Slugging for 4 mins.

I second this.

Hatch is stupid.

They do understand it, they just don't care. They never play as the killer, so they believe the killer is there just to entertain them. Just read how the OP post is written, the style says it all. The best we can do is to return the favor and intentionally use all the "mean tactics" they complain about here. I didn't usually slug for 4k, but now I will do it more often, thanks to the OP.

Now you're just becoming childish and passive-aggressive yourself. People slug to the 4k because they want the full victory against the survivors, just like survivors who wait by the gate (besides the more altruistic reasons) just want to rub it on the killer's face instead of just leaving when they already won.

Both lead to an already decided game being extended beyond it should and the respective frustration on either side, but you failed to understand that so I hope this gives better insight on the root of the problem how it can't exactly just be taken out as easily. Its not just because it wastes time, I am sure any killer or survivor players wouldn't mind playing 4 more minutes if it meant that they won, but rather that 4 more minutes are put into the game when its already over.

I've have numerous players say they enjoy slugging because it speeds the game up. If everyone is down/hooked, etc… its abandon time. This mindset is an issue, imo.

But that's not… the problem… being talked about, no one brought that up. Its not the 4-man slug. Its when there's 2 survivors left, one is left slugging when the other is running for his life, taking the time to loop. One of them is just forced to sit there waiting for the match to be over. A killer trying to 4-man slug can lead to this, but that's different because there's still the chance of a comeback. I don't know anyone who wants to sit by while the other survivor is taking its time and looping when there are 3 gens left and your other two teammates are dead.

Also, wanting a 'complete victory' is not the same as 'survivors rubbing a win in your face.' The things you put next to one another as equivalent is beyond me.

Killer's closest equivalent for waiting on a gate to t-bag is to get the 4k, that was different before abandons existed but not anymore. The moment the last survivor is down, everyone leaves immediatly. No stalling, no endgame chat, not even the Mori. So they go for the 4k because its the only way they can also rub on a survivor's face.

I don't like either of those things, to wait by the gate or go for the 4k, or have to deal with the consequences of being in the losing side of either of those things, but you won't see me coming here on the forums asking BHVR to remove it because I felt bad about, yet someone else complains calling out the devs that one side is making the game annoying for them, they just tend forget the same equal issue happening on the other side that causes the problem they're complaining about. Examples of that are genrush meta vs quad-regression meta. Everyone using Blight & Nurse vs Everyone using Exhaustion & Windows.

The hatch should be balanced for bottlenecked trials, not as a last ditch effort (especially when it's particularly weak on that front as is). Additionally 2025 was supposed to bring us some changes to make this scenario less likely, but that is clearly not a concern for BHVR. Unfortunately, Survivors are expected to lose more, do less, and face harsher consequences for their failures. All we can really do at this point is ask for more "legal" chances to forfeit via Abandon.

To set aside the obvious anger/emotional over-investment OP has in their recent posts (happens to all of us), it is evident that the 2v1 is the worst potential part of any trial. There're a couple of different scenarios that can currently happen, and they're all annoying as hell for all concerned. Assuming that nobody gives up or DCs and there's noting like Devour Hope in play, this is how it goes down.

Stage 1. Killer sacrifices 2 Survivors. If Endgame Collapse is not active, one of the following occurs:

Survivors 3 and 4 can either

a) try to finish remaining gens/open exit gates. Difficult, doesn't always work depending on gen progress/map layout but the most likely option to actually acheive something and is in the true spirit of the game.

or

b) hide and hope that Killer finds the other first. Bad scenario, wastes everyone's time, frustrates Killer and other Survivor. Survivors who do this often (or even go into the trial with the intention of doing this) exhibit a selfish playstyle that values their own survival over their team's.

2. Killer, assuming they find a Survivor and can catch them in a timely manner, can

a) leave Survivor 3 slugged to find Survivor 4 and get them too. Bad scenario, wastes time while Survivor 4 either runs, hides or goes on the merry-go-round of picking up Survivor 4 and being downed and healed on loop, negative feelings all around. Killers who do this often either believe that a 4k is the only acceptable win condition or have an animus against the Survivors, possibly for actions during the rest of the trial.

or

b) Killer hooks Survivor 3. This leads to another fork in the road.

3. If Survivor 3 is on death hook (or is on Struggle phase and chooses to give up), Hatch appears and it's kind of irrelevant at that point whether Survivor 4 finds it or not.

If Survivor 3 isn't on death hook, then Survivor 3 can attempt to self-unhook (or guarantee an unhook if they have certain perks). RNG based, improbable, doesn't necessarily change anything. Otherwise, Survivor 4 can then:

a) try and unhook Survivor 3, which puts us right back at either point 1 or 2 depending on whether the Killer is camping the hook or trying to find Survivor 4. Bad scenario, wastes everyone's time, probably doesn't change the outcome. Survivors who do this frustrate me because, from my perspective, they're prolonging the trial for no reason and may just be farming their teammate for BP.

or

b) wait out Survivor 3's ENTIRE hook time (can be as much as 140 seconds if they go through full Struggle phase) to try and get hatch. Bad scenario, wastes everyone's time, might result in an escape for Survivor 4 but leaves everyone feeling kinda bad about it.

How many of these outcomes are actually enjoyable for anyone? Almost none. Neither Killer nor Survivor should be able to drag out the end stage of the game as long as is currently possible.

I propose that, when the second Survivor is sacrificed and all generators have not been repaired, the Hatch should spawn and one Survivor can escape through it, triggering the endgame collapse. This means that Survivors cannot be held hostage in the game so easily by a Killer slugging for a 4k, and the chances of escaping go up at least a little, while still incentivising Survivors not to hide, since the Killer could close the Hatch prematurely and start the clock on the EGC. However, the Killer also gets their Final Mori or whatever we're calling it, so they can kill a downed Survivor without having to hook them. This obviates the need to slug in this scenario and also prevents either side from prolonging things with repeated pickups or downs.

Half of the survivor community members, who always sit on the hatch and teabag, before jumping into it in killer's face and saying "gg ez noob killer" in the chat, would kindly disagree with you.

All due respect, this is something of a kicking-the-can-down-the-path solution. This would just encourage killers to slug at 3 to minimize mobility before the hatch. I like the energy and your assessment breakdown of options is accurate, but I don't think spawning the hatch earlier helps any. In fact I'd argue hatch spawning at 2k would only encourage slugging and tunneling as well, as the ability to force a hatch spawn when you have memorized the positions of hatch means you can bypass the gen-rush issues by tunneling to two and engaging in fun-happy-chase-time, which is what many killers want when faced with the alternative of gen-rushing and looping a T/L until the heat death of the universe.

Then again, to expose my bias, I'm also of the 'get rid of hatch and add a third gate' school of thought. Hatch encourages ratting and the number of go-next behaviors I've seen when I hook the third is astonishingly more common than people actually playing out. I'd place the stats around 70%+ off the top of my head for go-nexting on Surv 3 hook.

The hatch idea was itself pretty nifty, but it's only begun to congeal into a larger behavioral problem as the meta secures around it. The meta being, from my personal experience and perspective only, 'If you are on the hook and two are dead, go-next to permit the fourth a hatch chance.' I don't blame surv's either, mathematically it's the most sound choice. However as long as that behavior continues, you'll see slugging on the third surv continuing to counter it.

It's just plays and counter-plays. It's not an exploit anymore than vaulting a pallet into the killers hitbox to avoid a hit is an exploit, or locker hopping to avoid a nurse is an exploit.