http://dbd.game/killswitch
Gen-rushing from the survivior side
I think people became efficient and started using toolboxes and perks for gens because that's the only way they can win games.
After anti-tunnel, anti-slugging changes being dumped I feel like they lost their hope for the game's health and enjoyment.
Killers now just tunnel most of the time, more than they did before.
Some surviviors gave up on using meta perks like DS, Deli and killers just get a free win because of this.
New killers are really strong at looping, their power are mostly anti-looping and really the only way to win is being efficient and quick at gens.
Surviviors experience is getting hit behind the pallets with killer's power.
Or getting hit after the stun or vault.
The First doesn't care about vaults
Krasue has increased speed, free vaulting, good mobility
Kaneki vaults after the surviviors for free hits on top of having free first hit
Animatronic just throws the axe
New killer releases are anti-loop, after anti-loop.
Comments
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You're conveniently forgetting all the survivor efficiency buffs while not compensating killers for it, even nerfing them further in addition, making it worse and more miserable to play for them. There's a reason the killer anxiety movement has become a thing. You're obviously keen to only see one side of the coin and base your argument on that and not the overall state of the game.
Killers have to more than ever end chases quickly to keep up with gen efficiency. That's simply the direction the game has gone due demanded changes and the speed the game can play out now. Short of further nerfing maps directly to accomplish that, killer design has to now shift towards a combination of mobility, anti-loop, slowdown and weakening resources for survivors to feel good to play.
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I disagree…
I think survivors bring gen speed builds because it's the most simple thing people can do to win more. Majority of survivors don't seem interested in getting better and learning more about the game. Especially not about playing Killer.
It doesn't even make sense that it would be a response to tunnelling because tunnelling is the counter to these builds. If pressure from hooking multiple survivors is worthless then killing survivors as quickly as possible is the only thing they can do. Basekit BT + DS exists so that a killer can't tunnel and pressure at the same time. Survivors can absolutely win if they directly focus their efforts on countering the killer with anti-tunnel/camp/slug, exhaustion perks and healing instead of speeding up gens.
For the majority of killers on the other hand, they need full gen builds to keep up. Because they are simply too weak at going for hooks and camping to win.
Newer killers like the ones you are mentioned are designed to be strong enough to win games by pressuring survivors and going for hooks so they don't have to tunnel and camp. They still can, but it's not their optimal playstyle, and shouldn't work if the survivors are competent enough.
Plus if killers aren't designed to be strong in chase and have map mobility then you get killers skull merchant and onryo who historically are just nightmares for survivors even if they were never that strong.-4 -
"all the survivor efficiency buffs "
enlighten me.
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I mean anti-tunneling and anti-slugging systems would be a good start for health and longevity of the game.
Surviviors would be happier overall.
Killer would have some buffs for hooking (first iteration of anti systems)
Killers who wouldn't keep up with the pace would be buffed, which was told by BHVR stuff.All we needed was finding a way to stop survivors to use the system agressively.
I really believe that surviviors efficiency is direct way to fight killers who felt too comfortable because of the tunneling.
That's their only way to fight back right now, when we don't count the perks.2 -
Why would i engage in what's obviously going to be a dishonest conversation?
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I really can't think of any.
Was changing completing gen time from 80 to 90 seconds a survivior buff?
What about prove thyself nerf?Killers have to end chase quickly because of the gen speeds? Us arguing about this is like arguing about chicken and egg - what was first?
Killers need to end chases quick, because surviviors do gens.
Surviviors need to do gens quick, because killers are too opressive in chase and on top of this they bring 3-4 slowdowns every game.How am I wrong in saying that killers being too oppressive is direct reason why people had to become more efficient?
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It just isn't that simple. They cant make hook incentives that suit every killer and some killers are simply limited by their design, they could never be made to have an anti-tunnel playstyle because it would change their identity.
It's also not a good start to do something like this nearly 10 yrs into the games life span. It's destructive when these things have literally shaped how the game is to try and outright remove and exterminate any semblance of it.-1 -
You can also say that you dont have any arguments. Works for me as well. I really dont know what you mean with "all the survivor efficiency buffs".
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- You're absolutely right. Since I added two gen rush perks to my build, I win much more often. Even if I see survivors wasting time with blessed totems, healing when there's no need... I already feel like I'm dying because they're wasting time instead of working on gens. 🤣I even got rid of my beloved med kit, now it's just toolboxes. If everyone focused 100% on working on generators,it would be better, there's simply no hope otherwise.
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killer anxiety isn’t real, its just a ego problem.
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Was changing completing gen time from 80 to 90 seconds a survivior buff?
And got extra time on hook in compensation, which gives survivors more total time value than killer got. So what's your point? Because its proving mine.
You're showing the problem with thinking of and trying to justify only one side, both sides affect each other. But one side has the potential efficiency of 4 players combined and the other doesn't so they are not equivalent to each other.
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The game isnt killer sided, its a survivor skill issue.
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For the record, I am also curious about that and was about to ask before seeing the other response.
Sincerely, in good faith, I'm not sure what changes you're referring to either.
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I haven't changed my build or my focus but I have lost hope in the role. The tunneling and camping have gotten worse and worse. I've also had a massive uptick in killer's BMing me for no reason. The only thing that makes survivor bearable is playing with friends, and nobody really wants to anymore. I've been playing solo to get my iri for the season and it's been horrendously bad. If I ever lose the compulsion for that big red one to match my killer rank, I could see myself mostly dropping the role. I'm happier playing killer.
And you're right, I've been playing as Henry almost exclusively since his release and I don't care about pallets. DS is useless. People bait me into a grab and I take the bait because I can just snipe them with vines immediately after the stun. New killers are strong and survivor got a measly 5s added to the basekit BT that does nothing except help in end game.
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There is indeed a problem with repair efficiency, but it varies depending on:
- your skill level as a killer
- the map and its balance
- how smart the survivors are
- survivor builds
And these aren't even Gen Rush builds + toolboxes with BNPs, otherwise the game would have ended in 3-5 minutes
7 minutes = 420 seconds
Average chase time = 30 seconds
Each surv has 3 stages = 30 * 3 = 90
Total chases for all 4 is 12
Total chases per trial = 420 / 30 = 14
Extra 60 seconds for DS or DH-2 -
Exactly.
This really needs to be balanced better, because pallets and windows are the only things that introduce some interactions between both roles for survivior side.
Without it I feel just like the NPC.
Just running around, hoping that killer will not be accurate enough.-4 -
The game is balanced around killers taking gen defense perks, and survivors taking anti-tunnel perks. And its a problem.
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I don't think those single perks did you in. You also had two anti-gen perks as well. I also. bring that dreaded Commodious toolbox with meta add-ons AND BtL to refill it, as well as Deja Vu, and I've never once won a game in 3 minutes. I still lose more than I win as surv, and I still win more than I lose as killer while running aura and undectable.
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Yes, but I didn't have time to use them, because to activate them I have to go and kick the generator, which, unlike meta perks, is done passively, saving seconds
Regarding the trial in 3 minutes, I meant that if they had full repair builds, the game would have clearly ended faster
And yes, for now I am holding at 67% kill rate, but this does not cancel out that feeling when you just feel helpless, because everything goes too fast and you do not have enough time for all the actions
As I already wrote in one of my posts earlier, if I lose to -1 in 1 trial, then the next one I may well be against 4 players who don’t understand a damn thing about the game, which only increases my MMR and makes me suffer, because I’m still not very good at playing this killer, to put it mildly…-2 -
You’re acting like generator efficiency suddenly appeared out of nowhere while killers have just been getting weaker, which isn’t really accurate. The game has gone through years of back and forth changes where both sides adapted their strategies. Even people on the forums point out that a lot of what gets called “gen rushing” is simply survivors splitting up and doing the objective efficiently, not some new broken mechanic.
Saying killers now have to end chases instantly to keep up is also a bit of an exaggeration. If the entire match is decided by the first chase, that usually means the killer committed too long to a bad chase or didn’t apply pressure elsewhere on the map.
Survivors doing generators while someone is in chase isn’t some special “efficiency buff” it’s literally the basic gameplay loop. If three people sit on gens while one person runs the killer, the team is just playing correctly.
The bigger issue in the game has never really been raw gen speed it’s the huge power gap between killers. Top tier killers with mobility and map pressure handle gens fine, while weaker killers struggle. That’s a design problem with the killer roster, not proof that generators themselves are too fast.
So, framing the discussion as “killers are forced to rush chases because of survivor efficiency buffs” ignores the bigger picture. What we’re really seeing is players optimizing the game on both sides, not one side suddenly breaking it.
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We all have these same issues in both roles. The helpless feeling happens constantly in survivor too, when the killer gets so much momentum so fast that there's zero chance of recovery. I have people AFKing under hook and running up to me to die every time I play. I personally never feel that way as killer because I can still win in end game.
The MMR raising too quickly is a problem for everyone too. You go form getting the worst players you've ever seen to psychos, while feeling there's very little in between. It's a whole game issue, not just a killer issue.
I recently experienced this stomp:
I got two hooks. The solo had gen perks but that's not what blew it for me, it was being matched with three perkless anons that were probably high performers on a win streak, with a new killer I'm still learning (but doing decent with) and also on Badham. Matchmaking, the map, and my own lack of ability lost me this match.
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The MMR raising too quickly is a problem for everyone too. You go form getting the worst players you've ever seen to psychos, while feeling there's very little in between. It's a whole game issue, not just a killer issue.
Matchmaking, the map, and my own lack of ability lost me this match.
That's what I'm talking about 👍️
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well said buddy, good post, if u dont sweat as survivor in dbd u get 4kd.
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at least you know its lack of knowledge of the killer and such, most people would deny their fault for losing games. props to you.
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Tunneling or not its just vicious circle if one side is having more preasure than other the most effective way is either for killer to get fast kill with tunnel and for survivor to jump on gens to get them fast so killer cant keep up. It doesnt matter who begins because if you dont want to sit there and look helplessly at your lost than you must do something to fight back and that tunneling for killer and high gen effiency called often genrushing for survivor are the best and sometimes only ways.
Bad and truth thing is that mostly the one side which uses this tactic first has huge advantage most of times like in fight mostly the one who throws a punch first has upper hand and this applyes here too so in most matches either you stomp or get stomp and in few matches its chill but these are rare.
Another thing Im seeing more often are people that just want to be alone and do gens, they dont want to be chased by killer they just want to do gen or they give up and it was even mentioned by Otz who call it something like otzdarva law 2, these people hate being chased which is compleatly different from og survivors that wanted this game more how it is now from hide and seek doging trapps gameplay more looping chase based killer state, fact is looping isnt so easy as it was in 2017 where there was double pallets on every loop and pallet vaccum which was free dead hard basicaly which was so easy to use to.
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Tbh I read some year ago that the maps you do bad on that killer you play you get them more often and it seems to work even nowdays like when I pick billy,bubba,huntress Im getting more indoor maps on which I have worst success rate with them because they naturaly suck on them or open maps for ghostface which isnt coincidence.
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Good survivors were always efficient. The majority of the playerbase and solo queue haven't changed.
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Survivors don't genrush because of killer desperation tactics (killers do these often because it's possible for survivors genrush, and it's very likely to happen, since gens are boring to do and players feel the need to rush to quit the boring gen simulator), they do so because there's nothing else for survivors to do
Now one could argue that running all of these resources is completely unnecessary, seeing as most killers aren't strong enough to beat a team of well versed survivors, but it is really boring to do gens. 90 seconds default of standing still and occasionally hitting skill checks isn't exciting, which is why people run BNP's, gen speed perks and skill check frequency perks to make the boredom go faster
Is it fair? Absolutely not. Though, this is a very good opportunity for BHVR to introduce a new sub objective of gens to make them require more time and effort, but feel more interactive and rewarding for deviating from holding m1 for 90 seconds. A lot of people have stated in the past that getting gas for a generator or maybe a spare part should be a thing, which could have a more variable completion time since you may cross paths with the killer or you won't or the sub objective is far away. Of course if this were to be the new mechanic of generators, holding m1 with gen speed resources would need to be dissuaded. What I propose is:
- When a generator hits 50% progress, the generator will slow down any repair speeds by 25%, (kind of a weaker Scavenger trade off) with this dissuasion, you should find a generator part/gas, which when successfully installed/used, would stop the generator from regressing past maybe 25%, as well as lifting the repair speed nerf.
- For every 50% of a generator completed after this first part/gas used (lets say if the gen is regressed pretty much to its new limit), you get the option to do it again without causing a repair speed nerf, further making the maximum regression limit rise if you decide to keep pouring gas or parts into the gen.
This Would also indirectly stop 3 genning as a strategy, since generators that have enough effort poured into them would take a lot less time to repair, but at the same time, gens would take longer and would be a lot more interactive
New generator minigames would be cool too, like one where you use movement keys/d pad to push a cursor into a broken/exposed wire, which would respawn constantly when the cursor hovers over it, otherwise the generator explodes when you fail to hotwire in time. Of course, this would be paused and ignored if a skill check popped up
Essentially what the goal of this is is to give the survivor something to do the entire time the generator is being repaired, still with the occasional opportunity to get a skill check which would be more of a true test of whether you're paying attention while repairing, and grant you a chance at extra progress
On top of these changes, all generator repair speed and slow/frequency of skill checks would be heavily toned down to rely more on the new basekit of each role (essentially skill and better/faster positioning versus just running a perk or add on or item and getting free progress/regression for no effort at all)
Post edited by CompetitifDBD on-9 -
I also fee like as survivor player a lot of other perks are mid and just not worth running, same goes for items I dislike new maps and keys, glad to see fogvials getting changes tho.
Perks can be mid if they are fun, I like using scene partner on Lisa, same with pebble its not a good perk but its funny to run.
But why am I going to run this nehice change my toolbox into a med kit perk when I can just run Deja Vu to see gens and get faster gen speeds or resilience and just stay injured and get faster everything.
Also sometimes survivors are super efficient with gens and chases go good for survivor, I remember one match killer was going off on us about gen rushing in EGC , meanwhile no toolboxes and one gen perk.
Hopes for Future
I wish they would to another mega overhaul of a bunch of perks again on both sides, I remember when that happened years ago and it was so fun to mess around with new builds and stuff. nowadays we get 3 perks every few months and we go "yeah most of these suck and will never been used'1 -
- It literally makes me laugh when someone suggests mandatory "new objectives" beyond the generators. Imagine a match against a decent Blight or Nurse (I'm not saying good, just decent)... not only do you have to work on the generators, but you also have to look for the wrench to start your repair session (many propose a mechanic like this to "slow down" the generator work). As usual, strong, highly mobile killers would be even stronger and in any case better than Ghostface, Trapper, or Pig. It's like asking killers to build their own hooks before actually starting to hunt survivors.
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And I agree on that.
Oni and Twins would be especially hard to balance.
They need to slug sometimes to get any value of the power.Game has changed since the beggining and 10 years is especially good time for changes and some fresh air.
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I've had a game as a Blight yesterday, that I overcommited a good player on macmillan map with a lot of great fillers.
3 gens popped as I killed him and the game was over too. Got zero kills because of that.
There are some really hard matches, for sure.
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Game would lose portion of playerbase for good.
I prefer "holding M1" over running to get something to do the gen.
I hated fuel generators in the bloodmoon. I would always avoid doing them.
I would never play a survivior match if such changes were in the game.
This also would be increadible killer buff, because people could not be efficient enough.
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I think this is a big part of it. For years we've been told that we just have to get better at the role and apparently we have. But even though we still lose the majority of the time, there's still calls to nerf Survivor because they've gotten better and Killer can't keep up.
The more BHVR obliges the mindset that Killer is always worse off no matter what, the more they totally kill off Survivor. And from what I've seen, they're more than happy doing that.
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I mean i would say extending the hook timer from what was it 60 to 70 seconds improved a lot of efficiency from the survivor end ironically. Thats probably the best I can think of lol. And I guess if you count the mass of healing perks and buffs meaning less time healing. So less time healing+less of a rush to unhook.
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Which happened long after Gen Repair Time was increased. And which should have happened at the same time.
Healing also got nerfed. Mainly Syringes, which you dont see anymore (and some muppets said that they were buffed back then…).
But the reality is - the person I responded to has no arguments.
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I am totally waiting for a perk overhaul. We need more fun/useful/good perks on BOTH sides.
I don't want to run meta on any of the side, but I feel like I need to.
I hate killer perks nerf too.
Before the Save The Best For Last changes I would run this perk on every killer that I played with.
Then they nerfed it and made m2 take stacks and it destroyed the perk for me.
They also buffed unbound and this perk was amazing. You could outplay shack easily if you paired it with bamboozle.
10% was significant, but they nerfed it to 7% and it wasn't good enough in that regard, which is why I stopped using it too.Same with batteries. Before the last nerf this perk was decent.
Guess we can also include Sloppy changes.
I feel like DEVs need to introduce more significant perks that are not gen efficiency/gen speed/gen regress perks.
We need more variety.PS. Please buff back STBFL, Unbound and Batteries Included. :(
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I do this every time I play lol. I pick the wrong target, overcommit, know perfectly well they're leading me away from the key gens being worked on, but still do it anyway. I'm at least aware that I'm throwing though, and I don't whine when I have a 90s chase and three gens pop. I have killers that DC when this happens and cry "genrush" but it was them that let me sit on a gen for 90s undisturbed.
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