Surprised I don't see StB more often
(Edit for clarification: StB = Shoulder the Burden)
This perk, if used correctly, can shatter a large part of the pressure Killers put on Survivors by taking away a quick road to a kill. Since hooking… doesn't do very much, turning a 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 into a 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 can be absolutely devastating.
Do you guys see this perk often? Feel any change when someone triggers it?
Comments
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majority of survivors don’t know when to use it for maximum value. the average survivor still unhooks before the killer even leaves the area after hooking. them bringing stb would be a disaster and always make them go death hook or outright die just from using the perk. due to that, i dont see the perk often but when im playing killer or in a swf and someone uses stb, it can completely change the outcome of a game. im honestly surprised its not common since vigil is so popular and that perk buffs stb.
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I ran it for about 30 straight games to try it out. I got value I think twice, as in: got it to work, didn't immediately get downed myself, and it made a difference later on in the match.
There were maybe 5 or 6 times I used the perk but it didn't make a difference later on (someone else died first or we all escaped). There were a couple times I could've used it for value but didn't get to unhook or was across the map on a gen kind of thing.
And more often than I got value, I think 3 of those I got tunneled out myself and couldn't physically use it.
So, my personal experience is it's very situational and not worth bringing most of the time.
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- A while ago, I opened an OP on this topic. StB is a "difficult" perk to use, and not the reasons one might think. I suggest you take a look.
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There is no way to signal which teammate has it in solo queue so someone else is likely to unhook the death hook teammate before you can get there with Shoulder.
Then there's the high probability your teammates will be rats that avoid chases making you the primary target anyway.
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Probably because its a perk that gives value mostly to good and coordinated teams. To me, its the strongest perk in the game right now, but it requires a very solid team. You can "force" the killer to commit the same person twice and then save with StB.
I've run into some survivors doing winstreaks and almost all of them use StB.
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Since hooking… doesn't do very much, turning a 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 into a 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 can be absolutely devastating.Lots of perks look strong if you craft the right situation, but a perk's strength needs to be based on all situations.
In the above scenario, if the survivor with 2 hooks has StB, it's a dead perk slot, the 1 hook survivor has very few reasons to use it. And even if the StB survivor is at 0 hooks, if they use it and then are downed by the killer quickly, then they are right at 2 hooks as well. They have the advantage of starting a fresh hang time, which is valuable but not overwhelming.
So if you're able to use the perk in the ideal situation it is extremely strong, but DbD has a lot of perks like that - powerful, but situational, and lots of players prefer the perks that give them more consistent value.
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I use it when playing SWF, but in soloQ I prefer babysitter for extra info.
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I just can't make it to the hooks in time. its not a matter of me being slow, I also don't want to farm people just for perk value.
yet another reason we need to see perks in lobbies
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When I see it its swf or atleast on duo but last time I saw it it was on 3 man swf all had ds,dead hard adn shoulder the burden plus one perk of their own like unbreakable etc.
People saying that perk is weak are totaly off that perk can totaly wreck killers preasure especialy when the few gens are left and killer needs a kill a simple of use StB makes that survivor live longer and killer looses lot of build preasure in hooking that guy and buys lot of time so others can do gens.
Its very strong perk in right hands but soloq cant make strategies work mostly due to lack of communication and thats why no one uses that perk in soloq but in hands of good swf its a very strong perk that buys lot of time.
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It's a matchmaking issue.
StB requires a level of competency from both the unhooker and the unhooked Survivor in order to maximise its value, which is something that you can't guarantee with random teammates. Being able to take a teammate from death hook should be (and can be) one of the strongest things in this game, but oftentimes solo queue teammates will completely waste the second chance by Self-Caring under hook and getting found and downed again 10 seconds later, or spending the rest of the match hiding, etc.
If the game consistently paired you with good teammates, StB would easily be a meta pick. But as it stands, taking a hook state for Survivors of dubious skill level is usually not worth it. I mostly reserve StB for use with my duo, or keep it in my back pocket for solo teammates who've taken the Killer on a good chase.
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Very strong in SWF, rather lackluster when playing solo. Many such cases.
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I really wanted to like Shoulder because I feel it solves the problem that chase perks like scene Partner cause; you are simply too badass for killers to want to bother with so they just give up on you entirely and focus on a 3v1. I theorycrafted that Shoulder was the perfect silver bullet for that by being able to appropriately leverage your hook states.
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I use it time to time when I get it in the random builds I do. Sometimes you just don't get to use it as you might get chased first and hooked first or other get to unhook before you get to do it.
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That's why you change your playstyle according to what you run. It's very easy to coordinate if you're playing with other people; I don't think it's fair to say StB needs to be in the "ideal situation" to be strong.
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I've only seen this perk give proper value when 4 smart players are coordinating. Otherwise, it's detrimental, especially with hook states being visible to killers now and its usage being so loudly broadcasted. I had someone use it last session, stupidly shifting someone else's death hook to their own death hook when I was still fairly close by. The were dead shortly after. When it's used in soloq or by bad players, it's more throwing than strong.
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Shoulder is one of the most overhyped perks in the entire game and isn't worth using 95% of the time
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Sure you can, but you're still facing tradeoffs that make the perk not as powerful as it seems at first.
You now have a survivor who is playing more cautiously, potentially using other perks to stay out of chase, instead of on a gen, meaning they're sacrificing gen time, except if they were on gens with gen perks they might have finished before the survivors ever got in the situation to need StB.
And that survivor still faces the possibility of being down quickly after they use it and are now at two hooks.
Could it be a net positive? Sure, absolutely, but there's still the downsides that come with it.
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I almost never see the perk and when I do, it usually doesn't make a difference but it has a lot potential. It's kind of like Unbreakable in a way.
I worked on some adepts today for a buddy of mine and when I got to Taurie, Shoulder arguably turned the match from a loss to a 4-man out.
It was against an Oni, I was slugged once and never hooked while my 3 teammates were 2-hooked. I Shoulder'd the person on hook and they went and took aggro away from another guy giving him time to run away.
From there, we got the rest of the gens done and one of the people looped the Oni long enough for everyone to out. It was a TTV as well so I got to watch the match back from their perspective which was really fun!
I use Shoulder every now and then but I think this was the only time I got such good value out of it and that was doing an adept.0 -
I don't see tunnelling enough in my solo q games to bring it. Also, this is gonna sound pretty mean I know, but there's alot of players not worth taking a hook state for. If it's a good looper who will buy us time then sure, but if they're a good looper then StB probably isn't necessary to bring anyway.
I remember the uproar when it was released. Happens like clockwork tbh
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Selfless perks will never be commonplace in public matches.
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It's a perk that, though very powerful, is only truly valuable when used with coordination and by players with solid macro knowledge of the game. Since most survivor players are casuals, solo queue and/or maybe duos, it doesn't make a lot of sense to bring it when there are easier to use perks that give immediate rewards with minimal to no effort (looking at you Windows and Vigil).
So that's the main reason you generally will never see it in low MMR games, and rarely see it in mid MMR games. However, as I understand it you do see it more frequently in the high MMR lobbies, but I can't confirm that because I'm fairly certain my MMR is not high enough to get put in those queues, and can only go by what I've seen top end streamers dealing with, and through second hand accounts.0 -
It depends on a number of factors, but you can imagine the people running StB aren't the "scaredy cat" / "I can't chase" type survivors. Or, at least, I'm facing people with StB who are actually semi-competent. If a killer invests in 'future pressure' by focusing or downright tunneling someone out of the game, a well-timed StB can turn a 'potential something' into nothing.
I'm having a hard time articulating my ideas today for some reason, so I'm sorry if this comes out as gibberish. You understand the gist of what I mean, I hope.
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I definitely am seeing it a lot more in games where Survivors are using most of their brains. Whether that's a high MMR game or not; who knows. Still isn't shown to the player. And when StB is used in those scenarios, I'm finding personally it's often used strategically and correctly, by survivors who know how to play around the extra hook state.
The exposed timer is absolutely negligible given its short window. Only time you'll get the instadown is if the player timed it bad, is bad, or simply wasn't paying attention.
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I tried running the perk for a while and in the grand scheme of solo queue it just didn't really matter in most matches we all still die anyways or people got to the unhooker before me and so on
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You understand the gist of what I mean, I hope.I'll my best.
It depends on a number of factors, but you can imagine the people running StB aren't the "scaredy cat" / "I can't chase" type survivors.Let's go to the other end of the spectrum and a survivor who is likely always the best looper on their team. So here the idea could be 'killer tunnels me, I'm fine, killer tunnels someone else I can save them, and if killer switches to me, good'.
And sure, that could be a lot of value, but there's still issues.
First, if its soloq, impossible to make sure you are the one who gets the save. And if in a high skill SWF, there might not be a bad looper, so if the killer tunnels anyone its not a huge issue.
Then if we compare to other 'help another survivor being tunneled' style perks (soloq or SWF), we can get value without the risks/extremes that StB has.
Reassurance doesn't have the same max benefit, but can still be used effectively if the survivor has one or two hooks on them.
A perk like babysitter gets consistent value throughout the match without the associated risks. Its not going to have the extreme upside against say a tunneling Nurse or Blight, but has far more consistent value.
Basically - if the idea is that a survivor wants to bring a perk to help someone else being tunneled, they have options. StB probably has the most hypothetical upside, but lots of other perks can get value far more frequently.
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I'd heavily contest the idea that hooks don't do very much, they're the killer's best source of pressure/slowdown.
To the overall topic though, I think it's probably a combination of a few factors leading to it being kinda unpopular.
StB is an altruistic anti-tunnel perk, and those just aren't very popular overall; if you're spending a perk slot to protect against the killer tunnelling, most people are going to bring perks that protect themselves instead of their teammates, regardless of strength.
Additionally, it requires some degree of coordination and trust in your teammates to use effectively, so the average solo queue player probably isn't going to want to take that gamble in particular.
The risk associated with the Exposed effect doesn't help, but honestly I don't think that's the main thing standing in the way of this perk being popular.
On top of that… it's honestly not quite as good as it might seem on paper. Its best case scenario is game-swinging, definitely, but there are a myriad of small ways it can break in a different direction. On top of that, it's also a hard anti-tunnel perk and doesn't do anything if the killer isn't tunnelling- compared to something like, say, Babysitter or Off The Record, both of which do have some useful effects when the killer isn't tunnelling.
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