Lessons for next 2v8 from a 2v8 Killer Main
I primarily play killer during this mode, and here are a few lessons learned from this iteration that I think should be implemented based on my ~100+ hours from this 2v8 gameplay experience:
- Remove 2 of Nemesis' zombies, increase zombie respawn time, reduce zombie walking speed, remove the ability for killers to see zombies - currently nemesis is too oppressive, and I find matches quite boring when I am queued with a Nemesis player because of the free slowdown his zombies provide.
- Remove the ability for instadown/dash killers to use shadow - Completely unfair for survivors, I feel bad when I play Billy with shadow or Wesker with shadow
- Remove Oni until blood orbs despawn after 90 seconds or his power time is cut in half - there is no reason Oni should have unlimited access to blood orbs. This isn't like 1v4 where he is fairly weak until he gets his power, as he has another teammate to help. Oni is the most oppressive killer in this mode currently.
- Remove the third dashes from Wesker and Dracula - two are more than enough from my experience
- Fix Chucky's buggy animations - half the time he looks like he is either t-posing during attacks or is flying around the map
- Increase exhaustion to 60 seconds - sprint burst is off cooldown way too frequently
- Reduce pallet density - this just goes without saying
- Actually have an accurate time estimate within reason for queue times - 22 minutes estimate should not mean 5 minutes of real life time
These are just a few things from the most recent 2v8 experience that I think can be improved. Please let me know what you all think, thanks. 👍️
Comments
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Nemesis zombie should stay and he does not need any nerfs when he is not even that oppressive in the first place
I don't see point to limit classes on killers and its not really that big of a problem even with instadown killers
Oni does not need to removed some minor changes might be needed but he is not a problem (also removing is never a good way to fix anything in my opinion Legion did not need to be removed either)
Keep the dashes no need to remove them
Chucky needs some fixes yes
I would not increase exhaustion just make the power to charge slower as it way too fast back up
I don't see problem of pallet density in 2v8
There can be valid reasons why you could get match faster like people leaving from the queue or disconnecting from the lobby so thats why they are estimations as you can't count those things in it-7 -
Some Nemesis zombies should be removed. 99% of the community agrees.
Having 0 terror radius or chainsaw noise on billy or wesker is a problem for survivors and leads to unfair gameplay.
Oni needs to be removed until a solution is found because he is a problem in this mode.
Remove dashes per my reasoning.
Increase exhaustion time so other survivors can't chain sprint bursts.
Pallet density is an issue.
Update my estimated queue time during a wait.
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You're talking about nerfing killers when the game mode is heavily survivor sided?
I think you're forgetting that a huge chunk of players want this mode to be goofy semi-unbalanced fun party time.
There are some extremes I'd tone down, like sprint on command and Oni's effectiveness, but that's about it. Maybe buff some weaker killers and underused classes too.
So much of what you're suggesting already exists in 1v4, and the people who really like 2v8 like that it's different.
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People like that 2v8 is different, but that does not mean 2v8 needs to be a chaotic unbalanced mess like it currently is.
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Where is this 99% have seen maybe few people complain about them so my experience does not support your claim. They also are just a hindrance and can be easily lured away and dealt with. Also using that statement makes your point less believable as its always what people claim to back their own belief and usually is not true at all.
Other points are just you stating the same thing you already did and those are not good reasons to do those things as I stated earlier. Also you can't chain sprint bursts if you are in chase anyway as exhaustion does not go down if you are running. The reason why its better to increase the power charge time than the exhaustion is the reason so the same person can't spam the sprint burst power to others during the chase where they already used it on themselves.
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There have been many posts over the past 3 weeks regarding nemesis zombies, so yes there have been many people supporting my claim.
A group of 4 survivors can coordinate sprint bursts among one another better with a higher cooldown and lower exhaustion versus my suggestion.
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No mention of the on-demand Sprint Burst nor Medics healing mid-chase. Your requests for balance changes feel too one sided, it would just make killer feel even more difficult to play with.
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Increase exhaustion to 60 seconds - sprint burst is off cooldown way too frequently
Did you read the entire post?
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As much as I personally dislike going up against high mobility Shadow Class Killers, I don't want BHVR to restrict the class. I don't really want anything removed from the current iteration tbh and I still think BHVR were wrong to bench Legion the way that they did. I would maybe forbid KWFs from choosing certain Killer combinations (such as Oni + any Killer that can get quick injuries). And bots should never benefit from the tonics. But if the Kill rates are otherwise fine, I wouldn't change anything else except maybe buff some weaker Killers a little bit to encourage more variety.
I think the players that enjoy 2V8 have embraced the chaotic, unbalanced nature of the mode. It's a big reason why people like it. I may be wrong, but I feel like most 2V8 enjoyers wouldn't even care if Legion was added back to the mode unchanged in the next iteration. It didn't improve queue times one bit to remove them (as might be expected if they were really pushing players away). I think survey/forum/reddit feedback often comes from the least satisfied players and BHVR interprets that to mean the player base as a whole hates something more than they actually do.
I think almost nobody playing 2V8 takes it seriously enough to care if certain things are unbalanced or unfair.
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Yeah, I did, and its a placebo. That won't do anything with the fact you can just press a button and evade a killer's hit completely. I'll take a 20-30 exhaustion with the Sprint Burst working like before, without the ability to just press a button and deny a hit because its harmful design to the weaker killers.
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So you want sprint burst removed then? How is that fair for survivor players? Increasing exhaustion to 60 seconds for everyone that gets sprint burst is more than enough…
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People will use Escapist very selfishly, they'll often get in a difficult loop and when the killer is about to hit them, they'll activate it and run away to force them to waste even more time. The other scenario is that killers like Wraith or Ghostface will successfully corner a survivor with their stealth, but they'll activate Escapist and manage to run into a safe tile. Same goes for killers like Wesker or Chucky who are about to corner someone with their dash, but just use Escapist to escape. Its a instant win button for as little effort as possible on a game mode where every second counts for killers.
This is not Sprint Burst, this is a super cracked version of Dramaturgy. I want it to work like before where you had to actually manage your dash like a proper Sprint Burst like you do in 1v4.0 -
these changes can come after Escapist is changed. Shadow is the only exciting class.
I'm open to removing extra dashes but not if Escapist is untouched. if that class is untouched I'm demanding Ghoul be in the next 2v8
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The most fair balancing they can do for next patch is
-1 nemesis zombie and a buff to his tentacle
Oni receives a Nerf
That's all they need to do.
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Nemesis - I think something has to be done to weaken the zombies, though this seems a little too much.
Shadow - I don't think BHVR would ever consider this, but otherwise yes.
Oni - I think they should reevaluate how his power triggers because, like you said, its not 1v4.
Wesker/Dracula - I think the 3 dashes are fine.
Chucky - Sure
Exhaustion - Personally, I think Escapist is overrated and the only thing that gives it value is the frequent sprint bursts.
Pallet Density - I guess it depends which pallets we're talking about as a lot of pallets do very little to slow the killer. If we lost fillers, sure.
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based on my ~100+ hours from this 2v8 gameplay experience
Considering the killer queue takes half an hour, and an average game takes 10 minutes, those 100 hours of mature experience would translate to 25 hours of actual gameplay and 75 hours of pure waiting.
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"Remove billy instadown" like he has only two addons here spiked boots plus low kick chains and thats it and his only plus is just that you can play with other killer and he is one of hardest in 2v8 for skill requirement so if someone is good with him its earned not autogained.
Nemi needs buffs and 4 zombies arent that huge deal because his chase sucks.
60 seconds for sprint class (escapist) is solid change because this class counters everything so Idk who though 20 was ok with 30 seconds of exhastion, at minimun make exhastion effect last 40 seconds so all cant just sprint burst every while.
Oni reduce turn speed (+20%) and nerf demon dash speed to like 9-10% from 15% and I think he will do fine, people forget he is powerless untill he gets hits or lot of blood but he isnt that op just plaing m1 killer untill you get power and his slugging is nerfed hard in 2v8 so he must count well with using his power.
Problem with killer in 2v8 is that unless you get survivors that are potatoes or very good teammate that can carry and plays strong killer you must pick like only from half of the killers (spirit,wraith,nurse,billy,blight,wesker,oni) because others are very underpowered or can compete with fast phased mode like 2v8 especialy with catch up mechanic that should get reworked too (for each gen done there will be slowdown to all gens and for each kill there will be buff to gen speed instead of cage so normal playing killers arent punished hard and tunnelers must count with some counter to their strategy with this mechanic).
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And? They added the survivor queue. Or I can get up and do anything. I'm not glued to my chair.
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with the exception of the chucky bug, thats a No on all the killer nerfs for 2v8
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I only support the idea of removing zombies, but I would also add additional mutation progress for each hit on a player or zombie, so that the stage accumulates faster, and reduce the number of syringes on the map or some other buffs in general, the idea is for the player to play against me, and not a stupid AI, Nemesis standing AFK creates pressure while other killers need to do something
I disagree about the killer classes, they are all useless except for the shadow
P.S
Regarding the sprint, I agree with the people above; there shouldn't be a sprint button
Regarding the scout, I'd give him a longer cooldown when he creates a pallet, but a shorter one when he simply resets it
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What nerfs in particular and why?
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