Embracing the True Death of Horror in DBD 9.3.0 (Long post)
So, 9.3.0 is coming, and I've been reasonably vocal about my disdain for the changes.
Who am I?
Before we begin I want to clarify, this is completely from my perspective, and while I stand by my conclusion and don't use "it's my opinion" as a shield, I'm talking about a very subjective subject matter, so while I always try to be objective, this ultimately is just my opinion as a player who started playing 15/05/2023, and now has almost 2400 hours on record. How much stock you put in that and what I have to say, is entirely up to you.
I also want to point out I am technically a Survivor main, even though I consider myself a Pig/Trapper main a lot of the time. I have typically followed the bloodpoint bonus for most of my DBD life, and cause weekends were usually where I got most time in, and ofc if playing with friends I had to be a Survivor, that meant I have played far more Survivor games than killer.
Please note, I am also a console player, who mostly plays soloQ, and whether Killer or Survivor I often don't run excessive slowdown, exhaustion perks or typically meta builds. I have played many games with some very high level ttv players at times, as well as complete newbies, and whole heap of games as SoloQ. I have seen the full scope of the modern DBD player experience, both as a complete newbie, and playing with seasoned PC veterans of the game with 6000+ hours each.
I say that to say... whatever awful experiences you think you've encountered that I haven't since 2023, I very much doubt I haven't experienced it at some point.
Can you call DBD a horror game?
Dead By Daylight has fascinated me as a game ever since I first took and interest in it in April 2023. I have looked through as much of its history as I can, taking keen interest in design perspectives, shifts in paradigms, balance changes and thematic shifts throughout the games history.
DBD has shifted a lot from its original horror premise and has become much more about it's gameplay in recent years... and there are a large number of voices that say DBD hasn't been a horror game for a while, citing things like: -
- The changes to level lightning and removal of fog.
- The crazy and bright neon colours of survivor and killer cosmetics.
- The goofier skins for a number of killers (notable the elephant and rabbit skins of Clown and Legion).
- The inclusion of Killers like Trickster, Skull Merchant, and Houndmaster that don't fit traditional horror tropes.
- Licensed killers and Survivors that stretch the definition of what people consider valid horror IPs, such as D&Ds Vecna, Tokyo Ghoul, Tombstone Raider, Nicholas Cage, Five Nights at Freddy's, etc, etc.
- The general feeling that DBD isn't scary anymore.
My counter arguments as to why DBD IS still a horror game: -
- The changes to lighting and removal of fog in many cases is a regrettable downgrade in the horror aura, however it was a necessary change due to the fact that dark and obscured maps trend towards characters with darker clothing and skin tones are much harder to see, which is still a factor even in modern DBD. The wide variety of colourful and brighter maps I genuinely believe is solely there to make it so the effectiveness of using darker clothing Survivors and Killers to hide is not consistent and a Pay to win design.
- The crazy bright neon cosmetics is not a precursor to horror in my experience. I've seen plenty of examples in horror media of characters wearing things like rings of glowsticks getting murdered in classic horror. A person can be wearing anything and that doesn't discount it as horror.
- Skins are skins, not every skin is gonna be scary to everyone, there are some people who think the Unknown is terrifying, and others who think the Unknown is a joke. These "goofy" skins as they are so dubbed can have a unique horror experience for some people, as they associate an innocent looking child's party costume worn by a serial killer as a pretty effective scary idea. The hidden in plain sight killer if you will. This is subjective, and depends about how you personally think about horror.
- In a similar vein Trickster, Skull Merchant and such all have their lore to sell their idea. They may not look like traditional horror, and they are not meant to be. The effectiveness of each killer is up to debate, I personally would have tweaked these killers in their designs to present their idea a little differently, but ultimately it's still subjective as to what you can define as horror.
- The same point as above is that horror is subjective. I've seen wildly different takes on what people, such as people debating on if IPs like Paranormal Activity, Drag Me to Hell, Bioshock, White Noise or Predator can be called horror. I would argue in all these cases they are, even if I don't like some of those IPs. Outlast or FNAF as games are things I'd consider as horror, even if I think they're crap... the point is horror is subjective.
- I challenge anyone to play any horror game or movie series for over 1000 hours and tell me it's still scary. Overexposure is a thing that will inevitably warp your horror perception of DBD, but that doesn't mean it isn't a horror game, and a new player coming to DBD will definitely feel from the Terror Radius, the chase music, the red light, the screams across the trial, the Mori's (especially the new ones), the jump scares in various maps, the creepy ambient music in basement, and even the more nasty experiences such as tunneling, slugging and camping, that DBD is a horror game. Hell I still get a jitter in my chest every time I'm the last player alive and I'm trying to open the gate, hoping the killer can't get to me in time.
Why I think we're at the True Death of Horror
So if I'm making the point horror is so subjective, why am I saying 9.3.0 DBD is the death of it? There is one simple rule that I feel 9.3.0 violates regarding the horror base tone of DBD:
As a Survivor, you should never feel safe.
Despite losing in DBD often (you can see from my stats I come under the game average), ultimately I have never minded losing in DBD all that much because this is meant to be a horror game.
- Does it sometimes feel hopeless if you're being tunneled? Yes.
- Does it sometimes feel like you're helpless if you're slugged? Yes.
- Does it sometimes feel like you are being personally persecuted when camped? Yes.
- Is it sometimes highly frustrating when going up against meta builds and full sweat lords doing all of the above? Yes.
- Are obnoxiously overpowered killers annoying and enraging to play against? Yes.
But I also ask...
- Is it boring to dunk on a weaker killer because they don't have tools to put up a good fight and you have them consistently by the scruff of the neck? ... Yes.
- Does it kill all your fear of a killer watching them getting embarrassed and put through the ringer all the way through the trial? ... Yes.
- Do you end up laughing at the killer, or worse feeling sorry for them when they get bullied all game? ... Yes.
My Horror DBD Philosophy
I would argue, as a horror fan, that a lot of the "unfun" things in DBD are a key part of what makes DBD a horror game.
Unlike other horror games that have preprogrammed instances and instructions for their enemies, DBD is unique because there is a human intelligence behind the villain, and the vanquished of said villain ultimately matters only as far as how much of a threat / how credible the villain is.
In current DBD, does it ever feel like you are truly safe from the Killer and can basically ignore them? No... because even against:
- Trapper he can lock you in basement
- Pig can pop your head by making you scream
- Sadako can slug you on repeat while building up condemn across the team
- Wraith can keep bouncing between you and hitting/running until you eventually crumble
- Myers used to be able to mori you on the spot
- All killers, they come back to hook and tunnel you, or slug you while they finish of your death hook teammate.
These are things you always have to watch for, the possibility these might happen is what makes you as a Survivor contemplate how confident you feel trying to help/save teammates, or saving yourself. The important point is, you as a Survivor, were never safe...
With the safety nets were bringing in for Survivor, we're removing the last few shreds of things that make DBD a horror game, and are railroading killers into being autonomous entities that are forced to play a certain way. Instead of having our horror undertone, where we have to pit our wits against another human being intent on killing us, instead we're fighting killers who are forced to play like an NPC, where we can unhook with impunity, ignore slugged teammates without care, and not give a damn whether we are camped or not.
The killer is becoming a purely mechanics driven role. Only the strongest killers will compete, and their gameplay/plan is set. Our 1vs4 async horror themed tag game, just becomes a tag game and nothing more.
It seems that's what the vast majority want DBD to be, a tag game where everything becomes purely mechanical, where weaker killers are toothless and teabag fodder, and stronger killers are mindlessly dashing across the map, playing tag like good little boys and girls.
I've always championed for the cause of trying to keep as many horror elements in DBD as I can... but if we're gonna just remove all Survivor vulnerability and keep putting the Killer in gotcha scenarios if they don't play tag the nice way... it can't be defended any more...
The Horror of DBD well and truly is dead.
Comments
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Hate to tell you this, but even if the changes went through as-is, Survivors would still be far less safe than when I started playing. Safety doesn't have too much to do with horror.
The fact of the matter is, DBD hasn't been a horror game in a long time, it has no atmosphere, no identity. It's more just a game with horror characters in it.
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With all due respect, given our discussions kf the past, you're a legend of the game from its infancy where the game had its most broken mechanics but players never had the thousands of hours of skill and knowledge they do in modern DBD. You've seen the era's of map infinites, broken mori's, numerous slowdown and second chance metas, and the evolution of DBD over it's lifetime. When you started playing, players in general were much worse and trying to hide and not be found because looping wasn't estalished yet... or at least a very largely unknown skill in teh player base.
As time has gone on, the game has switched to this looping idea being the centre piece of DBD gameplay, which in turn has led to many elements of the game being redesigned as I've described. We have these high level killers now that can get across the map super fast, brute force hits around tiles, and bypass Survivor defences because that's what is required to keep up. These killers are all action, no horror, and being the level of play you are (given what I've seen you post in the past), this is the game you see all the time.
All of which is basically my point. In the absence of stealth, when not playing the high level DBD rush machine, the mid levels of play feel much more like a horror game. Killers don't have the power to exert pressure on gens AND still get back to hard tunnel at the same time like they do in high level play. The constant feeling the killer can always come back for you is the only horror left to be had in modern DBD, and to be fair, the ineptitude of soloQ helps avheive this as well. That killers can slug you if you make it easy to do so, or can camp you if you give them good reason to, these are things that make DBD stimulating to me. I have been unhooked many times on death hook and tried to hide, holding my breathe to try and not be found for the tunnel. Or tried to loop somewhere the killer has to drop chase.
If I'm succesful, there have come moments I've said to myself "I need to stay hidden above all else", and eventually "Ok, I can't hide anymore, its do or die". These are things that typically happen against mid to low tier killers, high tier killers you just can't get away from most of the time if they choose to tunnel, so there is no attempting to hide or stay out of the way, it's all action, no horror.
These 9.3.0 changes are basically to my mind are admitting defeat, and just hammering nails into the coffin of DBD as a horror game... the game is basically being geared only to high level killers, and all the nice little features left in the mid level that still give the horror experience, are just being ham fistedly shunted out the game on the altar of "play nice".
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The altar this is being sacrificed on isn't "play nice." It's the altar of "balance."
Sometimes, there are worthy sacrifices to said altar. Like old DH, or instant heals, or old mori's and I tend to think tunneling would be worthy sacrifice as well.
However, other times, we burn things we shouldn't have. Like atmospheric maps, old graphics, fog, horror aesthetics etc etc. It's possible that tunneling could end up in this category as well, I simply don't know for sure.
The continued push for balance has, ultimately, destroyed the horror theme of the game. This last change may be the final nail in the coffin, but it wasn't the largest nor most impactful nail struck. It just happens to be the last in a long line.
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Do we know if and when this abomination will hit live?
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Haven't been paying too much attention after they chickened out of the first version and showed off a completely ineffectual version that has zero positives.
So no.
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Same for me. At this point, I feel like I have to repeat a point I made a few months ago:
- in the pursuit of balance we made the game even more unfun, just to realize that true balance was never an option.
When will they learn, that band aids will destroy more than they fix?
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Thats fair, though I don't think it can be called "balance" when you have killers fundamentally incompatible with the playstyle being affirmed by the 9.3.0 changes, that can't and won't be realistically be buffed to compensate for being forced to play that playstyle.
With the tunneling changes, Pig, Hag and Trapper cannot be forced to play like nice Blight.
With the slugging changes, Sadako, Oni and Twins cannot be forced to play like nice Blight.
With the camping changes Huntess, Plague and Executioner cannot be forced to play like nice Blight.
This isn't balance, it's affirming 1 single playstyle above all others, the playstyle that is all action, not horror. There is no change you can make to these killers to allow them to thrive in this arena that rewards their unique playstyle... all you can do is make all killers homogenous...
However that seems to be a sacrifice many people are happy to make.
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Personally, I think the death of horror is inherent to the arcadey nature of the game, which encourages deep familiarity. Knowing the exact numerical values of your opponent’s abilities means you know, at all times, what your opponent is capable of, some techs notwithstanding.
I’ve long thought that the change to explicitly state the numerical value of add-ons was the first point that the horror of the game was fading. It gamifies what used to be heavily flavoured aspects of powers and items. It allows players to optimise their builds, and turns the add-ons, which originally rich in lore, implicit storytelling, etc., into just images + names that modify some number in your toolkit.
Furthermore, the repetitive nature of the game turns what is supposed to be a threat into an annoyance. This is present in all horror games that want you to replay them. Players then ask them to be nerfed because they’re annoying, the monster gets nerfed, thereby reducing the threat of the monster, reducing the horror factor even further.
Lastly, as a disconnected thought: what kind of horror could DbD even be?
Psychological horror doesn’t function with the game’s premise. There’s simply no room for it, especially now with how optimised the gameplay has become.
Body horror wears off upon repeated exposure.
Cosmic horror is also largely psychological in nature, and is entirely irrelevant if you don’t care for lore.
Phobias suffer the same fate as body horror: repeated exposure is bound to reduce the effect.
Gore, see above.
So, like, what’s left? Horror requires the player/reader to be willing to engage with it. Generally speaking, the current playerbase doesn’t care all that much about the horror anymore. They want to play a competitive game.
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When people stop spending money on the overpriced cosmetics.
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Thank you for this post.
Not having a feeling of safety definitely increases the horror vibes. Unfortunately, it would apparently kill the players to play into the fun, scary vibes and not go full sweat every game, which is why BHVR is trying to put their foot down… for better or worse.
As a side track, I have gained yet another argument towards why free, Undetectable piercing aura reading is a bad idea, huzzah!!
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I dont think that will change anything honestly. Its people publicly supporting the horrible decisions by not speaking out. The dbd playerbase became conditioned to just accept BHVR's pracitces. Until that changes, why would they do anything but what we are seeing them do right now (and for the last few months / years)?
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Update is tomorrow?
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So, like, what’s left? Horror requires the player/reader to be willing to engage with it. Generally speaking, the current playerbase doesn’t care all that much about the horror anymore. They want to play a competitive game.
Indeed, and this is what catering to a mass market always ends up doing in any game. It takes the unique selling points of the game that gives it its niche and its identity and slowly strips them away until nothing of the original premise/concept is left.
Horror is already a bit of a niche format already... DBD being a competative game... it's a game of virtual tag... and what things are good in a game of virtual tag? Speed, finding players quickly, and the ability to land tags around obstacles...
Can you say Dash Slop? Cause that's all a competative game of virtual tag will be. I suppose this patch was inevitable 😏
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This game don’t have strong identity. It's hard to say the game is about looping when the highest encouraged meta is shift w, pre drop, because well, even after 9 years, looping still stays as one of the hardest skill to achieve. So even in terms of “chasing”, I don’t see it. Never saw. And some stealth and horror is also gone.
Because majority of people not that fond of being in community or in game. It’s purely on BHVR shoulders to decide following up to “momentum” feedback of the person who play few hours in a week rather then person who currently spend daily in the game and their consultants.
And that's why this game lacks of identity. They listen only part of community for who it's just 7 minutes entertainment. They frustrated about something in moment, they complain. And BHVR chose to listen them entirely. But such people come and leave.
Look at Ghoul. Funny simple killer because it's really frustrating to think about your positioning, macro as killer, hook control and other bs, and you want to be constantly in chase. Think about tunnelling removal — it’s really frustrating to try to communicate and teambuild within their MMR mess, to pay attention for HUD, to take responsibility, to trust, so people want just constantly messing around and do what they want as 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1, so they dislike to face heavily counterable playstyle. No one likes when potato teammate throwing the match, even more harder is to consider yourself being potato, so simple answer is point on 9 years old killer only meta.
Think about nerf of fog vials. Instead of collecting reviews and adjusting, they choose an extreme approach. Same with these PTBs. Because if some random Tom not that loud about this anymore, then it's a success for their team. But they keep forgetting Tom just a guy who plays at evening and he always find a way to blame other side in something, as soon it turns out he forced to actually oppose and survive/kill despite resistance. Tom doesn't care about identity, aesthetic, he eats content because well, Myers chasing Meg in AOT outfit is funny.
But honestly, Tom shouldn't care about identity of the game. He paying money for such identity already existing. If Tom starts to dictate his game vision because it was lacking before, as well as others players, it’s just gonna be funny and absurd chaos like DBD is now. The problem game is asymmetrical, so you always have to sacrifice by other side experience if following such approach.
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Not really related, but I personally loathe the term 'dash slop'.
More to the point, I think you're right in that it is more or less inevitable, by the game's very design. By appealing to the many, the few that made it popular in the first place lose interest.
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I 100% Agree. I started sense the D&D Chapter came out and it was a horror game. Now it feels like a Role Simulation game with Arrows telling you where to go and do.
The weaker the Horror part is the More horror is lost when playing.
The game became popular because of the Killers. And what I mean on that is People came her to play and go against there favorite Killers. And if you weaken The side that people came here for. Well the veterans that is
When I first played the game was fun and engaging. I wanted to play against strong team survivors I wanted to play against a good Killer who does his job very well.
Now I just load into a custom game and log off. The game has lost what it was and thats why its dieing. The passion turned into a cash grab that has horror characters in it. It is a forgotten legend
-5 -
I find it fascinating that from your perspective, around D&D's addition, you still considered it a horror game. That loss of "the vibes" happened way earlier for me.
Makes me wonder if new(er) players still view it as a horror game, simply because they're less familiar with it.
Or, put differently, maybe I have become jaded.
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Not really related, but I personally loathe the term 'dash slop'.
Is fair enough, I use the term because it succinctly describes a problem I've identified in many games I have formerly been a fan of, are usually are popular features that undermine the more tactile elements in the game.
Mobility/Repositioning quickly is almost always valuable in any game, I like games to be something you have to think a bit more about, the more different and unique the thinking puzzle is, the more I'm interested. To give an example, the entire point of a "class" in class based games for example is to have specific strengths, but more importantly, specific weaknesses that other classes provide. If you have classes that effectively do the same thing, what's the point?
The reason I dislike mobility as powers in games is quite often they switch a tactile skill into a mechanical one. Mobility achieves several things at once: -
- It allows players to play aggressively, manifesting as the ability to constantly throw caution to the wind and try their luck (think throwing power constantly at Survivors and forcing pallets for DBD).
- If they win an exchange and have the advantage, their rapid movement often allows them to press that advantage to quickly capitalise on it (think quickly undoing the post hit sprint away of Survivors).
- If the lose an exchange and have to disadvantage, their paid movement often allows them to quickly undo that mistake and prevent their opponent from capitalising on it (think getting stunned by a pallet/Decisive Strike, but still cutting off a Survivor before they make the next one).
- These kind of abilities often allow the user to snowball, as they can get ahead by playing aggressive, and once ahead, retain the above abilities but now with even greater risk of the other side falling even further behind (think of downing another Survivor very quickly after a hook, and then making it hack in time to tunnel off hook as well).
- These abilities also allow the user to dictate everything on their terms, the opposing side can only react to what they do, they cannot force a difficult decision out of them, they are matters of their own plan (on DBD think of a Clown committing to tunnel a Survivor who take them to main building of Disturbed Ward vs. The same with Blight).
These elements, while loosely defined, are seen in many types of tactile games, and their appeal is they are flashy, allow you to forgo many of the risks that come with your decision making, make your opponent have to work much harder to outplay you, and replace many tactile limitations/weaknesses you would normally have to account for with purely mechanical ones that can be bypassed with appropriate input skill.
As such I like the term, because to me it means "fast and stupid". Not meaning the people who play it are stupid mind you, but merely their decision making is nowhere near as challenged compared to other choices, and thus, these sets a baseline in the game that anything that doesn't offer that mechanical skill expression can't compete with...
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Oh I'm not dismissive of the definition, it's the term itself that I don't like. It feels rather cynical and assumes a lack of care. I also have it with 'friendslop', which is arguably an even worse offender.
I know it's rich coming from me, since I am the same person who subscribed to the whole 'descriptivism over prescriptivism' thing. But it just feels inherently dismissive. "I don't like this therefore it's slop" kinda deal.
idk it's based on vibes more than anything, nor am I asking anyone to take it seriously. You just won't hear it from me.
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1: I'm not sure a multiplayer game can ever be truly horror. I think horror in video games, movies, books, etc. frequently relies on controlling the viewers perspective. That's really hard to do in a multiplayer game.
2: I do think DbD is excellent at tension (being a thriller). In just about 40 years of gaming, I don't think I've ever cared as much about the end result as I regularly do in DbD as a survivor (I like killer, but it has the same feeling as lots of games). Getting down to the final gen, knowing even with the gates powered, escape is far from guaranteed, is amazing.
3: That said, and this is the feedback I frequently give BHVR, I don't think there's a game that I frequently find as absolutely pointless. Survivor tunneled out and 3 gens to go? I'm not scared, just bored. Slugging, camping, tunneling (old 3 genning being another example) - aren't tense, they certainly aren't scary, they're boring.
I probably wouldn't have stayed in DbD if I hadn't gotten the advice early - have something else to do planned as survivor. That is I think the harshest criticism I've ever given the game: the idea that a horror/thriller game is improved by having another activity planned for when it gets boring should inspire change.
On your point of never feeling safe - true, but it has to be balanced with 'you should never feel like you don't have a chance' (we're both slightly overusing never). Knowing you are going to lose isn't scary, its just boring.
4: I really don't see how the changes BHVR has been considering are going to change the idea of tension, but hopefully they will improve the feeling of the game being boring.
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For background, I played DbD pretty soon after it released, then a few years later around Deathgarden (which I really enjoyed but had some massive flaws), but I only got into it about eight months before you.
Post edited by crogers271 on5 -
The game is horror in a surface way, but I can't really feel any kind of way about the argument towards fear. I've been taking in the horror genr—from 1800s literature to modern film—since I was a kid and no piece of fiction scares me. It's just not possible because it's not real, and my line between fiction and reality is very thick. I personally find horror mostly comical and I often approach DbD in that same way. Even when I was fairly new, I didn't feel the way you're describing for newer players. I thought the game was mostly funny. Plague is one of my top killlers despite a low KR because I think she's hilarious. The genre has different effects on different people.
Being slugged repeatedly or camped into second aren't things that make me feel tense and edge-of-my-seat, they just piss me off because the game allows them to happen. I know the killer who's body blocking me and counting to ten is a not a scary monster, just some cheeto-fingered jerk who can't manage the 1v4 the game is meant to be so they have to force a 1v3. I'm far too aware of the other players as people for me to be feeling anything like immersion in the horror elements of this game. And, as you said, after thousands of games, we're all pretty numb and accustomed to everything. It's very rare for me to have a match that makes me feel tense.
But I also don't see what you're arguing against, tension-wise. You can still be tunneled, slugged, and camped if the changes go through. It's just not going to be super duper easy like it is now.
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DbD is just a tag game with Horror Charakters if you want it that way.
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- DBD is an "action game" with horror themes. Initially, it was conceived as a "hide and seek" game; stealth was almost encouraged, so the darkness, fog, and the general tone of the maps were truly horror-themed. Then the "loop" became increasingly important, and especially the killers didn't like (and still hate) the stealth style of gameplay. So here we are, a game entirely focused on action, and therefore light is really important. But I don't understand the drastic change in "horror tones." Let me give you an example: the current Coldwind Farm. If you take away a bit of dirt, and a few dead animals here and there, it seems like a really nice place to spend a relaxing vacation. If you take a look at the old Coldwind Farm, you'll immediately understand what I mean.
- Edit: In the current Coldwind Farm there is a very cute bread basket as a prop, which seems to have been hand-made by an artisan baker.
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Fair play, to be fair, I am rather dismissive of dashes and haste buffs.
I personally hold the perspective haste is something that is obviously good in a game such as this, and is a cheap/lazy way of making something meta. Not to say you ant have haste, but you have to be VERY careful when and where you apply it.
With the lastest run of killers, haste seems to be the "quick and dirty" way of making something viable...
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Is it fair to say your view is that once tunneling, camping, and slugging become less effective, DBD stops being horror because survivors gain some protection? And that horror only exists if survivors can never feel safe?
If that’s the core of it, I’m struggling with why those specific tactics are what define “real horror.” I get the idea that forcing a killer into targeting rules undermines the fantasy. I can even agree that dictating who the killer can chase isn’t scary. But by that same logic, there’s nothing scary about the killer tracking someone by bright neon scratch marks or hearing map wide sound notifications. DBD already bends or breaks most classic horror rules because pure horror simply doesn’t translate into a competitive game.
So if we’re talking about DBD purely as a horror experience , yes, I agree it misses the mark in plenty of places. But I don’t believe protections against tunneling, camping, or slugging are what push it off that mark. The game is full of mechanics that sacrifice realism and genre accuracy so the game is actually fun to play. Scratch marks, aura perks, entity blockers, HUD information, hooking instead of instantly killing, crows that alert your location when you hide, not being able to fight back against the killer… none of that would exist in traditional horror, but they’re necessary here for the sake of gameplay. There are limitations, rules and restrictions for almost every part of DBD and I don’t think adding more of them to these particular tactics is doing something that all other mechanics already haven’t done. I dont think these tactics should be excluded from balance just like everything else in the game is, even if it’s for the sake of an inaccurate depiction of horror.
It’s the same kind of compromise DBD has always made. Horror is the theme, but gameplay is the foundation. And the foundation already bends genre rules in every direction just to function as a game.
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The true horror of this game will always be toxicity in EGC imho
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I'd like to think my point is little more nuanced than that, in that what makes DBD a horror game is the fact you are facing a human intelligence, a player who is far more powerful than you and trying to kill you .The real amazing point of video games as a medium is to put you in a scenario that you wouldn't experience in real life.
Imagine being in Texas Chainsaw Massacre... if I'm put up on a meathook, and someone breaks in to get me off so we can escape, in that moment I am fearful of the "killer" coming back and cutting me down again. I am in a weakened state, and an easy target... the only way I might not be the immediate target is if my ally is a more apparent target and I get away unnoticed, or if they go for them instead.
If I am the unhooker, I am trying to get this other player out alive, it is important I do so when the coast is clear or if I have no other choice. I need to put myself in harm's way to try and protect this person.
These are the ideas that swim around the threat of tunneling, these are the "horror" tropes and scenarios playing out how theynlogically would in the same scenario in real life. Take this same scenario again and now slap 30s of invulnerability, improvement movement, no sounds or visual indicators for teh killer to track you... I.e. you are as safe as can be. This defies the horror idea and I don't see how you can argue with me on that.
This is why I prefer low and mid tier killers to high tier killers, because the fact the killer can't freely sprint across the map to tunnel, and actually has to put a pretty big commitment on tunneling, with the threat of the likes of decisive strike and alike, we actually get to play out our horror scenarios.
Getting rushed down by a tunneling Nurse, Blight, Kaneki or Spirit, doesn't play out like horror scenarios do. The 9.3.0 changes don't stop these killers really... which is just bloody great isn't it? But they sure as hell stop the killers who actually do have to make quite a commitment to tunnel from posing the threat and eliminating the horror element from teh scenario. All arcade bullshit, no actual horror.
Yes gameplay is important and should be a carefully considered factor, but my entire point is the game is becoming just a tag game, and abandoning any premise of maintaining its horror theme. Horror is not meant to be nice and pleasant where we all have fun and larks, its supposed to feel tense, and uneasy. We all understand the rules of the current trials, and I consider part of the game to make it as costly as humanly possible to tunnel and slug. On high tier killers it doesn't matter, but it does on mid and low tier killers... and that's the game that's dying.
DBD I think will be fine, I'm sure the Fortnite marketting style and arcade type gameplay will be fine, but any characters and mechanics that fed into the ideas of this being a horror game, now suck completely, and have no reason to play… so as I said the horror elements of DBD just die.
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They really need a character limit for posts... Essays created probably by chat gpt. To argue for some vague point? I really don't know after reading your whole post what the heck your point is... You either hate the direction of the game trying to balance the survivor role around crummy tactics or so other ambiguous grief.
But geez what you said and your point could have been conveyed in a paragraph longer is not better and some times less is in fact more.
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ChatGPT? Please, such a trite and dismissive post, with no intention of understanding a different perspective. So to respond in kind:
Some us aren't of the "can't read longer than a paragraph before getting bored" social media crowd. If you come into a discussion with no intention to engage with it, why are you even here?
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DBD hasn't been a scary game since 2016, and it definitely hasn't been a horror game since 2021 at the very least. You got giant cartoon bears, Lara Croft, Nicolas Cage (as himself), Survivor skins that strip them down to nothing but their undies, and a Killer with a $20 skin that turns her "big and scary" dog into a poodle. Sorry to say but the horror aspect of this game is long gone, it's pretty much a horror-themed Scooby-Doo chase simulator at this point. The sooner you accept that, the more you'll enjoy the game I suspect.
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There's two facets of this in my opinion.
The first being that horror is a novel experience. Horror relies on the unknown to sow fear. When we're talking about a PVP game where you're considered green until you hit the 500 hour mark, that fear is a limited experience. It fades with each new trick or skill or mechanic you learn. Then when you finally know enough about the game, you are no longer afraid at all and those caveats of feeling unsafe turn to frustration.
The second is that, as @Pulsar said, the true horror aesthetic has been dead for a very long time. For me, it was the addition of anime and Kpop that did it. For others, it was the lighting changes that happened far earlier than that. Are we really supposed to compare it to the likes of the IPs the game pulls from when we have neon-clad characters with SD character charms on their waist running away from a hatchet wielding maniac in a bikini?
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