Vigil needed to be nerfed ages ago
Why is this overpowered perk not nerfed yet? Recovering exhaustion perks super fast and making killer power weaker is insane to me. Hindered from freddy might as well not exist.
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It's definitely too powerful.
A single perk that renders all Status Effect Perks useless, while making Sprint Burst / Dramaturgy extremely powerful, all without any downsides. Not to mention it gives Aura to nearby survivors too.
IMO it should only work on ONE status effect at a time, not everything. And it shouldn't work against Hindered/Exposed.
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30% faster recovery hardly renders all status effect perks 'useless'. If you insist on calling it useless though, how many downsides would the killers like? Maybe it should only activate once a trial. How about it requiring totem cleansing or chest opening to activate - that old chestnut never fails to make survivor perks useless.
Since the game is being designed around the killer's rulebook for survivors these days I figured we should just cut to the chase here.
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Compare tinkerer to vigil
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Not sure why, but compared them. Seem unrelated. Neither affect one another at all. What is the comparison?
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If we want to compare "bad perks" and perks with tons of "limitations" tinkerer is the poster boy for a perk that has a meh effect combined with limited activation effects that doesn't combo well with most of the killer roster. Moreso pointing out this "woe is survivor perks that could get nerfed", there's many perks that have been consigned into the garbage can for far less than a perma 30% effect reduction with no other stipulations
And just in case you are confused compare OG tinkerer that could proc an infinite number of times to it's current incarnation that only can proc once per gen. If you will picture a vigil that has the same effect but a cute little one liner "you can only help reduce one effect per survivor per trial with this perk equipped"
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So basically nerf it into the ground. Like everything else the survivor side would get? Gotcha. You need not worry, it'll likely get done anyway with how things are done here.
But Ill try it too. Lightborn would be a better perk to compare. 100% nullifies flashlights, flashbangs, some perks, and anything else that might blind. 100% all the time. Not 30% reduced duration, 100% of it, all the time. Ah, I see why you picked something like… tinkerer. Eh.
I've never been one to compare one side to the other regarding perks, but here we are. 1v4 is a massive thing to try and balance around. There will never be a 'balance'. But that's another discussion.
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The big Problem with Vigil is that it only hurts the weaker Killers which need Status effects to keep up.
Want examples? Here I go~
Vigil vs Nurse, Blight, Krasue, Ghoul. Well you get your exhaustion perk back faster. Will it stop them from beeing in your neck after a few seconds? Nope~
Vigil vs Trapper, Wraith, Pig, Legion, Ghostface Freddy, and so on. You get your exhaustion perk back faster. Will it stop them from beeing in your neck after a few seconds? Oh hell yeah~
Most status effects proc on M1 Killers (God thanks that they fixed this on Nurse) You negate Killers like Clown half of his power, Ghostface expose cut in time. Friends till the End can even end before the Aura stops showing XD.
Vigil is like the old time DBD when you brought a flashlight against hag. Was the Flashlight op at all? Nope. But vs Hag it was kinda free win. Vigil is the same only against the weaker Killers and compared to an Item the Killer can´t see it.
To the thing with Lightborn. Imagine Lightborn would not reveal itself. How many Survivors would go nuts if they see the flashlight beam blinding the Killer but nothing happens. Screams all over discord that someone has no timing and all.
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Mate let's compare
Ruin,
Undying,
Pop goes the weasel,
Call of Brine,
Tinkerer,
Dead man's Switch,
Scourge Hook : Pain Resonance,
OG Opression with 80 second cooldown,,
OG Hoarder that originally intended to reduce item rarity but was so broken BHVR just ripped that part out of the perk cause they couldn't get it working,
Franklin's demise in its many incarnations,
and many, many other perks. I am only calling out killer but the absolute same can be said of many survivor perks. I will argue that none of the above had multiple cycles like DS nerfs/Circle of healing which took ages to get brought down let alone the silliness of its PTB incarnation(you could stack Boon: COH and literally out heal the killers M1 swings)
My point is not "nothing should ever be nerfed OR let it reign supreme forever", instead I'm trying to say most of the perks in DBD on both sides are trash and typically when BHVR nerfs a perk they throw into the garbage bin. I'm merely pointing out its' been done many times on both sides, arguing against a "woe is survivor all our perks get trashed" when stuff like 80% Dead Hard pick rate was a thing as well as how anyone from the old days can tell you how fun weaponized Decisive Strike was. BHVR has no qualms about garbaging the meta on both sides, and they will continue to do so as long as pick rates and win rates are their primary metrics of "Should X thing get a nerf?"Following the above, why exactly did Tinkerer go from one of the best perks into the garbage bin arounnd the time of 6.1.0? Was it BHVR intelligently examiining the perk and deciding the best way to reduce its effect? Or was it looking at a spreadsheet of most used killer perks and saying "ok how do we remove this item from this list?"
EDIT: And being real vigil is by far an outstanding candidate for nerfs, let's take a look at pentimento as a comparison point; Originally 30% gen reduction speed that requires a survivor to cleanse a totem and then not break that totem/other totems in the future after the killer re-ignites the totem(which is garbage against swfs who can call out what they have cleansed and where). That was deemed too powerful and broken and was nerfed down to 20%….how is Vigil providing such a massive boost with less work to get it going fair?
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Remember. Dark arrogance is apparently powerful enough to have a downside. But nearly halving almost all negative duration status effects in the game isn't powerful enough for a downside.
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It's 66% faster recovery.
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I understand where you're coming from now. But there's a list of perks like that for both sides. BHVR isn't really picking one side or another imo. They're good with chopping any and everything up.
But again, Ill do the same. Compare OG dead hard to its current version.
I get your point, and even agree. But every one just wants everything to get nerfed and feel bad. Why? Who wants a game where everything just gets destroyed and tossed? Why does BHVR do this? Why do we do this? Okay, end rant. Thank you.
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Honestly I'd not mind tinkerer being buffed again, the new 3 gen protection means it only gets so much use anyways.
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The problem is that many perks are fun for one side and horrible for others.
Just imagine you get back old DH and Adrenalin because it is fun.
But Killer gets old pain res and eruption back.
Both sides claim that nowaday it is impossible to win games without these perks and let me tell you what neither side reached 100% losing rate.
It is not about breaking other peoples toys. It is about discussing about perks which are problematic. (What BHVR does to these perks is their fault not the opposite side) Best example take Fog Vials.
An unlimited Item which gave a strong effect and butcherd franklins demise but that doesn´t matter. Many players Survivors and Killers said yeah give it tokens and it is good. BHVR nuked the complete item.
We are saying nerf vigil. Don´t let it stack or fix the numbers, not make it useless.
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I agree with you, BHVR has an awful track record and there's by far too many perks that have been thrown into the garbage on both sides. I wish it was as you say, it would make for a much better game in my opinion, even if it would probably be harder to balance.
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didn’t it just get nerfed last major update? why are we still wanting more nerfs? this is how perks get gutted, they get multiple unnecessary nerfs. let vigil be. you can’t stack it anymore so i dont see why it’s such a big deal.
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It was just nerfed to not stack anymore, to prevent bully squads or SWF to abuse it. Its still one of the strongest perks in the game that counters many addons, perks and even killer power by itself. Its too much for a single perk.
As for the OP, yeah, Vigil is currently busted. The current 66% reduction to all stats is too much for a single perk. They can do many things to tone it down like reduce to the old 30%, make it work only on Exhaustion (that what most people use the perk for) or make it work only for status effects with the exception of Exhaustion.
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Usually something nerfed in dbd is nerfed into oblivion for Molag Bol to enslave, never seeing the light of play again. Distortion, Vials, etc for survivors as examples. Killers never get nerfed. (kidding, kidding!! Everything gets nerfed, not one side or another.)
Removing the stacking portion is what was primarily complained about. And I agree! Vigil stacking with itself was braindead on BHVRs part. Removing it was a great move, but one that shouldn't have had to been made in the first place.
Now it's still being talked about because everyone knows 'talk about something enough, it'll get destroyed eventually.' It's fact. It's history. It's bhvr.
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Dbd is a game about numbers i wonder why accelerating all status effects is very strong. We have 90 second,80 second,45 second,40 second, 30 second. 20 second. And 12 second status as far as i can remember with various perks and addons on the killer side. And vigil applies to all of them cutting the time almost in half for each one. You literally cannot use hubris because you dont catch up fast enough as a m1 to get the reward from it.
Post edited by supersonic853 on1 -
It should be at the number it was supposed to be. 40%. It's 66% now.
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It's not 30% though, it's more than double that.
It is way too strong right now.
I don't agree with removing status effects from it completely, but the numbers should be reduced and it should not affect any killer's base power (ie. such as Freddy's snares)
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It definitely shouldn't affect powers, but perks that cause hindered like forced hesi should still be countered.
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I think exposed could be axed from the perk, but its real problem was the stacking. Since that nerf, it's not nearly as obnoxious to face as it used to be. I do wish it didn't hard counter niche perks though, it kind of reinforces the gen regression meta.
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Dark arogance is trash unless you play mayers or larry maybe, bambooyle and wesker anatomy perk are way better to deal with windows. Vigil still is strong perk and it deastroyes exposed perks especialy ghostface or any killer with hunder status not to mention no one (there are few exeptions) runs vigil without sprintburst.
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Do people complain about perks they don’t even know how it works? You guys know that 66% faster recovery is different than 66% LESS recovery. If you make the math it amounts to about 40% less time for effects to go away.
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its effects are too potentant to be a normal perk, its like when NOED wasn't a hex and justa normal perk with no way to disable it. if it was an Invocation or Boon, the numbers wouldn't need to be changed and it would be balanced
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I'm aware of how the effect works. I think that is too much for a completely passive perk that also benefits teammates and affects almost every status effect. The recovery bonus should be lowered to 40%.
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no it's fine skill issue
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Outdated wiki strikes again. Personally I don't really run it so off the top of my head I didn't have the exact number. I'd still say it's not game breaking but what do I know - I only play 50:50 and am looking for balance, not supremacy. So lets open it up to some direction. I say direction, not discussion since killers are designing survivor perks for them now. How useless would you all like this perk to be? How much would you like to hear the survivor saying to themselves 'Well that was a waste of a perk slot' after they see 1 second get knocked off their hinderance in the middle of chase?
After all, the killer rulebook for survivors clearly states if a perk actually helps a survivor escape, progress towards their objective, or god forbid extend a chase longer than a single second then it's unfair and killing the game.
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The thing with Tinkerer is that it just activates over the natural course of a match. The problem I have with most survivor perks is that they frequently have convoluted activation conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with their effect. Most killer perks just activate because of things that are going to happen anyway during a match.
Killer perks activate because you hook a survivor, hit a survivor, kick a generator, vault a window in chase, stand still and breathe for longer than .5 seconds, etc. These are all things you're going to be doing regardless of if you have a perk that demands it equipped.
Survivor perks activate because you open x number of chests, cleanse x number of totems, take x number of protection hits, are cool with your aura being shown to the killer, are wounded + in deep wound + it's a full moon, etc. The reason so many survivor perks are meta has as much to do with the fact that other perks are a pain in the ass to activate as it does their actual effect. That and if you aren't in a SWF coordinating your actions over Discord then most of the perks requiring team set up to either activate or provide value are pretty much a waste. Teamwork: Throw Down, Teamwork: Toughen Up, etc. - good luck with that in solo queue.
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The strongest part of this perk is when paired with Sprint Burst/Dramaturgy, which makes it braindead to play. Go and use this combo for 10 matches, and see just how easy the game becomes.
Countering status effects are just bonus effects, and they're very strong too. I don't think a single perk should be this strong.
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It literally just got nerfed so they couldn’t stack anymore which was MORE THAN FAIR as stacking was way too OP.
I swear some of you just want survivor to have nothing but garbage perks so you can cakewalk to 4Ks every match. You literally just got killer buffs to tunneling and you’re still calling for survivor nerfs.
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So it sounds like you don't like the exhaustion reduction and you don't like the status effect reduction even if they were isolated from each other. Since that covers everything it does, would you like it to do nothing but take up a perk slot and look pretty? How pointless of a perk would you like it to be?
Tell you what - we can do that if we also, at the exact same time, take a look at how oppressive certain status effects can be at their basekit levels and nerf those down as well. That work? No? We just cripple survivor perks around here? Ah yes, I forgot.
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66% faster recovery is way too much. 30% was literally fine as is. Or you can take the 30% for granted and make it 20% again like on its release where it also affected less status effects.
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I'm definitely not asking for it to be made useless - what I am asking for is a drop to 40% or so which would still be a very good perk and still stronger than the previous version (current is 66%, old version was 30%).
Based on effective durations of status effects with Vigil, this would effectively lower the duration reduction by about 11% (the current version is equivalent to about a 40% reduction in status effect duration, the proposed change would make this about 29%, which would still have a very noticeable impact on status effects).
Also - the wiki is on wiki.gg now. The old Fandom wiki is discontinued and no longer updated as of about a year ago
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