I've never seen an actual skilled killer main say that killer is easy
A common sentiment I see alot is "I get 4ks without tunneling and slugging and camping, killer is easy" and you check their post history and they mainly post survivor main takes, and some of them even admit like a week ago "i barely play killer but…". Anyway some of the people that have said they get 4ks without tunneling/slugging/camping are streamers. Perfect! Now I can get some video proof of this person in action and maybe I can learn something from this person, right? After all the best way to get better is to watch better players and see what they do (this applies to literally every video game). So I go to their twitch and check their vods and see how they play killer.
These "killer mains" are playing on default FOV, no hiding their red stain, not looping tiles correctly, barely hitting with their m2 power, getting pallet stun at every pallet, falling for window fakes, and even getting spun.
Can someone explain this to me? These "killer mains" are apparently really good and the rest of us need to get better at killer since we tunnel/camp/slug, but the way they play, they play like they just installed the game.
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Most people play worse than they think they do. I was starting to get quite confident for a while before taking an absolute humbling from the sweatiest Ace I've ever had the displeasure of getting looped by. Well done random console player, had to take a minute after that :(
Tangent aside, at lower MMR, specifically less coordinated survivors who respond to pressure poorly, you have so much more time to get things done. If these killer players are matched lower, then they'll probably have more time to get slapped about and still leave with a 3/4k without the tunnel because survivors are prioritising injuries over gens, swarming for the unhook or not spreading out.
That being said, I do think the necessity to play that way is slightly overblown. In some games, yes, I think it's the only route to victory. With some killers, yes, it's rare you win without some dirty play. But people insist it's every single game and I just can't fathom it.8 -
I consider myself a killer main and I would say it depends on situation…
Killer can feel easy overall simply because of matchmaking, but as soon you get group of decent survivors it can turn from easy to difficult or even impossible based on your killer/perks/addons/map.
But I can also bring best killer, addons, perks and go for tunnel whenever I can. At that point I need to basically get near comp level team, soloQ have almost no chance.
I can also play Ghostface with 0 slowdown and suddenly one bad chase means I lost the game…You can make both sides easy, or difficult.
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I have never seen that any of those people who claim that Killer is hard are actually skilled.
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I think both statements are pretty pointless bc they use the term killer.
There is a vast difference between a nurse and a trapper. And even if you dont count the extremes, there is a big difference between the different killer.
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Been a while since i posted on forums.
My take here is whenever i play killer and even if i feel confident in killer and got 70% WR/KR.
It always gives me bad intrusive thoughts how i will always lose and make mistakes and it will be stressful and it causes me panic and instant high heart rate.
But when i play surv, i am always relaxing even when killers tunnel i never lose my chill and im always calm.
I think it has to do with 4 survs aka 4 humans on the other side of screen vs 1 other killer aka 1 other human.
So 4 human brains vs 1 human brain.
With that logic in my mind i always seem to feel relaxed when playing survivor even if i lose more than escape etc.
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In regards to non-video social media, like Reddit or the forum, you never really know where anyone is coming from. We have people who've been playing since the game's inception, and ones who've been playing for a few months. There are 200 hour players and 10k hour ones. There are what you said: survivor mains claiming killer is easy while playing against babies. But you also have killer mains saying survivor is easy while using low-hour stats inflated by abandons as examples. You have people who use their assumed MMR that no one can see as both a badge of honor and a claim to victimhood, despite almost everyone agreeing that matchmaking is poor, so MMR should only matter so much. Even when people say killer is hard, does hard mean they're losing, or does it mean winning isn't as easy as they'd like it to be?
What you don't see is much personal responsibility. Survivors blame tunneling but won't acknowledge unhooking in the killers face. Killers blame genrushijg while not accepting they overcommited for 90s. This is why I take everything I see in the forum with a grain of salt.
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Im a Future p100 Unknown Main and i got to say it depends on the Survivors and time of day for me. You can get a baby survivor lobby that dont understand what a chest is while in other games you get the p400 Swf that knows every loop, Every Killer counter and every single more ur gonna make and never get a single hook or injury.
You can have everything in a match fall apart and still lose even if you where playing well. The Games MMR system is what makes killer and survivor miserable.
If I had to say which side is easier I have to say Survivor. Ill post my States to prove it.
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One I dont think these are the true stats. But when I do play survivor i feel less stressed out than Killer
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Without knowing our MMR, nobody knows how 'good' they actually are.
And if you don't know, then why care? My killrate sits at a comfortable 70%, and I don't tunnel. :shrug:
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It's mainly killer mains that say this, and these killer mains happen to be youtubers/streamers so we can see their game play. We can see they are talented and skilled and they 90% play killer. Shinycatmae posted a video of them on Badham where they were deathslinger and maybe missed 3 shots the ENTIRE MATCH and still got 4 outed. I doubt anyone even reading this thread has that same kind of accuracy.
How is it survivor mains who barely touch killer, can 4k "every game" without tunneling and slugging and camping. However killer mains who spend every waking moment playing killer, somehow cannot? Nobody finds that odd?-5 -
If it was truly difficult, then the skilled ones wouldn't need to burden themselves with additional handicaps to make winning more than a few games in a row impressive, and the ones that don't use handicaps wouldn't be able to win hundreds, if not thousands of games in a row without them.
Survivors that are struggling are constantly told they just need to learn to play better. The same goes for killers that are struggling. Both are suffering from severe issues that are an absolute and complete failure of the developers to balance the game correctly, match players of appropriate skill against each other, and create an environment where players feel their time and effort is correctly rewarded.
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If you never played killer, the first several games you will be playing in the baby MMR bracket, against brand new survivors who don't know how to press W to move forward. Those survivor mains you are talking about try killer, wipe the floor with potato survivors and think killer is easy. Actual killer mains have to grind through layers of SWF sweat bully squads at the peaks of MMR, so nothing easy is going on for them.
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Keep in mind the killers who are handicapping themselves, play this game for a job. They don't play it for fun, they play this game to pay their bills. Big difference between them and the average guy who gets home after an 8 hour shift and wants to log on dbd for a couple matches per day.
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easy games basically roll down to RNG unless you are like what's his face on Blight. but who wants to live like that.
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Knightlight and many other good killer players said that public killer is ultra easy, aside from myself im over 12k, killer is public overall is easy, the only problem we currently have is cheaters dsync map rng and mmr.
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My response to people who say things like "X underpowered killer is actually totally fine i get 4ks all the time without tunneling and slugging and camping" is to post a video of a match. Let us see. Because the truth is either:
- We are in fact all truly wrong, and that killer is in fact totally fine and you have some unique way of playing that as a collective we don't know about. So we all learn something
- You aren't nearly as good as you think you are and are playing against unskilled survivor players, which should become obviously apparent in a simple video by watching how those survivors play.
- You are overestimating how often you get 4ks and actually its much more rare than you let on.
- You are actively lying.
In any case, we not only can prove the statement, but could potentially benefit the community at large (in the event that its the 1st one)
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cheaters dsync map rng and mmr
Four 3-letter words, not a single one of them being SWF. Do you actually play killer?
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He is one of the best killer in the game. Not like 0,1% or something, more like there is maybe 2-3 players in all of dbd which are better. Of course public lobbies are easy for him. I myself am vastly better than the average player in dbd and i wouldnt have a chance against top tier comp players.
But if we reverse all that and let those players play survivor they have it also extremely easy.
How is mmr a problem for killer? Its a pain playing with a weak killer against comp survivor bc you stomp the average lobby often, but most matches are easier with faulty mmr. Easy matches are boring, but i wouldnt want to sweat everytime without a reward.
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Knightlight plays this game for a job, not for fun. Bad example. Also 5-10 killer players in the world doesn't represent the rest of the people that play killer.
By your logic we shouldn't buff Trapper because there's people out there who have gotten multiple 4ks in a row as Trapper.-3 -
I mean, you did use streamers as an example yourself, and you wanted to hear about good killlers saying killer is easy. So this is a pretty valid example. Do you want average and bad players to sound off, or good ones? Because many good players will be streamers.
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With that kind of logic thats like boxing is easy because mike tyson and jake paul said it but truth lies somewhere else.
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Knightlight is an extreme example and like one of the top players in the world. The streamers I mentioned are good but not top of the world good. You can't use the very high end of the spectrum for measuring things. Knightlight says killer is easy, so bhvr doesnt need to listen to the rest of the killer population on gen speeds and survivors being hyper efficient and survivor perks combos that break the game? I'm pretty sure even Otz gets worked up in this killer games and he has 14k hours.
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Because comp players typically play comp, and if you have watched any of those you see exactly what a good, organized survivor team is capable of. Something you are unlikely to face in public queues. So, when he plays hundreds of hours of matches at comp level, and then goes to the "normal" queue, of course he is going to think that.
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You can't use the very high end of the spectrum for measuring things.New player says killer is easy - low MMR, doesn't count.
Very experienced player says killer is easy - too high of MMR, doesn't count.
This is one of the reasons people don't bother with the 'show videos' argument. If it doesn't show what people think it should, you'll get dismissed for being either too low or too high.
I'm pretty sure even Otz gets worked up in this killer games and he has 14k hours.The guy who has multiple videos of 50 kill streaks? Like he has a 50 win streak from the Dredge a month ago.
Though I do think this goes to one of the differences in the mindsets. Usually when people are saying they can win without slugging and tunneling, they aren't shooting to win every game, because they understand that is a silly standard.
These "killer mains" are playing on default FOV, no hiding their red stain, not looping tiles correctly, barely hitting with their m2 power, getting pallet stun at every pallet, falling for window fakes, and even getting spun.Can someone explain this to me?It's really hard to explain things that are so vague without any specifics on who - but possibly because you aren't prioritizing the right things. That having a good understanding of game sense, where to go, which chases to take (macro skills) are far more important, but less obvious, in overall outcome compared to what you mention here (micro skills).
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Worked up? But he's winning a lot, isn't he? This goes back to what I already said. Having to work for a win is not a real complaint. It's not supposed to be handed to you. It often feels like the people complaining have high KRs and just want more, and they want it to be easier. Killer is, for me, the higher stress role. I don't ready up expecting (or wanting) a 4k at 5 gens, and I wouldn't play the higher stress role if I couldn't handle the higher stress.
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I guess what im trying to emphasize is that if a 14k hour player who plays this game for a JOB is getting stressed out, what about all the average players? You know, those same players that vote to have 2v8 extended. Those are the majority of the dbd player base. The guys who get off work after 8 hours then hop on a couple killer matches in dbd.
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But that's also someone who makes money off the game. I dont think these people should ever be used as an example of anything. I pretty much constantly advocate for the game revolving around the avergae players, but if this is the example, the 50-match-a-month everyman, this would 1) also apply to this sort of player playing survivor, and 2) should be handled by matchmaking. This person would probably also not be a very good player, like you're looking for, just an average one, unless they used to play more. And if matchmaking worked (it doesn't) it should be the solution. If you're actually very good you're opponenents should also be very good, and it should be a struggle for everyone involved. The issue is, as always, matchmaking.
But there also seems to be some people who think they're very good but are also always mad at the game, so at that point I have to wonder if they're actually good or if they cheesed their way to an MMR they don't belong in.
Stress is also something of a choice. Go hard and you'll get stressed. I had that issue recently, where I was worrying more about outcomes than enjoyment, and I've taken a step back with a killer I have fun playing, regardless of results, amd it's helped my mindset a lot. If I found the role that aggravating though, I just wouldn't play it, especially if no ones paying me to do so.
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Otz gets stressed and freaks out when he plays survivor and is going for winstreaks or hardcore challenges. Hell, Otz gets stressed and freaks out when he plays single player games. Look at his DS2 randomizer nonsense. Which he insisted on doing deathless because otherwise it'd be too easy. All him being stressed out is evidence of is that he's still breathing.
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This is a very solid point and I totally agree. Matchmaking does need a looking into (they said they would in 2026) and far too many people think they are better then they actually are "I get 4ks without tunneling/slugging/camping" while also chasing a survivor around a tall rock for an entire minute
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I think this is a Dunner-Kruger type situation.
If you judge all Bubba play off of Epidemys, then Bubba is S-tier and needs to be nerfed. But if you judge all Bubba play off of Player_01 who clocks in for two matches a week on Fridays after work, Bubba needs some massive buffs.
Skill levels dictate opinions in nefarious ways. I tend to get 4K's on Huntress, or 0K, and seldom in between, when I tunnel/camp/slug. But when I don't do those things I get… 4K's, or 0K, seldom in between. The reasoning is that I personally only slug/tunnel if I sniff a SWF on the air, or I see some disrespectful or unpleasant behavior. This, unfortunately, does mean I end up tunneling and slugging more often than not. People love to teabag and taunt to try to pull attention and I have no real way to know if it's them trying to make a play, or be a @)*#$, so I sit up.
This means as a result my read on tunneling is skewed because, effectively, I only end up using the tactic when I feel I need to.
Kind of re-creates that old joke. "60% of the time, works every time."
TL-DR; Survivor bias, and not the 'survivor' of DbD. People who have the skill to 4K without it don't need it enough to bother remembering or caring about it, people who need it a little don't realize how much, and people who need it alot won't typically be open about the use of it as a crutch.4 -
So you just havent seen any skilled killer main til now? Thats all your posts resorts to?
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i mean there are examples where you can say, "this killer, playing at a high level is very difficult." i won't argue against that.
but even still, you can still say "this killer, played poorly, still has a higher kill rate than the escape rates of most of the survivors in the game."
that's the crux of these arguments.
further, i have almost an 80% kill rate across the board on every killer in the game. i'd also say i'm not a good killer. i'd also say i get easily dumpstered on by good teams. and most of the games i play as a killer DON'T FEEL MEANINGFUL because they are so easy. it's like 3 out of every 4 games i play require very little effort on my end to perform well. but then i can randomly get dumpstered by a good team of survivors and that feels really bad. and i might feel like there was nothing i could do, because their team was too efficient, too good at looping, used all their resources well. they easily destroy me. okay, and then the matchmaking gives me "3 easy games" where i kill everyone. then i go into another game and get dumpstered on by a good team again. this is what i'd argue actually feels bad about the game right now. games are too one sided. it's like the game is either too easy and unrewarding, or you just get straight destroyed by much better players.
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This is a lot like what I experience, though usually leaning more in the other direction, with more difficult opponenents than bad ones. But when I get the bad opponents, my God they're bad. I don't know how you can go from 5k+ hour players in one match to 200 hour potatoes who run in straight lines without looking behind them in the next. Lately I've had more bad ones showing up, and I've given someone hatch probably once every session because of how terrible some of these people have been. Like, I shouldn't be 4king at 5 gens daily. It often feels like there's zero matchmaking.
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Oh yeah you can see plenty of people claim killer is easy and if you refute that they will never show gameplay of themselves. A lot of the times their gameplay would probably consist of someone running in for the save right in front of the killer or trying to hide behind random objects while they were already spotted.
It's also a lot of people like to associate something being unfun = unskilled. Is tunneling, camping and slugging the most fun playstyle? No but recognizing when to do said actions is a skill. Like you don't see people INTENTIONALLY gimp themselves in sports or other games (which if you decide to play "fair" you are unironically doing) and get called better than someone else unless it's a super egregious case which dbd isn't that type of sport/game. If you intentionally gimp yourself as killer you WILL end up losing if the survivors so choose to actually play and get good at the game and make as little mistakes as possible which isn't hard against the majority of the roster on a majority of maps.3 -
No, all I watch are killer mains on youtube and twitch, some of them comp players, some of them world record holders for their killer they main.
My post resorts to "Man im struggling in these matches. I'm also seeing similar sentiment from other killer mains all over reddit/youtube/twitter. Wait this person online says I need to get better at playing killer and im bad for resorting to tunneling and camping? Aw man. Wait they're a streamer too! Let me watch them a bit and maybe I can learn what they do…. oh their game play is terrible. They're vaulting a TL wall too??? Why are they not double back or trying to mind game at this tall rock they've been holding W at for a whole minute? They're losing all their 50's and getting pallet stunned so many times too. This is the person telling me im bad at killer and they get 4ks every game?"
Yeah pretty much that lol.-1 -
Do you mind posting some of your killer gameplay for us? Remember what I said in my original post, people that claim killer is easy have survivor main posts/comments. You've complained and talked many times about tunneling or are sharing your survivor builds, but are also a great killer player and have an 80% kill rate on EVERY killer?
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killer can be pretty easy depending on the killer , and your connection to the survivors to where you just hit them for free cross the map .
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My biggest problem with this statement is the follwong.
The rare times I touch Killer I play my favorites, Myers, Chucky, Clown, Trapper which are nearly all changed now… but I play them from time to time or I try to get archivments. So I can play all Killers atleast decent.
The funny Part is the following…
If I play some better Killers, like Wesker, Nurse or Ghoul the Survivors I face seem to don´t know what a pallet is. (before you say that I am in the Baby MMR with them remember I have all archivments so yes I got all 20 Jumpscares from Springtrap the legal way and not farming and so on so it is not my first 5 games with each killer)
But when I play a weaker Killer suddenly the Survivors mutate to a navy seal team, shutting my traps down before I walk to the next location.
Something is flawed with the MMR heavily in my opinion.
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Zubat put all killers on S tier in pubs, lots of people dominating in pubs, u claim everyone is wrong and ur right correct? yea i played comp as well, and im getting back to comp pretty soon but it doesnt matter if its comp or not, i have casual friends that play both sides and say the same thing. yea they have some bad matches against good survivors, but they dont whine about it and ask for survivor nerfs, they realize is skill issue.
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You can namedrop whoever you want, it doesn't automatically make them right.
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There is some loose mmr drop like when you dont touch some killer in longer time but you play him occasionaly your opponent will be little weaker or not so hyped (from my experience) but sometimes even if I hadnt touch some killers in months or almost year I still faced teams in few games that were above my skill especialy with that killer so I think its still wild mess but on other hand better than before and if it would be very strict than you would as survivor didnt even see some killers iff you were good because they wouldnt be able to beat themselfs to that levev if mmr worked as some strict ranked system and term like" just ghouls and blights" would be way more common for more people than it is now.
For your springtrap achievement tbh I dont know anybody who used his doors and I played survivor when springtrap droped for like month or two alo like all my games were 95% as survivor and I only saw megs and few survivors use his doors especialy when he wasnt in chase or didnt carry someone to hook so Idk who you went against but most people found out there isnt much of any benefit to use his doors as mobility unless he does some actions in which you know he is doing them and than you can use doors like to go across the map but still its not better to use them maybe for revealing him (his grab has very strict rules but Idk who jumped into doors and thought it will end well only saw few megs and sables but comparing them to other teammates back than they were little weaker on looping and experience side and gave up a lot or got downed fast so Idk), you must have been very lucky because getting that achievement in normal games without making survivors help you get it is super hard probably one of few hardest achievements in the entire game because of all how his travel through doors grab works.
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Love how they name but majority of streamers and other content creators that are pretty good because they play the game for living 24/7 (not as average joe who has to get up in morning to work and has kids and other chores to take care of) and they mostly still post only their good games where their build worked or they won and like once a year some show how some their games from that year didnt went as we thought like spookyloops or hens do this and you can see there are still teams that can wipe them pretty casualy (meaning mostly when they have some valid build on that killer not like hens where he had as demo only two perks that werent that great and no addons against full meta stuffed team that played super well because if this case vast majority will loose).
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killer is extremely stressful if your up against competent survivors since it's a race against time
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Killer is stressful no doubt, but I feel like it's objective fact at this point that Killer is the easier role. Not only is it designed to win more often than not, you have areas like the endgame (where Killer is strongest) and elements like aura reading that are specifically balanced in their favor.
That being said, Survivors do adapt but it's incredibly difficult to overcome everything stacked against them. They are still losing the strong majority of their trials.
Realistically, if you're falling below the projected 60% KR, that is incredibly rare. The entire game is balanced so that that doesn't happen. I'm not implying anything beyond that, just saying that that isn't the average experience that you might think it is.
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So you actuall just agreed to what I said. Or are you implying that people who do not 4k as killer arent allowed to say that killer is easy?
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I'm sorry I don't know what you're asking. Yes I have seen and I regularly watch skilled killer mains.
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Love how they name but majority of streamers and other content creators that are pretty good because they play the game for living 24/7Thread title 'I've never seen an actual skilled killer main say that killer is easy."
People proceed to name skilled killers that say just that.
not as average joe who has to get up in morning to work and has kids and other chores to take care ofAre we talking about the 'average joe' killer vs 'average joe' survivors, or vs non-average survivors?
Because if the server matches a casual, average against extremely experienced and sweaty, it's not going to go well for casual/average. That's true for killers and survivors, I mean that would be true for any online game.
spookyloops or hens do this and you can see there are still teams that can wipe them pretty casualyAnd skilled 4 man SWFs also sometimes get destroyed.
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You don't watch much streamers then.
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just like it doesnt mate you right.
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have you seen survivor mains say, survivor is easy?
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