being part of his kit since release. It's obvious Pyramid Head has been targeted for the anti-tunnel changes since his kit allows for it so much. I agree that this should be curved from being too strong. But these changes don't really address that, only make it more complicated for new players or less experienced ones. BHVR wants to eliminate all tunneling, indiscriminately. And with that has made the threat of cages non existent. You still get BT, the killer has to guess where you are, and you're across the map from where he sent you. Awesome. Tunneling fixed, right? Not really, see, there's this neat little green add-on that lets you see the unhookers aura. So not only do you see where they unhooked, only needing to watch the hud for when the survivor's icon changes, but now you get COMPLETE INFORMATION ON EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING!! Chances are, they're gonna heal at the spot or run off together. You get all that info for free. So really all this has done is add more hurdles to tunneling with him. Nothing much else. And for a killer as good at zoning and if you're good, can hit you across most tiles, not much of a hurdle.
Second is BT on cages. There's 0 vulnerability being caged. Because this is really just to stop PH from killing you as soon as you get out the cage. But here's the issue, I can just stand in front of you with my power ready, and shoot you right as you get out. No more BT. A better fix for this issue would be to have the cages relocate the survivor once he enters a bigger range, as this would solve not only the issue of him camping cages, but also give him some value as survivors now have to go across the map to save the caged survivor. Hypothetically of course. An even better fix? Stop farming your teammates. Lot's of the time I'm a filthy tunneler, it's because I didn't let someone unhook in my face then let them finish the 90% gen next to them. Or they decide to pull their friend out of the cage despite hearing my increasing terror radius.
I just think if you want to remove the tunneling aspect of cages, rework them. Right now the best thing they're good at is either a fast hook or denying a pallet save. Sure, you can avoid DS and such with it. But let's be real, you don't know those perks are there until you see them. PH's design can be really problematic, yeah, but also tunneling is a very real threat that makes his secondary power matter. Once survivors realize cages aren't dangerous, they won't care anymore. Just to clarify, because I know some of you will think this for some reason, and that's if you even read this far: I don't think PH should be able to tunnel for free just because of goop. I think there should be real consequence to his cages to make them the threat they're supposed to be. They should leave you vulnerable because they're not hooks. Nerfing half of a killer's kit because you can't figure out how to fix it's issues is bad. That's how you wind up with a skull merchant.
Comments
-
I'm still going to cage survivors regardless because it's cool as hell and I love getting captive sacrifices in the game but you're generally right that there really isn't much use for them anymore aside from denying pallet saves. I think we can make them more of an attractive and unique option even with the current changes. Because endurance/No unhook notification is a thing I propose changing cages so that you get the skill checks on the first phase, they just won't kill you for missing. Second phase no longer has skill checks but the cages themselves relocate every 30 seconds to put pressure on survivors who don't go for the save. A bit stupid maybe but I'm just throwing my two cents in.
3 -
I don't think cages are worth using anymore. They're basically glorified remote hooks from the anniversary event.
How are you going to claim they're not worth using and then immediately follow it up by handwaving a huge benefit?
It's still way, way faster than normal hooking and can't be denied.
9 -
Well, consider that caging a survivor makes you immune to ALL forms of saves, base-kit. You're never forced to do it, so it's fine to have some downsides. You instant hook, but you don't know exactly where they are. You prevent a potential save, and in turn the survivors are protected from camping and tunneling.
The more altruistic the team is, the more they are punished, because now they wasted their time attempting a save and have to cross the map to unhook, wasting even more time. If the survivors are smart and leave you alone with your downed survivor, you can freely hook them and save the torment for the mini mori.
4 -
the cages let you hook a survivor immediately while also avoiding ds, dh, shoulder the burden, resurgence, etc. Even if you do not tunnel and don’t care about this benefit, the ability to practically instantly hook a survivor and continue chasing others nearby is a huge benefit that no other killer has (besides sadakos rare mori) and would have to slug. So in a way you also somewhat counter anti slug perks.
4 -
People here forget that this insta unhook provide a huge downside of person being send far away, sometimes even close to gens people worked on. So, basically, cages now brings more advantages to survivors then for the killer, until they meet a person who already knows spawn locations and use them for tunneling or force survivors to map traversal. Few seconds of time savage doesn’t compensate it, no matter how you trying to present it.
My advice for casual players on him use torment for mori or first cage now, if u are sure that everyone else close to you or they want commit to flashlight save. For everything else u rather help survivors, especially if you don’t consider to tunnel and need other tools for pressure. Don’t listen people who are trying to convince insta hook is enough compensation. He doesn’t have mobility to get great value from it.
And bring 4 slowdown/4 aura read. He doesn’t have synergy with 90% of perks in this game. This killer doesn’t tolerate majority of stuff from modern DBD.1 -
I dont think his cages are his main issue why he isnt played that much even after his cool addon rework which is one of best in whole DBD. His power (punishment of dammed) is very hard to use because you kinda have to aim where will survivor will be and plus minus add his punishments travel speed something which is quite easy on huntress and slinger, for me his very limited turn rate is bit easy for survivor to pridict where he is looking and how wide area of his punishment is, other thing I dont get (Idk if its technical problem or just devs dont want to gave it to him) is his punishment doesnt travel up stairs (up any elevation) which isnt sound weak but its nothing op like dracula can do it but pyramidhead cant even the fact his whole power is only better than draculas hellfire by going through walls and his cooldown isnt 10 seconds after one shot thats all advantages his power has compare to draculas hellfire because dracula cant hit survivor over obstacle that is same height as that survivor (male one I think all have same hitbox in height so even if the meg is small compare to bill both have same hitbox) he can flick his power way easier and then has two other great abilities that help him with chasing and dealing with loops further and most important mobility. Pyramidhead can shoot downstaier but its still buggy and it doesnt work if he is on the stairs, he has to be above that stairs for this to work so maps like swamp maps,larrys or rpd main he is just m1 mostly with some yoning if survivor has some respect for it. His biggest problems are probably no mobility which has many killers, his chase power is very hard to use and require huge experience on each map and stair case to be used effective, lastly his new buffs and nerfs with his addon rewok gave him more range etc. but nerfed his zoning which means he is slower with his power and that makes holding W and chaining loops way more efective against him so now he has same struggles as slinger and pallet density uptade only made him worse because of this, only difference is his power can hit through walls and he can skip walking to hooks with his cages still better killer than slinger,unknown,nemesis but he is just very punishing to make mistakes which makes him so unreliable compare to other killers. Still I like him but if I go against good survivors that can doge him I just have to have break from him because its nuts.
0 -
It also makes the hook happen far from the killer and very easily accesible for someone for an instant unhook, meaning it generates close to 0 pressure.
-3 -
why is it that people complain about carrying survivors to hooks taking too much time but then theres people on forums complaining that a "glorified remote hook" isnt good ? hm
3 -
Remote hook that makes all unhook perks useless too.
0 -
A huge part of killer gameplay is controlling where your hooks are, putting them in places where survivors can't easily save for free. You know what cages do? Randomly put survivors somewhere, often right next to teammates. This means you get a hook, yes, but most of the time NONE of the pressure that comes with said hook. That survivor isn't gonna be stuck doing nothing for very long. Their team won't have to sneak around to get the save. It's far more common to have them get sent to a cage, then be saved less than 30 seconds afterward. A quick hook with no pressure is farrr worse than a normal one with pressure. The benefits of potentially outplaying hook perks or slug perks (which normally isn't very hard) is also miniscule. Along with avoiding pallet/flashlight saves, which are almost always a waste of time for the survivors. Realistically none of these things are enough compensation or impactful enough to be worth going for. At most they're convenient, at worst they're a free save. This is all even considering you get a survivor tormented in the first place btw. Cages aren't consistent enough to need to be heavily nerfed with no compensation.
-2 -
I like this idea. I think it kills two birds with one stone. Makes tunneling not an issue, since the cage would be moving around a lot. While also not just being hook lite. I think what would be even better, or even just as it's own change, would have the spawns work like a Pinhead box. Just the farthest away from both sides. Also makes caging at all stages actually have it's own weight.
1 -
Since it's Way faster it also helps with the time required to pick up and hook, aka more time to patrolling or start a chase.
Its like in a way the perfect example of anti camp and time saving in one way.
The only problem is the occasional complete loss of pressure from certain scenarios(that ironically do happen in 2v8)
Buts its a good example of where the game could go depending on the tweaks, no?
-2 -
Is this even a complaint about Pyramid Head when your core complaint is "i no longer get easy wins by running to the saved survivor and downing them before a reset"?
4 -
I think PH is fine he got some good changes and new Add-ons that make him fresh and Interesting.
-1 -
- Cages aren't "mandatory."
- Cages make altruistic actions completely useless (no pallet saves, no flashlight saves).
- Cages greatly speed up the "hooking" process. For example, if a survivor is down next to a very advanced generator, use the cage and go kick the generator.
- Now, to say that cages are completely useless is a truly bizarre statement.
2 -
I’m a bit confused about what changed about them. They removed the ‘uncage’ notif, sure, but the main functionality of the cages never changed. They also still deny all perks related to unhooking.
4 -
I'll spell it out for you: There's no detriment to being caged now. You essentially get all the benefits of being unhooked despite perks, ones which u might not even have. Then total stealth when being unhooked, making it basically a free save. This is all considering you don't get sent 5 feet next to a gen your team is working on already. Cages at this point are worse than hooks in every way, as they're only good situationally and generate basically no pressure. While also not even activating perks killers get for hooking. If you're just gonna strawman me by saying I'm mad I can't tunnel anymore, then don't even bother getting into the conversation.
-6 -
The cage has always been a situationally useful tool and that hasn't changed. The only change that has occurred is the noise notification and the upcoming anti-tunnel changes.
It's not really a strawman it's the only thing you're complaining about.
0 -
Insidious devs calling removed years old features a "bug" is such a common occurrence in PvP games.
1 -
I got the cage survivors trophy so I'm happy
0 -
Again, disregarding everything I've said to focus on one detail. What I want is for cages to not lose pressure. I want there to be some consequence to being caged. There isn't that anymore. It doesn't have to be tunneling, but there needs to have some sort of urgency to being caged that frankly is completely gone now. Literally any compensation like shorter sacrifice time or literally just not spawning right next to a teammate. Boiling it all down to "a niche function" and not a strategic part of his kit (i.e choosing what hook stage you want to use a cage on or what scenarios it'd even be worth using in outside of save denials) doesn't address anything. Half of his kit is basically a downside now. There is no actual reason to cage anyone atp because chances are you'd have better chances leaving them on a hook.
So no, I don't want "muh tenneling" back. I want my secondary power to be useful. Because outside of that all I have is a 1v1 power that's countered by leaving the loop. This is basically like if plague couldn't see scratch marks with corrupt purge because too many people use corrupt purge to tunnel. Doesn't really fix anything, just makes it more awkward to do.
0
