Damn playing a low tier killer is Horrible right now.

You then ask - "Where did they say they were happy about the difference in group sizes in high elo or it fell in line with their balance?" (sidenote - this question pretty clearly indicates you think they are unhappy with it, it doesn't make sense to ask someone for proof of a stance you agree with)

Lmao no, that doesn't indicate that.

+

you said

In fact, you are relying on that post for BHVR saying they are overall happy with the numbers.

This is the part you left out. YOU said they were happy about the ER which is why I questioned you where? I didnt ask you randomly like your trying to frame. Go back and read.

They only specifically said they were happy about the KR. I never once, brought up them being unhappy or happy about the ER, you did first. When I never said it in the first place.

YOU said they were happy about the ER which is why I questioned you where? I didnt ask you randomly like your trying to frame. Go back and read.

I know reading all the words in a quote is not your strong suit, so I'll help you out.

—In fact, you are relying on that post for BHVR saying they are overall happy with the numbers.—

You does not mean me, it means you.

Lmao no, that doesn't indicate that.

So you're repeatedly demanding me prove that BHVR has a stance that you think they have?

As I said, if you believe BHVR doesn't have a problem with the high MMR disparity, everything you used to back up your argument falls apart, so happy to have convinced you.

Let me rephrase that first paragraph for you: unless the killer is decent at the game gens will go fast. Why is this a problem?

Maybe go actually read the conversation that has been had so you understand the context.

At no point do they say they are unhappy with the 48.3 or its outside that there norm. In fact, you are relying on that post for BHVR saying they are overall happy with the numbers. Much like the quotes, you are only using part of it.

Your clearly saying here they are happy with both the KR and ER here. When they never said anything about the way they felt about the 48.3.

I wouldn't worry to much about reading anything if i were you but more the English language, because it seems like you think you can just make words mean what you want them to and completely ignore context.

I know reading all the words in a quote is not your strong suit, so I'll help you out.

Ironic. Lol

I wouldn't worry to much about reading anything if i were you but more the English language

"but more the English language"

I hate to bust on typos because everyone makes them, but its kind of funny when you are accusing someone of not comprehending English.

Your clearly saying here they are happy with both the KR and ER here.

Your should be You are or You're

Anyway, I'll quote you - "Lmao no, that doesn't indicate that."

Let's break down the quote

>At no point do they say they are unhappy

This is true.

>you are relying on that post

you, not me

>Much like the quotes, you are only using part of it.

still true.

People have went on insane win streaks with low teir killers, does that make any of the high teir killers any less better?

The only problem is that "fact" is you trying to assume gen multipliers aren't a problem based on how well some of the best survivors in the world can extend a chase.

For example we all know blight is a extremely bloated killer and performs well in high ELO, but does that mean the best killers in the world have to use him to perform there? No.

That's like me showing you a game saying

"Look at this game of trapper going on his 200th game win streak, trapper is S teir" Is it trapper or is it the player?

The truth is most players even in high ELO depend on crutches, killer and survivor.

You think the best survivor players in the world in a group need to sacrifice perk slots to make gens drastically shorter?

Go watch any top killer and see how many gen rushers he goes against.

iv been arguing what the vast majority of swfs do in high mmr, not what the best survivors in the entire world does.

This goes back to you when you said you've met killers with 90% KRs those killers dont represent the vast majority of killers in high MMR. When you guys bring these people up your talking about the top 0.01 percent of players in the entire world.

High mmr doesn't mean the best players in the world. These are statistical outliers

These players

• Run perfect tiles
• pre planned pathing
• They track killer mind games instantly
• Abuse map knowledge to the pixel
• and they loop for minutes

Good players still make mistakes like pathing errors, misread mind games at times etc their not near perfection like these players you use as a example.

These players you use know the killer’s only correct option, and play around that, even against blight and nurse these players can route them for minutes. Their perks will reflect that.

Swfs ER isnt a whole 8% higher in High mmr because of these 0.01% of players.

This is why you see alot of times these survivor teams with these crazy wins streaks gets ended by a #1 killer or another top of the top killer.

It's not unbalanced, you're just not as good as you think you are. It's quite a common affliction for killers in this game.

Watch any actual high mmr swf and you will see builds similar to the winstreak one. Gen speed perks can be effective but only if the killer lets you sit on gens. It doesn't matter that these top killers see those builds because they still win those matches. I bet you would agree that matchmaking in this game sucks so a top killer seeing those builds doesn't even mean they are facing a high mmr swf or even a high mmr player or even a swf. One on hook, one in chase, one going for hook, one on gens. This setup means that if everyone brings gen perks only one person is using their perks, it is incredibly inefficient.

You are simply looking for any excuse to explain your losses and have decided this is the thing instead of looking at how you could improve.

You dont have to choose between DS and gen rushing you can pick both. I mean you have a point, i dont have the official data to say it corelates but, this is the forums and im giving my feedback based on my experience and other killers experience all over the internet who are undoubtedly in that realm of mmr and to me, thats data worth entertaining. If you win 100 games in a row im pretty sure your in high mmr if were being realistic, and all over killers streams you can see they go against gen rushers all the time.

But either way being able to do a gen in 24 seconds with 2 perks + prove. Is broken. weather you wanna believe there using these perks or not.

If you win the majority of your matches then what's the problem? Clearly these things are not beating you, right? You are basically saying that you should be winning your matches even harder than you already are. I agree that most go for cheese over actual skill but that cheese only gets you so far before you do need actual skill to win but the cheese can get you much further on the killer side than the survivor side.

If the cheese is beating you then you likely can still improve unless you are solo queue (my primary role) and then to some extent you are at the whims of the matchmaker (not that I can't still improve). I regularly lose to killers that played worse than me but I can't think of a time I lost to survivors that played worse than me, even when they go for "gen rush" perks.

I use them as an example because people will regularly retort something along the lines of high mmr/top players/etc… (like you did) and you simply can't get more top than this. If those players reach for chase/anti-tunnel over gen perks then its safe to say that chase/anti-tunnel is stronger than gen perks. And if you watch these players play killer in public matches they will win basically every match, that cannot be said of them playing survivor unless they group up. I don't expect anyone to be as good as them but then they need to stop expecting to put up the same results. If you are not on their level but still win as many of your killer matches then we have a serious problem, especially when I see far more complaints like those in this thread claiming survivor is too strong. The claims of winning every match but that survivor needs nerfs do not add up or they just want to win matches even harder than they already do.

For the record I would in fact be in favor of removing literally every perk and item that effects gen speeds on both sides and then re-balancing how long gens take around this (and lets make them variable for different killers while we are at it). Though this is mostly because I think the existence of gen regression/blocking is the primary thing that prevents killer build variety. So long as those perks exist or so long as they can be stacked they will always be the strongest thing killers can bring (unless they get nerfed to actual uselessness) and then gen speeds have to be balanced around killers stacking them.

Let's assume you are correct for a moment, what would the result be?

1. Gen speed perks are removed/nerfed
2. Kill rates go up
3. All killers are nerfed in some way because the kill rate has gone up

If your suggestion is correct and its as prevalent as you seem to think then gens are too slow for BHVR's intended balance without the existence of these perks.

As for your question, I would still focus on going for long chases. Stealth is not reliable, it can work and should be used some of the time but you cannot consistently avoid the killer forever, certainly not a decent one. If the team cannot sit on gens because the teams chases are not long enough then they will not be able to make use of their gen speed perks, some of which require multiple people sitting on the same generator. Someone will need to go get hooks, you will need to heal, and that gives the killer plenty of additional opportunities to find survivors to chase. Gens make noise in the first place, the killer knows someone is at least around. If their chases are not great they should still be running DS or OTR or some anti-tunnel which eats into the gen perks and immediately makes the gen perk strategy less effective in the first place.

It might work on less skilled killers but it won't on more skilled players that keep their chases short. The number of times I've had a conversation like this where the skill level of the killer is neglected is way too high. You are describing decent players who should be able to win at least some of the time when going against decent players. Ya, matchmaking sucks but that is entirely BHVR's fault and until that changes the stats we have show that the majority of matches favor the killer even when going against a high mmr four man which makes up a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase.

Ghoul literally gets a free injury with deep wounds for just looking in a survivors general direction. It takes no skill to hit someone like that. You literally have to do half the work other killers have to, have a built in counter to most anti-tunnel, and you will be across the map on the next survivor in moments. The number of people that defend ghoul is the prime example of how easy many killers expect the game to be for them. No killer has done more damage to this game than ghoul has.

I cant stop you from trying to change the english language, do as you wish.

As for the rest of this post, its just once again you deflecting because you refuse to face the wall you keep running into that YOU created for yourself. You wouldn't be in this situation if you didn't spent your last 4-5 post deflecting.

So to cut through the deflection - you are the one who brought up BHVR KR's numbers, high MMR, and alllllll their data (I'm keeping the 7 Ls that you used in the original) and you've spent two pages avoiding what you said. You can either defend it, or admit you made a mistake.

like what are you even responding to you deflect so much your just completely out of context in every post now lmao.

This is classic deflection technique you are engaged in

Why are you talking like a anime character? lol

Well, first of all, hook states are 70 seconds.

Iv played dbd for years, they use to be 60, i forgot that they changed it in a 2024 update.

Last official chase time we were given. One minute, on average, for an entire match, is not a lot. So keeping people in chase is easier than ever. Survivors can't do gens in chase, last I looked.

I was following you until you said - "so keeping people in chase is easier than ever". The stats actually implies that the killer spends most the match NOT in chase.

Third: This magical scenario you've concocted for "24 seconds" takes a full suite of perks, multiple survivors, those survivors doing gens inefficiently by grouping up, and using single use items. This is not possible all game. So pretending that this is "the norm". It's an extreme outlier, that almost never actually occurs in normal games.

1. its not a magical scenario
2. It doesn't take a full suite of perks (if you mean survivors running full gen builds)
3. It doesn't take multiple survivors only 2.
4. Its not always inefficient to double gens especially when your clocking them at 24 seconds!
5. your right, Its not the norm at all, given that high mmr isnt the "norm"
6. With built to last it is very possible all game

You're doing the equivalent of comparing the "2000 kill steak blight" and screaming because you think that's somehow every single match. And it's not.

I never insinuated that it was every single match il quote you what i said in a previous post

This is just not true, most swfs in high ELO gen rush.

Iv been talking about Swfs in high ELO this whole time never did I once, generalize the entirety of Dbd games.

I would love for you to explain to me how doing a gen in 24 seconds or less with 2 people without a full gen perk build is balanced though.

If you notice almost all of this post is you repeating yourself from pages ago lol. You've been trying to brick wall the discussion between me and you for a while now.

 If you bring up a source as an appeal to authority, like BHVR, you don't get to use them selectively. Either you commit to the point of view that they must have data we don't, or you throw it out entirely (as a hint: generally it's better to throw it out entirely, especially with BHVR). Otherwise it feels like you don't have the ability to defend your own stance and so you are cherrypicking what you use.

This is something you said pages ago, to which i responded and you deflected. So now after derailing from your own deflecting, your saying this again after its context has drifted. ( which is why it makes no sense. )

When you ask people questions during a disagreement, there has to be some relevance to the questions, or you are obviously rage baiting. As an example, you want me to prove BHVR is happy with something despite the fact that you are unwilling to take a stance that they are unhappy. This makes you seem afraid to actually engage with discussion.

Iv already addressed this pages ago. It didn't change, when ever you build the courage to be in a situation that feels like your point fell apart and not deflect, you can always go back and actually quote one of my response post to this

Looking at the bigger picture here, it looks like you get some type of discomfort when reality clashes with what you believe/want to. So instead of you updating that belief you reject the evidence. This is why you just deflect, repeat, deflect, repeat.

I'm just not going to entertain it.

Thanks for the suggestion though, ill be looking into that tournament.

You've just argued it so poorly you're hurting your own side.

Me and you haven't been discussing about gen speeds, its been a cycle of you repeating things you didnt like the answer to. You can always add to the topic if that's how you feel.

I think there are some gen rush options that survivors have that probably should be nerfed.

This has honestly been the foundation of everything i have said. Not to move the goal post but iv been saying this from the start, even in other post. I may have given slight exaggerated build depictions but it was just to convey a point that gen multipliers need to be looked at. Theirs not just only 1 gen rushing build.

It's the overall discussion you've engaged in and I brought it up in my first response to you. Everything harkens back to either that or what gets used from BHVR as evidence.

You focused on the evidence I used instead of the point I was making, reinterpreted what the devs actually said in the quote, and then asked me to defend positions I never claimed.

That’s why the discussion kept going in circles

But you're not engaging in the full spectrum of the argument (something @FerrousFacade mentions in their last reply). There's a clear tradeoff between gen speed and survivability (exhaustion, anti-tunnel, second chance). As a game mechanic it makes a lot of sense to have players make those tradeoffs. Are any of the perks too strong? Maybe, though I think not by much. Toolboxes probably are, though part of the issue there is the mess survivor items have been in for awhile now.

I hear you on tradeoffs, but my point was that gen speed multipliers are especially strong when SWFs have coordination via comms. That combo is what makes gen speeds feel too fast. I’m not saying perks or items don’t factor in, but the SWF coordination is key to what I’m saying