http://dbd.game/killswitch
The First - Killer Power Feedback
Comments
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Unknown is crying in a corner he wishes he had this much time and recovery to fire these shots Vecna needs more punishment on misses
-4 -
I'm going to correct you when Worldbreaker activates it lasts for 60 seconds if a Survivor doesn't speed it up with a clock even if a survivor does there's 15 seconds of unspeed upable time Vecna can still use. Which is the red part of the clock.
Using clocks is necessary to counter his power but it does seem pointless too do so since he can easily reactivate world breaker so fast since he just needs 2 non lethal vine attacks
2 -
I don't think he's weak at the minimum he's above average
2 -
He's slow because your supposed to be using your power not go for m1s he's a prediction killer when your in highwall loops your supposed to be using your game sense and knowledge on where you think the Survivor is and is going so you unleash a Vine attack where you think they will be.
4 -
That part was mostly a general nod to the thread. I think he is a potential contender for top 10 once we see what he is capable of in more practiced hands. I don't think he will be popular though. I agree that his vine attack feels awful to miss but it almost needs to because of how quickly you can shoot again and ignoring pallets, windows, and walls.
If I am wrong about the undergate attack being a guaranteed hit against a survivor you start it directly under (I mean directly centered under and without the survivor having haste) then it should become guaranteed. It seems to be mostly a traversal power though so I don't think it should be an incredibly strong attack especially given his vine attack.
-1 -
I do appreciate the clarification, but it does reinforce my point that it is so incredibly unclear how the built-in mori works.
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The power is very unique and similiar to my concept from few years ago. I think the M2 vine attack is well balanced and will need some time to get used to as well as going against, it's very precision shot so I don't think it should be nerfed.
On the other hand the underground attack feels useless, mobility is fine but it as attack can't truly hit anyone neither give you instant worldbreaker. I think it needs at least shorter cooldown when emerging from the ground, so it still suits mobility with purpose of interupting rather than free hits or free worldbreaker.
Vecna's perks are actually pretty interesting and might see some use unlike perks from last 4 dlcs.
-4 -
His chase power is extremely powerful.
After some time and practice this killer will be dominating lobbies.
I might've found my next p100 main!
2 -
The vines attack feels perfect. Not impossible to hit, but decently easy to predict and dodge, I think you nailed it on the vines. The upside down feels really smooth, but coming out from undergate feels a bit clunky due to the long time coming out, but that’s understandable seeing it’s to give survivors time to dodge. In my opinion, to make it feel better, coming out of it should be faster, but radius be reduced to compensate. Pretty balanced, fun killer if you ask me. Total noob stomper, but good survivors should give The First a hard time.
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Agreed it's pretty unclear
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I honestly think the new killer is too strong. There is 0 punishment for missing your m2. Killers like pyramid head have a really lengthy animation for both missing and hitting your m2, while The First doesn't have that at all. Even Nurse has her fatigue, while the first has 0 cooldowns on his m2. Krasue got a lot of critisiscm for being able to m1 right after m2, but the first can just spawn the m2 now.
I also think that it's way too easy for him to enter worldbreaker mode and I think the fact that he damages everyone in worldbreaker mode instead of just the people he "infected" also feels too strong to me. He's basically a powercrept Krasue. Krasue still has to infect everyone individually and it's easy to cleanse, while Vecna only has to hit one person 2 times for the entire team to be vulnerable and you can't cleanse it since the clock moves slowly once there's a quarter left. Also teammates can be punished for one teammate playing badly.
His abilities also feel quite easy to hit. It's similair to nurse where survivors can't really do anything. The only way to escape is if the killer misses, it's quite hard for survivors to dodge. I genuinely don't understand why we're amking another Nurse.
Edit: I want to add that to me The FIrst seems like a powercrept Nurse or a Nurse 2. Like The First can basically ignore most pallets and windows like Nurse, has an attack that goes through walls and his main pwoer comes from the killer player being able to predict survivor movements like Nurse. Once people get good with him i imagine he'll on the level off Nurse if not stronger due to his movement ability.
Post edited by SadakoSlay on-8 -
From my testing, his underground attack doesn't really work in chase, but you can get a hit pretty often when you get to someone on gen, they can't really run directly away from you most of the times.
I consider both of his attacks to be fine, I wouldn't do extended changes without better testing.
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Honestly, I feel like if the first is just straight up nerfed before people learn counterplay we might end up with another killer basically nobody plays. He seems strong at the moment, but not nurse or blight tier(Good. Please do nerf those.), and as good as he is on 1v1s, his 1v4 game might not be all that when people actually learn how to play against him.
It's a new killer with a very different kind of gameplay than most others, i think people tend to forget that learning how it all works takes time and how balanced he currently feels is not at all reflective of how he'll feel once most people are used to him.2 -
Honestly, I have no idea how the devs are going to sort through this feedback. Most of the comments are basically split 50/50 on upvotes and downvotes.
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That isn't a good strategy, because survivors get an audio cue when the killer has an M2 charged, which means they can pick a random direction to offset to. And there is a visual warning of where the M2 will show up, which means that if it's not perfectly placed (and it won't be because the survivor purposely offset themselves), then the survivor can easily dodge the M2 on reaction.
This isn't like Nurse, that gets to make a prediction blink, then still has a 2nd blink if she didn't guess perfectly AND a long extended lunge if she didn't guess perfectly. The First just gets a small circle on the ground, and that's it.
The only time the M2 isn't super easy to dodge is when the survivor is animation locked, or is in a chokepoint (e.g. shack doorway). But if the survivor is in an large open loop, and can easily dodge in a bunch of different directions, then The First really shouldn't expect M2 hits when there isn't line of sight.
-2 -
From my perspective as a creator and as a player who actively plays both Survivor and Killer, The First feels well balanced, especially when considering the available add-ons and how they interact with his power.
This is clearly a Killer that requires practice and matchup experience to fully understand the timing of his attacks and consistently land hits. Because of that learning curve, I do not agree with the argument that he is weak. His power rewards skill, prediction, and good positioning rather than instant value.
The ability to enter The Upside Down and traverse the map quickly — including passing through pallets — gives The First strong map mobility and chase potential, adding meaningful pressure when used correctly.
I was also genuinely impressed by the level of care and creativity put into every aspect of facing this Killer. The clocks, the music, and the strong red-tinted visual identity create a very immersive and memorable experience. This DLC stands out as one of the most polished and well-crafted releases in recent memory.
It is clear that the additional development time — even if it slightly delayed the overall game schedule — was used very effectively. Overall, The First feels fun to play as and against, and in my opinion, his current design represents a great balance between power, counterplay, and overall enjoyment.
-2 -
I think his power is overall fine. The only problem I have with it is the under attack. not because it’s weak but because you lose so much distance when you use it like I genuinely feel like I have to run the roller skate add-on just so that I don’t have to travel all the way to Canada just to start chase again.
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I disagree - I think Upgate Attack is balanced as it is.
It's a difficult to hit attack, but not 99.99% dodgeable by any means. I respectfully think you need to get better with your mindgames and aiming if you're missing that often - and remember you can move while attacking.
It barely has enough time to dodge as Survivor when you're running in a straight line as it is when Worldbreaker isn't activated - in fact it is straight up impossible to dodge when Worldbreaker is activated and his powers become enhanced - and First will be MISERABLE to play against if it was impossible to escape the radius and it was a guaranteed hit every time First pops up underneath a Survivor.
The problem with this Killer is that we can't buff anything because this Killer would be absolutely miserable - as long as someone with a brain is behind the wheel and knows how to play point and click adventure games, they are guaranteed to make a hit because this Killer ignores walls, obstacles, and pallets in a way very much like Nurse.
This Killer can easily win with clever mindgames and good aiming, but if it turns into a guaranteed undodgeable hit killer then we'll have another Krasue situation on our hands.
You need to be tricky with it, bait out a double back. If you can get someone to double back AND you predict which direction they're going in, it's almost guaranteed.
I think it should be slow. It's difficult to land, but when you land it it guarantees Worldbreaker activation no matter how many Worldbreaker tokens the Survivors have. And it's a massive radius that can strike many Survivors at once. I think that's pretty fair.
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If the attack slowdown was terribly faster, it could make him one of the strongest zoners in the game He can catch Survivors off guard from almost anywhere. Upside Down traversal is incredibly fast, very stealthy, has infinite duration, and it can be difficult to hear or see him approaching so often he can sneak upon Survivors before they even realize he's near. Then, he can follow up taking point-and-click-adventure pot shots on top of them pretty much immediately.
I wouldn't mind a very small buff to the slowdown though, considering he's going to have a small interaction lockout added once he hits live servers and honestly I think it's fine as it is now.
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For the undergate attack, I am of the opinion that reducing the area of effect, but making the whole animation faster would make it less oppressive in specific maps or rooms, while keeping the overall strength level of the attack. The current version, could work in some way as an addon, but in general it's just too slow and inconsistent in most situations, whilst just being unavoidable in some specific maps or rooms.
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I find this killer very fun to play as and against. But I do have some concerns:
The vine attack needs to have some kind of cooldown. Missing should be punished and the killer shouldn't feel rewarded for spamming the ability repeatedly.
I do worry that the undergate ability where Vecna goes to the upside down may unfairly impact players from an accessibility standpoint. So if there isn't already a visual terror radius or lullaby for that ability, I really think there should be.
I do wish there were a way to remove the worldbreaker tokens. It doesn't feel great that once you have them you have them the rest of the match… unless I just don't understand how to get rid of them.-2 -
I think that somewhat Mutual understanding is there Vecna is a very unique killer and feels like you have to create a whole new play style playing against him like the nurse with how unique it is. I get that some people don't like that but i do it makes playing DBD feel new instead of the same thing over and over again but I think most people hate going against the nurse mostly because of how strong she is not her uniqueness. I'm scared that is going to happen to Vecna because he feels really strong in PTB. So I'm guessing the BHVR is going to try and nerf his power. But I really don't want that to happen I think it will really take away from his fun factor playing him. So here's my proposition to make him weaker without taking away from his power (REMOVE HIS M1) Now calm down everybody here me out. When playing Vecna in the PTB you rarely ever use your M1 because your power basically has No cooldown so it's like why not just use your power so it wouldn't really take away from his power. yet it would make so much more counter play for the Survivor players because they would be able to get close to him without running the risk of getting boringly M1 by him. This would also very much add to his uniqueness as a killer being the only killer that can't M1 this would create a whole new playstyle developed against just for him. Creating a fun and different type of match once in a while. not to mention this would kind of fit his personality being a badass and not even needing to hit anybody to win.
In conclusion
1.This would creates a new unique killer since nurse released almost 10 years ago
2.keep his power identity
3.Makes him weaker without taking from his fun factor with boring nerfs to his power
4.Adds more counter play for Survivors so makes it more fun for them
5.Would add skill expression because if you suck at using the power you get cooked
And for anybody wondering about my experience on the game
I have exactly 738 hours between console and pc and I am about a 80% killer player and a 20% Survivor player.
At the time of writing this
-7 -
I want to see how his power shakes out after testing but he definitely should not be 4.4
-4 -
I don't foresee many controller players sticking with this killer.
7 -
Vine attack cooldown is too low
1 -
looking real strong, but also possibly fun to loop. I'm....optimistic.
5 -
It's very very hard to land consistently vs good survs was testing a lot with a friend. You need to make it really hard for him to center himself properly by changing up movement even being slightly off center means survs can w key to the edge safely.
-2 -
I definitely agree its hard to land consistently but hard to say how much the PTB servers are to blame for that. My hope is they don't change him at all PTB to live and then some minor adjustments a few weeks later after we start seeing him in real matches. The undergate attack is certainly an area I would expect to see some tweaks to.
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I'm a killer main
The vine power is fine where it is. I wish the M1 cooldown was shorter after aiming. I've had just as much good games as bad. Against experienced survivors (especially ones with flashlights), its harder to land the vine hits. Against weaker survivors… of course they cant counter him as easily. And the hitbox for groundbreaker is almost usless. Landing a hit with that is just a little bonus. I use it for only traversing the map really. Also, in the amount of time it takes for him to emerge from the upside down, its ample time for you to get blinded. Pretty annoying. Idk you guys philosophy for what ranks you want him to be able to perform well within… but he's ok as is imo.
When running perks that dont slow gens (Its boring using the same sweaty gen builds in the high ranks), I've been tempted to slug survivors tbh. Without slugging, Vecnas map pressure is a simple joke. The cooldown for groundbreaker is too long as is but makes up for that with his chase play. Even with that , gens pop quickly against good survivors. Like I said… idk what ranks you intend on Vecna finding good use in. But he's mid tier at best which is okay.
Only changes I'd ask for is for a smaller hitbox on groundbreaker in exchange for a shorter cooldown period. And let us rotate Vecna while emerging from the upside down or just make that whole animation shorter (yes I've be recently terrorized by flashlights in 2 games everytime I've emerged from the upside down xD)
As a killer main, Vecna is a 7/10 👍
-1 -
Thanks for the feedback, y'all! As others have noted in this thread, it'll take some getting used to to play as and against The First, so we'll be closely watching how discussion evolves over the next few days.
I'd love to know if anyone here finds their initial impressions changing as they spend more time playing him!
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Hey there.
I've played around 15 matches as The First and 7 matches against him. Here is my detailed expertise.
Vecna indeed has great lethality and snowball potential, putting him in A tier. However, this killer has the highest skill floor I've ever seen, next to Huntress.
His Vine Attacks have very small AoE and require borderline perfect precision.
Experienced survivors can very easily dodge/juke them.
The only way to really hit those is to make thoughtful prediction shots mixed with faking M2 to shorten distance and hit again in the most unpredictable moment.
The killer can also make bait shots to keep survivors confused before ultimately using the M2 (optionally).
What I'd change is to make the Vine Attacks AoE around ~25% bigger.
Upside Down is amazing for map traversal. However, Undergate is ridiculously easy to dodge, and even with a prediction shot the AoE is too small.
I'd recommend increasing it by +20% basekit and eventually make an addon to make it +5% bigger as well. It shouldn't be less or more than that.
Grandfather Clocks:
There is not much I'd change beyond making it a straight 30 seconds, and additionally any attacks The First deals would apply -7% Hindered for 5 seconds.
All survivors suffer from Exhausted and Blindness status effects for 20 seconds when Worldbreaker is active.
The counter would be using 1 of the clocks, making the Worldbreaker shorter by -40%.
Only 1 survivor can use a clock at a time.
His perks:
Turn Back The Clock: Make it lose -15% of the entire gen progress with red lightning bolts around the gen. If survivors interact with the generator within 30 seconds, they suffer from Hindered and Blindness for 10 seconds (7%).
Most importantly, make it usable on already regressing generators.
The reason is that it's a hook-rewarding perk, and not being able to use it on already regressing generators is way too punishable for the killer.
It really limits you a lot. It could have really good synergy with perks like Pop/Pain Res.
The rest of the perks are pretty decent. I wouldn't change much.
-5 -
That's just straight-up ignorance. You can't mindlessly spam it expecting to land a hit.
Not only is he a 4.4 m/s killer, which is extremely punishing since most survivors will straight-up outrun you, but if they pre-run it's going to be very, very punishing to keep the chase going.
Using his M2 already makes you lose distance and slows you down to around 4.0 m/s.
It requires borderline perfect precision - it's super easy to dodge.
From my survivor experience as well, I could dodge ~90% of M2 attacks to the point that killers decided to just stop trying for the special hit and go for M1 instead.
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However you can use the audio cue against them I've had plenty of times where I use the audio que to bait and zone them and get a m1 hit or to make them move towards me and not use pallets or vaults cause they know that's a guaranteed hit if they do use them.
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Vecna currently has Anti camp power delay if you use vine attack and under gate attack it comes out way slower however this can be used against survivors.
If you see a survivor bombrushing the hook or if the survivor on hook is about to run out of time you can place a Vine attack 5 seconds beforehand as a timebomb under the hooked survivor to double tap the saving survivor with an M1 his camping potential is very strong.
-1 -
The First should not be 4.4 m/s !!!!
-10 -
The spammy aspect of the vine attack is quite obnoxious from the survivor pov, I think making it slightly longer while shortening the undergate attack speed as compensation will bring him to the sweet spot
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outside of bugs and qol stuff i would ship him as is. This is def a character that ppl will need to get used to on both sides before i would give serious balance feedback. Only thing i would be worried about is if someone finds a way to make landing undergate consistent then it will have to be changed imo but it seems very avoidable when in the open as is
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I've played as both the killer and survivor.
The vine attack is good where it's at. Survivors have enough time to hear the noise, and react accordingly.
His traverse ability on the other hand is way too slow coming out of it. Even when I've literally been under a player, they still have too much time to escape before I emerge. It needs to be made faster.
1 -
And none of that really applies to the scenario I was giving, which was "the survivor is in an large open loop".
Yes, there are parts of the map where the killer can do creative zoning or whatever, But there are also parts of the map where the killer is really just stuck looping the same objects over and over. And in these large open loops, it's super risky to try for M2 hits, because if the killer misses, it just means they'll be stuck looping those objects for even longer.
-4 -
- The First's power spam is ok when it is applying Worldbreaker tokens, however when Worldbreaker event is active, it should have a little bit longer of a cool down since it deals damage. There should not be a scenario where I can hit with a basic attack and immediately follow up with a Vine Attack that can hit before the survivor exits my Vine range. It's AoE and speed that it attacks is fine as survivors get a very audible warning of the attack and if a survivor is paying attention, it's a good back and forth of who is patient, who is paying attention to juke the attack etc. I also believe that the longer the Vine Attack is channeled (for zoning purposes) The First should slow down his movement speed a little more. Again I should not be able to hold my power and catch up to a survivor while they're zig-zagging around trying to avoid it.
- The movement traversal (Upside Down) is also fine, maybe a slightly shorter cool down, but with all the people complaining it's too easy to dodge, you're missing the point, if you damage with it, that means the survivor goofed. Having it be able to do damage is a small bonus and not intended to always be a damage instance
- One thing I'm still confused about is I noticed that sometimes the survivor portrait will have a clock hand rotate clockwise and at first I thought this meant a survivor was interacting with a Grandfather Clock, but then I saw it on a survivor I was chasing and I'm not sure exactly what it means since survivors apparently can NOT remove Worldbreaker tokens.
- All in all day one of The First is pretty balanced in my opinion and fair. He's not hard to understand and he has a high skill ceiling for skill shots. Both spectrums of killers can use him to zone out survivors or shoot them on the other side of killer shack.
- I'm sure his code name is tied to the show but come on, can we workshop a better one?
-2 -
This is like a completely new kind of Nurse, requiring a playstyle that is entirely different from any previous Aim Killer, which makes it very enjoyable. However, when controlled by a highly skilled player capable of advanced prediction and precise leading shots, survivors have no way to counter it. That said, the fun of controlling this killer should not be lost, so careful adjustments are necessary. Any changes should be made while observing over the long term whether more players become proficient with this killer or survivors adapt. Truly, this killer is a Nurse.
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it should be flipped around, tbh.
he should move faster in the world breaker and slower without, then it rewards better interactions and creates more tension.
i ######### myself whenever michael goes level 3 bruh
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This killer is disgustingly broken and anyone who tells you otherwise simply hasn't played him enough, sucks, or is hard coping. Imagine playing nurse but your 110, you can down peopel from 30 metres away AND you have an insane map mobility tool with undetectability. Oh and also you can spam your attack like theres no tomorrow and the attack is nearly undodgable if aimed well. As of now, this killer will basically vaporise any survivors who are within his attack range. You see them close and they are basically dead already.
He needs a way longer cooldown between shots at least when worldbreaker is active, a way smaller hitbox so its actuall reactable and dodgeable and a massive range nerf because the range is ridicously and makes 3gens impossible to do.
-7 -
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In my experience with Vecna, he is at the ideal point; it’s not too easy nor too difficult to use his powers effectively. Nerfing or buffing him could create imbalance for the killer, making him either too strong or too weak. For the powers he offers, he is ideal. In my experience playing against him, it was quite difficult in the first matches, but after understanding his powers, I was able to have good chases with him, escape, or even have fun in several of them. In my opinion, the killer is perfect and shouldn’t be buffed or nerfed, otherwise, he would become unbalanced. ...
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@ThatRyanB I feel like Vecna is in a nearly perfect spot and there is very little to change: The cooldown for his power during Worldbreaker event feels a bit too short and could be increased to one or two more seconds, so dodging a hit feels more rewarding while hitting feels more skillful and missing a bit more punishing. Outside of Worldbreaker mode, the cooldown feels fine since you cannot damage survivors and need to hit them twice. His Underground attack has a very long cooldown and should be two or four seconds shorter. The AOE range should also be a bit bigger since currently it is so easy to dodge. It's also fair for him being 110% since he can hit you from far away and from different elevations. Addon-wise, he feels overall fine but the one that let's him break pallets and kick gens nearby a underground attack, is too good for a brown addon. It should be at least blue. The clock counterplay is also fine - thus unsure if four clocks are enough considering the fact you can shorten his power but never stop it and depending on the map, going for clocks can be too painful. Then, his chase music is way too loud and feel rather annoying over time due to the loudness. Another issue I have is that the placing sound sounds very similar too Krasue's puking which is not nice in terms of quality (it has a different pitch but it's the same one).
Overall, a perfect killer on ptb that needs little tweaks to feel good for both sides. After release he probably needs some other tweak but if you change very little or even nothing from ptb to release, he will be healthy on release and not cause the same issues like Ghoul and Krasue did. Very happy that it seems like postponing the chapter was a good move!
Lastly, there are two things that happen again and cannot be ignored anymore:
- The built-in anti-camp-feature is very good and fair to not make him good at camping. However, it's still sad that other killers like Bubba, Dracula, or Pyramidhead still missing this build-in feature. On the other hand, it sucks that this feature is active until the Dying animation on hook ends. If you hook the survivor for the third time or dies on second hook, the build-in anti-camp-feature should not trigger. Artist and Dredge have the same issue that they get punished for killing a survivor.
- When Vecna is carring a survivor during World breaker, the timer should stop - unless a survivor is on Grandfather's clock if it's not in the last part - because it feels punishing that you lose time for hooking survivors. This issue encourage killers to slug more, which is an issue. Dredge during Nightfall has the same issue. Unknown also has a similar issue by giving survivors a free "get rid of weakened status effect because I cannot use my M2". You solved the issue with Oni by giving him more blood Orbs for hooking. I wish these killers would get a similar reward/treatment for hooking and not slugging.
-2 -
Overall, the killer has a really high skill ceiling and can be pretty tough to play well. You definitely get punished for mistakes, but when you play them right it feels very rewarding. I’d say about 90% of the kit feels good as-is; the add-ons might need another look, but the core design is solid.
The clocks could be a bit more interesting to interact with, as they feel a little bland at the moment. His power is extremely strong when used well, especially on bad ping, though it can also feel rough when things aren’t going your way. I think a slightly longer cooldown on his ability would help give survivors more chances to gain distance, since it’s currently very easy for him to stay right on top of them and still get the down.
On the plus side, the gameplay feels mostly bug-free, which is great. There’s also some room to shift power around in the kit to encourage using the upside-down travel more.
-1 -
Hello ! I have played a bunch both as The First and against him, as well as watching many creators play him + gathering opinions from the community.
And i think his kit is very solid, but there is one change that is almost needed- Swapping the effects of His usual M2 and giving it the Iridescent Chess Piece addon effect
Allowing him to Double Cast in base, while the new Iridescent addon is a single cast with a larger hitbox
This would give the Killer massively higher level of skill expression, while making him more fun to play and learn, while also making it easier for survivors to dodge the vine attack.
By default the single cast Vine attack is honestly far too easy to use (saying this as a killer main), however it would work great as an Iridescent Addon, similiar to Huntress' Iridescent Hatchet and such addons
-4 -
Please give a slightly longer cooldown on missed attacks. It’s too strong to have such a low cooldown but vecna is too dependant on it.
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VINE ATTACK COOLDOWN
He NEEDS a cooldown for his vine attack. Being able to spam the vine attacks at will is not fair game. Seems like an unfair advantage for The First when you're a survivor.
Also I noticed in the map Gideon meat plan/The game, when you're on the second floor and are in the upper area of the stair case where you can vault over the game and down to the lower floor (Pig Vat area). The First can use his vine attack in the circular structure. This doesn't make sense since it spawns out of thin air and not the ground. I experienced this when I vaulted the gate and the vine attack got me in the circle structure as I was falling through it.
THE MIND FLAYER
Is there any way that you could add the mind flayer in the sky? Similar to Draculas castle floating in the background. This would be a nice little touch to the open field maps.
-3
