Vecna takes zero skill and is absolutely unfun to versus
What’s the point of the clocks if he gets the red world instantly after 2 hits with his power? What’s the point of having stacks if they never could go away? Why is he able to just spam his power repeatedly? That’s no excuse because he’s 4.4 I rather face him when he’s 4.6 but no power spam. Make it so if he’s spamming his power he loses the red world faster.
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He's literally just a modern Nurse.
Player uses power on CD and tries to guess? Loopable and somewhat enjoyable.
Player just walks you down until you're in sight and M2's on top of you? Chase is over in 10s.
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I strongly disagree. I rarely win with him. His vines are pretty hard for me to hit personally even when I have aura. Sometimes I am too close when aiming and sometimes its just too far away. If they take away his "spam" then instead of his power hurting you after 3 or 4 hits it will need to hit you on each hit…Is this something you would want?
(My matches so far. I did so bad with him on the 4th game I had to hard camp just to get a 2k. I was terrible. Same with the 7th game going for my adpet. Was still fun at least trying to get my adept. Challenging.
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on-17 -
maybe the vecna had too much skill by hitting all his shots.
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You can argue that you don't find Venca fun to verus, but considering his main power is a SKILLshot, you can't really claim he takes zero skill.
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I'd argue the shots are more random chance than skill, on both sides. Nevertheless, the killer is more about pre-running and looping tall, strong structures. You can't do much at filler tiles.
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Ehhh from my experiences versing him it's pretty fine. Rules against Nurse pretty much apply with Vecna, lose line of sight, move and route in weird and unpredictable ways to make it harder for him to hit you and so forth. Increasing the cooldown of his ability just means they'll reserve it for garaunteed hits making him far less fun to go against.
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Why buy an obvious pay-to-win killer only to tunnel, camp, and slug? I just can’t wrap my head around that mindset.
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I've got really mixed feelings. He's super fun to play as but I'm not great with ranged killers. I've played 17 matches as him and I've won 11 of them. It works out to a 66% KR so far. So pretty okay results, nothing amazing. I usually do better than that when I hop on a new killer.
Playing against him has been a different story.
I've played against him 28 times so far. In 8 of those I've escaped. That's a 28% ER against him. Only one was a 4e. Three were hatch, so only I escaped. One was a player who had me in the mori stance in end game and let me go, so that would have been a death if he hadn't been nice. Only 4 of those 28 matches were wins for the survivor team and in almost all of these matches I was in a party, so it wasn't just soloq confusion. The Henrys I'm going against land damn near all their hits. I've never had so many losses against a new killer so quickly. Usually there's a period of figuring out both sides go through but this has been stomp after stomp after stomp.
I don't know how much can be changed though. Nerfs might make him unplayable for mid players but in good hands he's nearly unstoppable. I'm curious to see where things are at in a few weeks with everyone figuring things out more.
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yes I would love that. Skill in dbd is slowly diminishing after each and every killer. The last killer they got right was Nemesis. (Thank you Capcom) other than that he shouldn’t be rewarded for spamming. 3-4 sec cooldown or make him leave the red world faster when he misses.
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I'm not suggesting to buy powercreeping DLC as a solution, but I have the opposite problem; i seem to lose 1 win 1 with Henry, but I've had way better luck playing survivor into him thanks to 11. she's the real killer of this chapter I swear.
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I don't think this reply substantively rebuts the original poster's main argument. Having to use Vecna's power wisely instead of spamming it makes for better competition, in my opinion. You could remove the tokens and either give a rechargeable limit like Huntress or introduce a longer cooldown between hits. Most Vecnas are camping and tunneling anyway, so the weak excuse that the supposed disadvantages for killers are causing abusive player behavior doesn’t hold up.
I mean, they could really make it exciting by having him get three or four M2 attacks before needing to recharge at a clock. When he recharges at a clock, it disables that clock.
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as a killer if ur under 3k hours u will always struggle, no matter which killer u take(exclude S tiers by basekit), it is what it is. same for survivor, also sometimes is also depend on ur build, and how much u invest in dbd, are u playing casually or u training in customs etc.
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all killers have certain skillset require to master, even this one, but u can just spam ur powers and eventually u gonna hit, even if ur bad lol.
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facts, those people are killer mains they barely even play survivor and mostly stuck in low mmr cause their escape rates are low due to either them or bad teammates, also even if they were good and they had high mmr as individuals, getting a low mmr teammates would effect the killer u encounter, if u get in 4men strong groups in high mmr u will mostly get decent killers, sometimes really good ones and sometimes less than decent, but then they could say survivor isnt that hard because they are in a full strong team, they dont get the point of playing casually and get a good teammates that boost their mmr ratio in a lobby where the killer is far better than he should be for that lobby specifically even tho it should be a balanced lobby, but its only balanced when the strong survivor gets picked on early instead of the weaker links, but killers can spot weaker links and take advantage of it.
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To improve your game skills, play as a killer, play as a survivor (using SWF communication), and play as a survivor (not using solo communication). Do these three things.
Use bonds, empathy, and predict the movements of survivors. This will give you experience as a killer.
Adding bonds and bloodlines to your voice communication will enhance the aura of your voice, making SWF even stronger. That's why I'm against standardizing bloodlines and bonds.
Post edited by ONSAN on-2 -
This is more of a self-report on how you leave your teammates to die than anything else.
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And, if you had the slightest clue how to play, you'd be able to both help your team more and learn how to actually play against him. As it stands, you make excuses instead of taking responsibility for your own losses.
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I havent had too much trouble looping him so far. Even made a few give up chase. I asume their logic as to why he can spam so much and why his worldbreaker lasts so long is that hes the first killer that has to hit you 4 times to knock you down. So in a way like trickster getting loads of knives to spam at u, and then a rapid fire mode.
The trick ive found to looping him is to think 2 steps ahead. Like you are running at a window or a doorway, you know hes going to take a shot there so you double back, but you also think of where he might shoot incase he predicts youd double back lol. If they miss you gain distance and time to use the window or lose line of sight past the doorway. And it just keeps repeating. The other thing is to gain as much distance as you can because he is slow moving and has a shorter range on his shots than maybe deathslinger. In otherwords holding W works well.
As for the undergate attack you try to plan where you are going to B line (run straight out of the circle) than you trick him by going the other way, if the center lands infront of you just turn around and go straight, if its behind you just keep going the way you are going, and stay in open areas till he comes out.
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Two survivors should not be on clocks, and no one should be trying to take hits against The First. Your 4,000 hours have gone to waste if you can't see the problems with all that and react accordingly.
Oh, and I have lasted at least that long in chase and escaped against Vecnas. Sorry to disappoint.
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Actually good advice.
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If two people are on clocks, gens are not getting done, which means you don't escape. If the Power is getting activated so fast, it's because you and your teammates don't know how to dodge it and know how to be away from the gens, in case it does activate.
Anyone, except you.
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Why do you keep bringing up other people? Do you lack the knowledge and skill to play this game so much that you need to rely on others who do to make your points?
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Solo queue isn't the issue lol. It's your teammates being bad.
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Sounds like they've wasted their time to me.
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Ah, yes, because time always equates to skill, as indicated by how prestige equates to skill. Wait, that's not quite right…
It could be that he's a new Killer and Survivors should wait a month to handle a learning curve before deciding that he needs to get torn down in power.
That said, honestly, this conversation with you is pointless. So, bye.
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If Vecna takes zero skill why am I not hitting every Vine attack I do?
Either you are not running unpredictably or I'm a bad shot. Both ways has skill involved so the premise on this thread is suspect.
Post edited by Emeal on2 -
i have a buddy, that played 15k+ hours this game. Once i played against him in a 1v1 as various killers - he was 90% of the time going down in 10-15 seconds (i had almost 2k hours). So, no, hours do not corellate with skill
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Yeaht, thats what 50/50 means, its up to both players ability to predict the other.
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Not only it's a new killer, it's a new licensed killer, so it just couldn't be otherwise.
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Yeah but it does not. Only if the Survivor does something dumb or super unpredictable. Same thing can happen to Huntress.
Does Huntress have a serious skill issue now suddenly? I think not.
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Don’t bother arguing. This is the same person who was on the forum over the holidays making a bunch of posts to insult and troll killer players and then got banned once the mods came back from vacation. They’re apparently back and doing it again - of course they picked the weekend to do it. They are not trying to make a serious discussion - it’s just someone who doesn’t play killer claiming all killers are OP and telling people that they suck at killer if they don’t 4K every time.
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They designed that around the hits being difficult to hit, but if you have a weak link who's giving free hits or your team is just not better than him at the chase, he will get it all the time.
Make it so if he’s spamming his power he loses the red world faster.
I agree with this. The second phase is 60 seconds long according to the wiki (no clue why it shows 1/4 of the clock). Each missed hit is like 5 seconds deducted from this timer. Could be a good change.
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Thanks for the tip. But I like to investigate the logic of his opinions either way.
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All I know is solo queue is an extremely rough place right now with matches constantly either against this guy or Ghoul.
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How do you know he takes zero skill to play? Have you tried playing him yet?
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Notice that nobody downvoting you or claiming that he takes zero skill to play will provide any evidence that they’ve tried playing him themselves. It’s just the same “us vs them” stuff here all the time going in circles with people refuse to consider the perspective of the other side.
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I'm not new to this game as either role, I just don't play ranged killers much because I'm on console.
Empathy is one of my default survivor perks though. It's value is unbeatable.
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I'm pretty attached to both my survivor and my perks and I'm not really sold on hers. Maybe when they end up in the shrine. I know I won't play as them so I usually can't bring myself to buy survivors.
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So you claim that every killer that was after nemi released takes no skill? Like wesker,houndmaster take no skill with their power you have to hit with narrow hitbox that isnt forgiving.
I would argue that those two killers I mentioned take more skill than nemi does due to him having small drag on his whip so its easierr to hit, if he didnt have the drag than he would be harder because you would need to hit the whip directly which isnt always easy.
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Every new or reworked killer is having more kills due to survivors finding the best and most comfortable counterplay which takes time.
Look at springtrap there were dudes spaming post like "new ghoul bhvr pls nerf" and what happened? He is consideret like in middle of tier list so I ask where is that new ghoul?
This killer is strong but requires you to hit your shots and is easy to hold W from what I have seen so unless you go against someone who can predict very well because thats all this killer is about predicting where the survvior is going and where he will be, will he doge back or left or will he run straight? thats all what is this killer about predicting survivors you trajectory and getting hits same as pyramidhead but little different (maybe easier to get hits with but needs more hits to injure or start the clocks and has mobility but he is slower).
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Agreed, not to mention the MMR changes to good Vecnas go up and the bad vecnas stop playing lmao
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On the contrary, I find him quite engaging to play against and as. He's got a very high skill cap.
The only thing I'd change is his ability to tunnel off of death hook using Mind Break. Make it so that the Mind Break mode downs you first, then picks you up. That way, Endurance can proc.
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That's what DBD is about now lol No skill, easy wins, no thoughts. No skill in SWF's and all the new Killers have been no skill, in order to compete with the no skill SWF. It's what the community wants though, otherwise there would be serious convos about how awful current SWF implementation has been/is for the game and how that's promoted no skill easy to use S-A tier Killers to compete. Plus, Vecna will receive nerfs once the DLC has made it's max initial profit, like every other Killer release the last couple of years. The Devs capitalize off the horrid game balance in order to suck pennies out of the playerbase.
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Does Vecna need adjustments? Probably but I'm not expecting much since license chapters got that Ghoul brand protection where they ain't gonna nerf a license killer for the next few months cause they need that sweet sweet cash.
Second the more i play against and as the First the more I realize he's a glass cannon very powerful but any sorta major nerf would destroy him and drop him a couple tiers that's why if any sort nerf were to happen that would have to be minor tweaks as to not ruin him.
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The skill celling for him is very low because his aoe and cooldown is way too forgiving.
But we do have killers like blight, ghoul and nurse who do nothing but "press m2" and profit one way or another.
He hopefully gets nerfed or adjustments because alot of maps are way too open and barely have any LOS blockers to justify his kit.
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From what I've experienced in my Henry matches, this killer takes a decent amount of skill. If you're spamming your power immediately off its cool down, survivors start getting into a rhythm where they know you have your shot ready and will path weirdly to dodge, especially when out of sight.
I also appreciate that Henry has an anti-tunnel and anti-camping mechanic built into his kit, where using his special attacks near a hooked survivor makes his attacks take much longer. It makes him one of the worst hook defenders in the game. More killers should have these kinds of safeguards built in to their powers.
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the difference between him and nurse is he is 4.4 and Nurse is 3.8. He can keep up whist spamming his power it just doesn’t feel good to go against.
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The problem is Vecna Vine attack kinda needs to be that way since he requires 4 hits to down any sort of major cooldown nerfs would hurt him pretty badly the only thing I could reasonably suggest is a .5 to 1 second cooldown nerf at most anything greater would be crippling on him.
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