Pallets... yeah
So we've got a lot less pallets… and they are WAAAAAAY worse.
What a time to be a survivior
Comments
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how about how killers felt when they were all god pallets and chainable to shack, main building?
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”if I can’t loop the killer for 5 gens by pre dropping every pallet what am I supposed to do?”
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Be real tho. Those new pallets are actually 20/80 chance.
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Surprised? I'm not, because killer mains always get what they want even with one post, and when survivors create a post, it's always ignored unless it's a massive one.
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solo queue player are always sacrificed.
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Yes, I slugged whole team. I am becoming killer main now guys
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Quite the "Operation Health" am I right?
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They were never all god pallets nor were they all chainable to shack and main building. That was all just killer propaganda on YouTube played over footage of them 4King at 4 or 5 gens anyway.
Most pallets were trash that a killer could literally just walk around. Playing as killer, I only ever found the additional pallets mildly annoying, if I even noticed them at all. They certainly never stopped me from winning.
This patch is worse than just removing pallets. The jungle gyms seem worse and more rare, tiles overall are crap, there's frequently nothing to run to over most of the map that isn't basically just a rock to run around, etc.
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The crazy part is, if a survivor wins an 20/80, the loop can still be chained into another, cus they didn't reduce the # of pallets, they just made them all weak to the point where they're useless unless you win 80/20s
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This is Operation "Emergency ICU" for survivors.
This update if stays as is it can potentially kill the game for good.
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You mean they just made the weaker M1 killers more viable now? That's nice getting tired of playing only Xeno and Singularity.
-7 -
It's funny how people try to frame buffs to M1 killers as if they aren't buffs to all killers at the same time. The only killer who can flat out ignore pallets is nurse - that's it. So everyone but nurse got a buff with these tile downgrades.
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Maybe we should be working on changes that buff M1's while specifically not buffing the killers who don't need it then?
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Seriously. How BHVR has conducted the Quality of Life Initiative should be taught in game design classes as an example of what not to do.
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What's the 4K streak record again?
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I'd somewhat agree it could be whataboutism, but I'm pretty sure the point was that extremes like the gen rush record are the other side of the kill streak coin. Both prove that the game's formula can be broken to a degree that your opponent's agency in the outcome is minimal at best. If you want to make that argument for escape speeds, you have to also accept it for kill streaks.
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Answer the question.
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Wouldn't an apple to apple comparison be something like looking at the fastest 4k time (which is almost assuredly faster than the fastest escape time.
Or compare escape streaks to kill streaks (again massively favors killers)
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The record actually sits at 00:02:26:600 if you want to be technical, but why does it matter? Of course in a 4man SWF with full builds for it against a player of a much lower skill level you will achieve something like this. If the other team is better and has a much better build, why shouldn’t the match be a blowout?
You see the same in any of momo’s 1000+ game win streak games. The killer has a way better loadout and a much higher skill level, and everyone’s on the ground in a few minutes.
If you want to argue that even when the survivors are better and are bringing the best stuff they shouldn’t be able to reduce gen times that much, that is fair. But you’re acting like that world record match is representative of average DBD when it is most certainly is not.
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I wouldn't consider it apples to apples as much as apples to oranges with the caveat they're both fruit.
Escape streaks don't really compare to kill streaks as directly, as survivors share agency. At their potential they are generally stronger than the killer, but individually they require coordination to even break even. Both sides can absolutely have lose/lose scenarios, but as one survivor you often require one or more allies to fully succeed getting out of unwinnable scenarios. Since the game is outcome focused, this means that each individual survivor has less agency toward building something like an escape streak, meaning it will theoretically never reach the potential height of a pinnacle kill streak. That degree of consistency isn't possible, nor is it supposed to be. You can argue how high the record for a KS should be allowed to be, but it should always be higher than the top escape streak just based on how the game structure works. How much they should vary is up to interpretation, but one mind with 100% agency should always have more individual control over outcome than 1 of 4. Once you start introducing an SWF into that kind of accomplishment, you need to start cutting up rules about what does(n't) count, disqualifications, and other variables that muddy up your metric.
As for the differences between fastest kill times and fastest escape times… you'd be surprised. The kills are obviously based more on 4ks than just the first kill, but they still don't generally reach the world records for escapes. That said, those escapes involve SWFs with specific builds so they fall into that muddiness I mentioned earlier, and all results rely on self reporting and evidence requirements, but my point is more that they're not assuredly faster than escape records.
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Like 2000 something?
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A world record that required a lot of setup, tries, luck, a favorable map configuration, and a misplaying killer who leaves the whole team alone to do that doesn't have anything to do with how matches actually play out for the vast majority of players. Meanwhile, killer streamers face roll their way into 4K kill streaks on a daily basis.
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Ironic, since you immediately brought up world records when asked a simple question about if the update was good or not.
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Something that both kill streak and escape records have in common is that they shouldn't be possible in a healthy game. More specifically, they shouldn't be possible at the extremes they have reached, as it shows a serious lack of agency in the opposing side in those scenarios. The fact that both can exist at the extremes that they can only serves to dissolve the confidence of players in the integrity of the game, and lead them toward focusing on pre-emptive advantages rather than adaptive gameplay. Its why gen rushing counters tunneling, while tunneling counters gen rushing.
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😂
We thought these changes would help, but it just went out of the frying pan and into the fire for the survivor community.
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The changes are so killer-sided and you guys just can't defend it.
I only agree with macmillan and asylum nerfs, because sometimes the pallets rng was actually broken.
Then we got the pallet density nerf, with a big nerf to the renders which mostly make the pallets 80/20.
Then we have nerfed wicked because it created ONE TIME synergy with resurgence. You had to bring 2 perks and die in a SPECIFIC place to be able to use it. This was problematic… yeah, no.
Literally all we have is 5 sec more of endurance, which doesn't really change much. Killers now just hit off hook and catch up.I really don't like the fact that bhvr gave us hope for better gameplay and took it aways 3 months later.
I was so happy that I will be able not to run 2-3 anti tunnel perks (mostly DH, DS and Shoulder because teammates were tunneled a lot) and I could run some silly perks11 -
i doubt that…. if it is so bad why are you all still playing? try playing skyrim without the day 1 patch for 6 months and see if you keep playing every day, you would quit as its unplayable but here you all cry its bad but are not smart enouph to walk away,
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To be honest, the killstreak is a terrible example of strength. Most of these wins are just due to misaligned mmr.
If MomoSeventh had played against people his MMR he wouldn't have had a killstreak above 10-7 -
I don't put hard faith into the integrity of any records, as they embody the currently most desirable conditions. The main validity I think they have statistically relies on how far those extremes deviate from the expected results. Conceptually with balancing, you acknowledge that variables will always be in play, and that the more variables you introduce, the higher the likelihood of extreme variations. The more complex you make something, the higher the likelihood of imbalances both forming and evolving. That isn't to say it always does, but moreso that you have more spinning plates to balance simultaneously. Normalization hems in those extremes, which makes it a good candidate for maintaining balance.
Things like 4K winstreaks and <3 minute gate escapes essentially prove that the variables have essentially overtaken the balance. This happens in minor interactions to create things like lose/lose scenarios, making them unbalanced significantly for either side, but if variables have that significant of an impact on outcome in a game where any and all relevant feedback on a match revolves solely around said outcome, it can easily make players feel less in control of the results of their match.
Essentially, when things like the kill streak or the gate record happen, it often makes people feel like these extremes shouldn't exist, regardless of how perfect of a storm they required. They fail that person's smoke test and exceed the limit they're willing to accept as reasonably possible.
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What streak you mean?
If its blights momos 2k winstreak then dont forget its from time where blight had most busted addons (addon that made him break pallets with just rushing into them with one rush and slowing survivors around with hinder - compound 33, addon that let him get all 5 rushes when he just hit survivor with one rush - alchemyst ring or addons that tunned down his turn rate little but gave him 8 rushes and bs addons like that not to mention his odl speed addons I belive were giving him more speed than they do now, he had hug tech strongest hug tech any killer had in this game even weskers,demos,draculas were or are if they still exist joke compare to that what blight had, weaker loops where his power is super hard to use because survivor can run behind struckture back then would be just outplayed with his hug tech in 2 rushes and best thing survivor could do was just camp pallet and drop) so if mean this winstreak yeah its nothing crazy that second strongest killer in the game when he was in his prime/strongest form he ever been in the game could achive this.
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Funnyest thing is people still complain about these streaks to show how one role is busted. Well problem is these streaks are done …. with strongest characters,addons,items each side offers so no wonder killers streaks are high on blight,nurse and on survivor its 4man no wonder but can someone tell me where is that 500 wins streak on trapper or ghostface? I bet they dont even exist because chance of them existing are pretty small because all it takes is one good team to break them compare to teams that break these s-tier killers streaks and 4 man swf wins so calling one side busted because it has op things is qute lame. Some streaks are possible in every game but not to such numbers with normal things so I doubt there is duo win streak with 500+ escapes or dreadge winstreak with same nuber.
-6 -
A lot of loops that blocked LOS were changed so that they no longer do that… so nurse got a pretty sizable buff from this
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Agreed, comparing a team of SWF playing dozens of matches to get a really fast 5 gen escape record is not comparable to the killer win streaks. Both are problems for sure, but the latter should be compared against survivor 4 man escape streaks (hint: they aren't even close)
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Who said I play? I literally don't play the game after this update until changes. If not, there's other games I play and enjoy.
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So funny enough I was browsing Twitter checking dbd content and I saw Momoseventh tweeted he was doing another streak as Blight and he has reached 1500 win streak currently.
Greatest coincidence ever to your argument even as a "nerfed" blight he's still busted strong.
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Yep. Games totally outbalanced now and it was bad before for solo.
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Yall are getting less pallets? I just had three pallet loops around shack (with a pallet lol) on a Borgo variant. That was insane.
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OnePumpWillie's trapper streak went to 210 matches, not 500 but for a killer people claim is "unplayable" at high mmr it is a massive streak.
This is the match he lost, you can find more matches on his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjLUD1sW2M4&t=9s3 -
Only ONE pallet in the Asylum map main buulding is crazy. On the forest map, there are no more loops with that fallen tree, THOSE LOOPS ARE GONE FOR GOOD and replayed with small loops. The Asylum loops are so small and miserable now. This is just so bad…
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I played for 2 hours after the patch to see the changes.
After that I only opened the game at night for some killer games everyday.
My playtime will dramatically drop after the update and I simply won't touch survivior role unless I've got solid 4 man swf with a lot of experience.
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We didn't want this. We just wanted a revert. Not whatever strange change BHVR did
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This is only like the 57th time that BHVR has gone way overboard in making adjustments. They just have no ability to make minor adjustments or fine tuning. It’s always a massive sledgehammer to one side or the other. It really makes us wonder how these changes get play tested, if at all. So many times things get released that anyone who has even a little experience in the game immediately knows is busted AF. BHVR should just pick 20 random players to test any changes and they would do a far better job of deciding whether or not to push them live than any of the devs would.
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His trapper streak was mostly done with haste and endgame perks and I saw some games from it he mostly just downed last survivors all of them or some but they were like 3-4 alive when last gen was poped he just sluged them with haste from perks and instadown from noed still great play from him to be able to get 200 wins with second worst killer from the game and probably the killer that starts the match loosing because of setting his power.
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I dont know why some whiners here think killers wanted it all they wanted was from devs to remove 6 pallets they added on strong or alredy balanced maps like asylum,gasheaven etc. and not to destroy loops and reduce pallets on realms where it wasnt needed.
This is change no one asked for, other part of 9.3.0 patch was reduce some antitunnel buffs or buff unique hooks with something more than few blood points and bloodlust that isnt viable for most killers that was other part.
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