http://dbd.game/killswitch
Are the devs keeping matchmaking bad on purpose
Comments
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The non-functional matchmaking is by far the biggest problem in the game. I almost always have fun on both sides when I’m matched with other players of similar skill level. The problem is that so often that doesn’t happen.
Unfortunately I don’t know what can be done to fix the problem. A higher player population would help, but that is currently going in the wrong direction. More priority for accuracy over speed in the matchmaking would also help, but longer queue times could make the player count problem even worse.7 -
I think they're keeping it fast and that's mostly what matters. We'll see what they have in-store for the upcoming changes. At least being able to opt for a more accurate match and wait longer would be nice, but the criteria for what raises you in MMR is too simplistic as is for decent matching to occur anyway.
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I played for the first time in over a month with some friends a few days back. In one match we got a brand new killer who had 18 hours on Steam. Then within five matches we got a P100 TTV Ghoul who had over 6300 hours. This is not normal for a PVP game. I just do not understand why anyone thinks these massive gaps in experience and skill are acceptable. What is the point of MMR if it allows scenarios like this? Is there not some sort of middle ground solution to this?
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That is insane.
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me playing duo with my friend who is still new to the game: first match against a 10,000 hour nurse comp player.
completely made me realize how toast the matchmaking really is
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Yeah this kind of thing happens to me all the time. The matchmaking system might as well not exist at all because it’s literally random what skill level you’ll go up against in any given lobby.
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Very likely.
DBD matchmaking favors speed rather than accuracy. Largely because anytime they did focus on accuracy streamers with 1000s of hours had long queues.
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I will never forget a match where I faced a 3000 hour huntress as a 600 hour player at the time. The only teammate who's hours I could see had 50 but the other two were a Bill with a single perk and a Nea urban evading in basement.
No reasonable system would put that match together, even via backfilling.
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Once again, nobody even mentions the fact that it's ESCAPE-based matchmaking, and not skill-based.
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Short answer, yes. For many reasons, in my opinion.
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yeah this is why i dodge almost every lobby until i find survs who look decent. cz aint no way im playing against a 5 perk ghoul with TomatoTurtle546 and IronWolf58 😅
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I don't think it's on purpose. I have so many thoughts on this that I'll do what I always do and write a long post here to explain why I think matchmaking in this game is so incredibly awful in case anyone's interested.
I think there's three factors that completely obliterate any semblance of accurate matchmaking. And this isn't even considering how abandons work, I'm not even gonna get into that but I have a feeling that it's a complete mess in terms of MMR, when it really doesn't have to be… Anyway, take a look at these three points.
- First point, MMR is based on individual escapes, not team escapes. So it actually rewards selfish play (escaping alone) over skilled play (making sure most of the team escapes). This makes zero sense, because in literally every single team based game ever made, whether a player gains or loses MMR is purely based on whether their team won or lost, as it should be. There's plenty of ways to play selfish and get a good personal result in any team game. But what makes a skilled player is how many matches their entire team wins, at least in the long run. If many players escape in your matches on average, then you're probably a good player. If only you escape very often on average, then you may or may not be a good player, but you're very likely a selfish player. Sure, a good player will escape more often than a bad player, and good players will have high MMR on average, but you get my point, right? These two things are not the same, but the matchmaker acts like they are, or at least has zero way to discern between a good or a selfish player. And believe me, if you're selfish enough, you can get very high MMR while still being an absolutely terrible teammate and a huge detriment to the survivor team as a whole. This means that it's a coin flip whether a teammate you have is high MMR because they're selfish, or because they're actually good. It's a huge mistake to have the MMR be individual instead of team based.
- Second point, the pregame lobby ruins both matchmaking quality and makes it take longer to get into a match. Why is it even here? All it does it let people lobby dodge, then the open slot has to be backfilled by the matchmaker. And it's been confirmed that the matchmaker prioritizes speed over accuracy when it comes to backfilled players. Why does it have to fill the empty slots fast? Well if people leave lobbies, then more players might leave, and then the matchmaking would be slow and inaccurate, right? Except this wouldn't even be a problem in the first place if pregame lobbies weren't a thing! The pregame lobby system actively sabotages both matchmaking speed and matchmaking quality because as people naturally leave lobbies and new players are backfilled in, the MMR/matchmaking becomes less and less accurate, all in the name of speed, because we can't have players both wait a long time to get into a lobby and a long time to get into a match, right? But the lobby alone is a huge part of the reason why games take a long time to start and are inaccurate! It is completely redundant, slows down and ruins matchmaking, and should have been removed the moment MMR was introduced for faster, more accurate matches.
- Third, the matchmaker tries to compensate for the time wasted in lobbies by prioritizing speed over accuracy. It makes sense right? If you're gonna be waiting 3 minutes in a lobby for people to join and leave, you definitely don't want to wait for 3 minutes in matchmaking too, right? Except this priority of speed over accuracy leads to even worse matchmaking. On top of that, the MMR ranges are extremely wide, so the "top mmr" range actually consists of a huge section of players, and it gets wider the longer you're searching for a match. That's why it's even possible for relatively average players to be matched with several thousand hour sweaty players. But get this, what if you start searching and get into a lobby instantly, surely it's because the matchmaker found a perfect lobby for you and you're about to have a great match, right? No. It is most likely still an inaccurate lobby with huge MMR disparity between the players because you are being used to backfill into a dodged lobby! So either you wait for a long time to get an inaccurate lobby, or you wait 5 seconds to get backfilled into an inaccurate lobby. Ridiculous! And all of this could have been avoided if they just removed pregame lobbies and instead just started the match once 5 players had been found and clicked on "accept match" or something, no lobby needed.
I mean seriously, why even have a matchmaking system if the lobby just ruins all of it? And if you're looking for the most accurate representation of player skill in a team based game, why is it not based on team escape rate rather than individual escape rate? It's such low hanging fruit and it's so obvious but no one cares to look at it.
BHVR can do absolutely anything they want with MMR, the existence of the lobby and the fact that it's based on individual escapes instead of team based means matchmaking is doomed to be inaccurate. If they don't address these two factors first, nothing else they do matters. And I'm not sure if they realize this, which makes me sad.
Hey, at least there's MMR changes on the roadmap. Maybe some of this will be touched upon but honestly I have zero hope for this issue anymore.
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Either its on purpose or they just cant do better than bad. For starters, the change from emblem-system to mmr-system was already one of the worst changes theyve ever done (and oc they never even thought of scrapping it though everybodys feedback was crystal clear). They made literally everything worse and there is absolutely no reasoning within this actual system. and their "changes" to the system never did anything at all. The problems are still the same as on day one. So why would anyone even have the tiniest bit of hope that they will do something good with their upcoming "changes".
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Devs priority is Queue times so they intentionally made the matchmaking loose to make queue times fast. I'm assuming if devs ever decide to make it stricter queue times will be 15-30mins long
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Even their MMR system is spaghetti-coded. It's been almost a year since they confirmed an overhaul and we still have zero info about it.
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The problem with mmr is.
If you make it strict, you will only get matched with veterans even with 500 hours.
The casuals get a break but that wont last long.
If you make it nonexistant its all over the place, noobs with vets or against one another.
I like'd the old system, the more you play, the harder your matches get. But for someone who rarely plays, its perfect.
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Depends on yours and other players hours and mostly mmr because if you play as swf it macthes by the highest ones I believe just like it did in ranks that were before mmr (if you were red rank you went against red or purlpe rank even the fact you played with friend that was ash), so in short these killers can be fine for you (or slightly above you) but your friend having 18 hours and you few thousands means this can happen.
I have few thousands hours and went against 13k hours dracula p100 main ttv too once but even the bad killers with less experience and hours can be obtained as opponent see the thing is they try to keep matchmaking fast because if you went only in your mmr barcket you would have way longer queue times like you have in 2v8 as killer which would be more seen as problem then facing someone who is out of your legue sometimes and back in the day people wanted faster queue times.
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Probably so people would not try to get around it somehow (we know DBD has many flaws so some stramers would try to break it or more likely bypass it so they would face like babyes for content) but in reality cheaters already must know it because they can just match against anyone they want.
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I think it already happened like 5 years ago when the queue times were like 5-10 minutes and sometimes even longer people would get irritated by it so they fix it and now they beg for better quality which is fair but true question is:
Can we get that quality without getting long queue times that will go for ages?
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The MMR system needs a complete rework. Right now it is based purely on escape & kills. Which means good survivors that die in endgame, cause they actually play the game, they get put in lower MMR and get to (sort of) bully lower MMR killers… You can apply this to both sides rly… MMR might as well just be deleted at this point, cause it doesn't work. Random lobbies like in the old days would cause much less frustration than what we have now.
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The devs don't care; they don't even ban the cheaters. For over a month, I still get the same cheating killer bot that advertises their hacks with a Discord link every single session I play this game. If someone can hack continuously for over a month, how often am I regularly playing against subtle cheaters, for that matter? It gets fairly obvious when the survivors move faster than I do when out of line of sight, and the killers wallhacking with no aura perks equipped.
I sincerely doubt they care at all about the quality of matches and focus entirely on the kill and escape rates, meeting their desired percentages. The matches I get placed into are nearly all one-sided wastes of time, with very few able to swing in either direction.1 -
Hens had some good points in his video, talking about what to do for the matchmaking. And something about having a toggle option that switches matchmaking priority for either fast (with the loose MMR we have today) or a tighter MMR, but with the downside of longer queue time.
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There could be two modes one ranked which would be just mmr that is super fair and downside would be long queue times and sucond like fast game which will be something like now.
I still think more people will on both sides go for faster games due to limited time (some people have just few hours to play and they cant spend 10+ minutes into lobby) and due to more higher chance for win because lets be clear getting people on same level meand harder games than having good chance that your opponent wont be so good plus I believe more sweats still sweat because they want to win and not have it harder so they would go more for fast game than ranked.0 -
Define bad. A while back they had a series of matchmaking tests and one of the things I believe they ended up doing was lowering the soft cap essentially making the matchmaking "worse" skill wise but making matchmaking faster and "less sweaty" (for people who were above the soft cap, essentially meaning they just got easier opponent on average)
Pretty much anything the devs do to give us "better matchmaking" will in all likelyhood just monkey paw us in someway. Even if every match perfectly matched skill level of you to everyone else in the match I think most people would get burnt out of DBD extremely quickly if every single match was like that. Maybe noobs would get stomped less but the experience of veteran players would certainly degrade very quickly as high end matches devolved to a complete meta fest where everyone only used the strongest perks items, killers, and addons
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I'm gonna say no it's either one or the other
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But we've seen what happens when we split the modes cause of chaos shuffle and 2v8 the queue time increases pretty badly imagine if we had 3 separate game modes (Casual, Ranked, and chaos shuffle or 2v8) queue times gonna be in the hour wait times
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Thats another problem with more modes but I still think most would play "casual" game modes because even the majority of sweats just want to win and facing opponent that is very chalanging and hard to deal with means you will have higher chance to loose than win which they dont like.
Even now we can see that 2v8 pulls a lot of players from casual 1v4 mode so having more isnt that ideal but I would be glad if there would be more modes like Chaos shuffle or lights out coming like once a month so its not just the same thing over and over. Two modes is bearable but 3 or 4 could be a problem.
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The problem with MMR is you can reach the top way to easy and to decay is hard as hell.
My example:
You start with 500 points.
You get a lucky first game and Kill 3 Survivors because they had no clue what to do.
Your MMR rises to 800.
Next game you get a sandbagger which trolls his whole team and you get a 4k.
Your MMR rises to 1200. Welcome over the magical point of 1000. You are high MMR now and can play from 1000 MMR to 10000.
But the other way around it seems way harder. getting 2 Kills mean yeah no MMR loss.
Getting only 1 Kill and you get a small MMR loss.
It kinda feels like this to be honest.
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