http://dbd.game/killswitch
Some question to the killer mains
Whenever there are changes in balance, there are a lot of complaints, from both sides.
Recently the topic was on tunneling and camping, and i heard agruments from content creators, that dont really resonate with me. They say that tunneling and camping is boring to them as well, but in order to win it is needed, and if the killer plays differently, he might lose.
So the question that rose in me about balance was, what to balance for, and that, i have several questions to killer mains, so i might understand it better. (i mayself play both sides, sometimes more killer, sometimes more survivor, but due to known issues survivor is no longer fun)
- If a match had survivors and a killer of equal skill, what should the outcome of such a match be (on average)?
- Do you think this outcome could be reached now without tunneling and camping?
- Should the game be balanced toward such outcome, and whatever it should or shouldnt, why? To what goal should the game be balanced?
- If that outcome can be reached without tunneling and camping, but doing so increase the chance of winning on the killer side, should or should that not be taken into account for balance-purposes?
- Should the game be balanced around tunneling or camping, or should that be ignored?
- How should kill and escape rate look like if the game where balanced around skill?
Playing both sides i have some Idea what balance should look like, but maybe i am just wrong, since the devs also seem to disagree with me. So, what are your opinions on this?
Edit: bonus question: at what point in the match should the matches outcome be forseeable?
Comments
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i play killer mostly with survivor sometimes here are my thoughts
- If a match had survivors and a killer of equal skill, what should the outcome of such a match be (on average)?
the side that played better should win (either 3-4 escapes or 3-4 kills). means who outplayed in chases the most, who made the best game decisions, etc.
2. Do you think this outcome could be reached now without tunneling and camping?
assuming both sides are equally skilled, generally no, especially if everything is allowed (no comp restrictions or rules)
3. Should the game be balanced toward such outcome, and whatever it should or shouldnt, why? To what goal should the game be balanced?
the game should be balanced so that good teamplay and good chases rewards survivors, and good game sense and good chases rewards killer. we need less of automatic "ggs" such as meta blight against 4 soloq guys or dredge against 4-man.
4. If that outcome can be reached without tunneling and camping, but doing so increase the chance of winning on the killer side, should or should that not be taken into account for balance-purposes?
if this game is balanced around skillful plays, then the outcome should come based on who played better, so they don't need to intentionally favor the balance to killer or survivor. i don't know how they would remove tunneling and camping but not massively buff killers at the same time to adjust. currently i feel like the game is designed and attempts to be balanced around these strats.
5. Should the game be balanced around tunneling or camping, or should that be ignored?
the game's design itself generally encourages killing a survivor as fast as possible and camping a location for killer. realistically speaking, whatever they balance around, they're going to be balancing around tunneling and camping anyway. they can't just ignore it as these strats are fundamentally a part of the game. there would have to be massive gameplay design changes to really remove tunneling and camping.
6. How should kill and escape rate look like if the game where balanced around skill?
would change individually. i think a great player with equal skill on both killer and survivor would have a higher kill rate than his escape rate because it's a 1v4 game. one survivor making a mistake can throw the entire match for the rest of the survivors, but on killer you only have yourself to blame.
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- Really depends. If solo, then more likely a killer until he didn’t commit to mistakes. If sfw, obviously them. 2k-3k more likely for really tense and good match. RNG and everything else influence on it a lot. If SFW, more likely 1-2k.
- I don’t find it realistic and possible. The fact 4 survivors will be presented in match is the hugest advantage they can get. If you gonna remove tunneling even with compensations, it will start to be heavily survivor inclined.
- I feel game should be balanced around people of same skill set playing against each other at first. Outcome isn’t definitive. Casuals for casuals, sweats for sweats.
- No. People will just shift hate from tunneling to new term. The issue of tunneling for other players is that it’s efficient and harder to counter. The issue is in winning for people.
- I always believe it should be considerated as part of gameplay, so survivors have proper UI and skillset for saves. Saves should be guaranteed through good survivor mechanic performance.
- 60/40, in ideal world. 50/50 is impossible because of sfw and s tier presence. Considering solo is majority it is logical they gonna gave slower overall result.
Post edited by tes on5 -
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1 average is a coin toss on whoever has more skill (but this game is balanced in a way where the average survivor fails at do gens and catering to them so on average it's killer that's more skilled)
2 in the higher end where it's all good players and survivors that know how to focus on gens and usually their on comms it's impossible w/o canping and tunneling since that's the only way to reliably create pressure
3 my opinion is the game should always lean slightly in the favor of killer (since there are 4 survivors to 1 killer and the killer can only be in one place at one time barring exceptions)
4 if a killer can't camp or tunnel how is the killer supposed to generate pressure? since there are 5 gens and 4 survivors (3 that just do gens if they're competent) so they can complete they're objective faster if you gave survivors base unbreakable (always a terrible idea since survivors can just leave that person on the ground since they can pick themselves up) the killer gets put into lose/lose situations like flip flop/power struggle or a survivor just hovering while the slugged is under a pallet while the others are on gens so either the killer commits to the suvivor hovering (leading to a free escape) or trying to commit or at least hovering around the slug (so the hoverer has a better chance at the save but can't pressure anywhere else)
5 the game should just leave tunneling and camping alone it's been in the game for years and is has been a valid strategy for years
6 can you elaborate more? is this with the basekit survivor buffs being stripped? it's current state now? or a reset?
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I'm almost a retired killer main these months - i don't like the current state of the game, and i'm working a little bit these weeks - but i will try to answer some of the questions:
1 - The issue is: survivor can be SoloQ or SWF and killer could be a strong or a weak one, maps and other RNG. A Good Blight against 4 Good Solos could end in a 4k or a 3k; a good Ghost face against a good SWF a 1k at most.
2 - Without Hard tunneling? Yes. Without strategic tunneling? Probably not. Without Slugging? Never.
3 - The game should be balanced around a match where you can chase at least 3 different survivors and still have a decent chance to win. Its hard to say the "desired outcome" because between a 1k with 3 hooks and a 1k with 9 hooks there is a huge difference. The best outcome for a match is where the killer and survivors have a real chance to win and play the game, doing chases, enjoying the game into the micro and macro level of gameplay. Probably the aimed 60% killrate BHVR intended is fine, considering killer is stronger at lower levels of skill.
4 - Tunneling, camping and slugging has been in the game since the beginning. If they want to remove these strats, its fine if they give some form of compensations like faster pickup, basekit gen regression and some form of basekit info - to give at least a hunch where you can start a chase.
5 - Its the choice of the devs. I can see DBD being fine with and without tunneling - even when i play survivor. They should really consider what they want DBD to be a craft a better version of the game on their vision, not trying to please both "forms" of DBD at the same time.
6 - Considering only statistics, the intended global 60% is fine (as i've said), since at the lower skill level killers do better. At higher skill levels probably a 50/50, with some matches ending into a 4k-3k and some into a 3 escapes or 4 escapes. If every match had a predetermined ending DBD would be boring as hell; the thrill of comebacks and snowballs is what keeps this game alive.
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Oh boy, here the downvotes come:
If both sides are at the same Skill level and the game would be balanced it would be a 50:50 Kill and Escape rate. The big problem with that is that the Killer would have exact 6 hooks. Because if he gets more than that the Killer was much better he gets less the Survivors were better so they are not on the same level.
Now there are 2 outcomes with 6 hooks. 2 Survivors dead, which is a draw or 1/0 Survivor dead which is a loss to the Killer.
Another big problem is the fact that when 1 or 2 Survivors die they could be the same over and over again (thats the reason why some players are saying that the escape rate for them is low while it is only unlucky)
Another point which many aren´t ready to discuss is that chases have to be short as hell when Gens are done effeciantly. From time to time I hear one of these from my friends. "I can only loop the Killer for one gen and then I get downed." But to lose 1 gen for 1 down is still in big favor of Survivors. (Personally I think all these "I looped the Killer for 5 gens" videos gave many survivors a complete wrong expectation of what is good and what should be a big exception)
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