Overly Strong Perks

Same…and I am pretty good killer.

I do quite enjoy elevens perk where I get tokens that reveals the killer for 10 seconds.

I've always thought it was weird it follows the killer and doesn't stay on the gen, but I guess it would be kinda bad if it didn't. It's already so short.

Out of all the aura I use, I'd say Nurse's Calling is the most problematic, since it can make finding a tunnel target off-hook kinda easy. And with undetectable of any sort it can be a real issue. It's easy to figure out when it's in play though, but often the hard way.

It's never leaving my build.

It's super useful and saved my butt so many times. It's my favorite perk atm also.

If you are getting downed by a series of aura perks that is an issue with Looping not the perk. There are plenty of perks to counter auras to be fair.

Calling it a “looping issue” completely ignores how much aura stacking is warping the game right now.

Looping is supposed to rely on uncertainty and mind games, but constant aura reading just removes that entire layer of gameplay. Survivors are effectively pre located before chases even start, so it stops being about being outplayed and becomes more about being repeatedly revealed until a down is basically guaranteed.

Saying survivors should just “run counters” honestly just proves the point. If multiple perk slots are required just to not be constantly tracked, that isn’t counterplay, it’s just a tax on basic gameplay that shouldn’t exist in the first place.

It also gets even more ridiculous on already strong killers. Ghoul in particular becomes far more oppressive when paired with stacked aura reading, because it completely removes downtime and turns matches into nonstop forced interactions with very little room to reset or breathe.

From solo queue especially, it’s just heavily one-sided since there’s no coordination to offset constant reveals, so you’re essentially always at a disadvantage for no real reason.

That’s why it should be nerfed. Not small adjustments, but actual hard limits on how frequently aura reading can be applied, because right now it removes too much uncertainty from the game entirely. At minimum, all aura reading perks should operate on a token system so information isn’t handfed to the killer for free with no effort required, so survivors actually get a fair chance to play the game properly.

Personally I think a system that classifies all perks then only allows you to bring no more than two of a set type would be better than the diminishing returns were about to get, which still allows killers to bring four slowdowns or four aura with no reduction in power. I'd be perfectly fine with that sort of restriction even if I can no longer bring four aura, if it means other kilers can no longer bring four slowdown.

I do miss old distortion. It still has it's uses but it's so slow to regain tokens now (if you aren't great at chase)

Especially with the up tic in aura read perks recently it would be nice to see a harder counter to aura reads.

It hard counters some. A lot of aura reads will be triggered outside that window, nowhere to hide, I'm all ears etc.

The main thing I liked about distortion was the information it gave. If killer ran multiple aura read perks you would still run out of tokens even with old distortion but to know what aura read perks were in use made a hug difference and allowed you to counterplay. Since survivors have no way of knowing when they were being aura read outside of those perks other than guess work.

It's just yet another aspect of dbd that makes low tier survivor remarkably unpleasant to play while providing limited advantage against high mmr swfs. High level surv players are so effective in chase that they rarely play stealthy and can just run to the nearest loop without worrying about hiding. Whereas new survivor players will hide on instinct which means aura reads will see them killed again and again often without knowing how they were seen until after the game.

The devs said it themselves.

You probably have a source for that claim?

The problem is they are playing a completely different game. Many good survivor wont care to hide or will hide in a safe place (pallet/with sb/etc.)

They will realize an aura perk is in play and in the worst case they lost the prerun distance to the killer.

But bad/new player will hide in deadzones. They realize an aura perk is in play after they give a free hit and cut the chase in half. Sometimes they dont even realize it was an aura perk and fall for it again or dont know which one. Worse some hear the tr and hide in a locker. Decent killer count 1 and 1 together and search the locker near the aura reveal (or even see the locker animation with NtH).

Looping is only uncertain in 50/50s ehat are you talking about? It doesnt matter if the killer has perma aura on you, you can just hold a checkspot and you wont get downed, and you dont have to equip perks for that.

I literallly dont get this looping is supposed to be mindgames mentality, yes some do but those are not the important game changing loops, the ones that eill change the tide of the match are defined by checkspots, distance optimization and even the environment.

If the average player even knew what a checkspot is I swear the game and forums would be so much different, this is like discussing balance in a shooter where like half the playerbase doesnt know how to crouch yet they are very vocal on balance.

This applies to killers as well, don't get me wrong, the average pub killer also leaves a lot to be desired.

Weave attument is working with franklins only and this perk has easy counter just go to corner and drop your item there if it bothers you and killer has two dead perks in term of survivor loosing item which isnt their strongest thing honestly.

So spend a bunch of time stowing your items out of use and still be unable to hit that corner of the map, probably multiple corners. That's not two dead perks, because now survivors cannot use items, and those are a big deal judging by the constant nerf-calls for toolboxes and medkits, and the frustrations about flashlights.

Floods of rage are scourge hook and need other perks to ge good with value or its rng based on 4 random hooks and tbh there are way better scourge hook perks than this one.

Does not fix the problem pointed out, and it does not need another perk to get value.

nowhere to hide can be tricky, easy fix would be that it isnt bound to killers position but the damaged gen so the 24 meters are is near gen thta killer kicked and not around moving killer but other than that that perk isnt super op because killer must take his but to gen and kick it and perks like pain res,ruin make this one not much useable or sometimes even perks like deadlock.

And killers would obviously never want to kick a gen and then immediately get to see the survivor's exact location. Bad perk. That's why it's consistently in top 5.

Aura perks are just something for something like they require survivors to do some action like nurses calling or killer like hooking survivor,openm lockers etc. so he gets info.

'Hooking survivor' is not a requirement that can be held against a killer perk. You are required to hook survivors anyway.

By your thinking pattern the nemesis perk lethal persuer is the most problematic but even if its good perk it only works once and than gives small two seconds of aura for other aura perks so nothing busted.

No, and this is the distinction between BBQ and NTH: BBQ only works on survivors that are a good distance away from the killer, giving them an opportunity to hide after the aura read ends. Lethal Pursuer only works at the start, which is when the survivors should be a good distance away from the killer, once again, giving them an opportunity to hide.

These two perks specifically give the killer direction, but don't hold their hand and just wipe any possibility of hiding. Floods of Rage, Nowhere to Hide and Weave Attunement do not have this restriction.

The perks you mentioned need killer to do something to acquire the aure reading effect and some of tem even dont work well alone like that vecnas perk for items and need other perk to work properly.

If the thing you need to do is just 'play the game', that's hardly a requirement. You're not gonna get anywhere in the game anyway without hitting a survivor (Franklin's + Weave) or hooking them (Floods) and you're almost certainly not gonna play a game without kicking a gen (NTH).

As I said items for 2 killers perks

Actually, items for one killer perk, the other one just adds zoning.

and you dont need to got directly to the each corner just drop it in some dead end

It's a dead end because the killer has no reason to go there and the reason the killer has no reason to go there is because survivors have no reason to go there. It's a dead end for the survivor, too. You're still wasting time running off to a spot you have no reason to be in order to get rid of something that's supposed to help you out.

And when you do it, the killer gets to see your exact location anyway, too.

Floods arent that busted perk as you claim its kinda mid aura perk it gives long reveal but when survivor who is on scourge hook gets unhooked so killer usualy by this time is doing something already and is busy.

Again, does not fix the problem pointed out.

The reason its in most used is because its very reliable many survivors just do gen, get terror radius proc and go few meters from gen and thats where it gets them

A perk that reliably removes an entire component of gameplay does kind of sound like something that's too strong, don't you think?

but this perk just puts you in chase and doesnt kills you immidetly so its not that bad and its pretty easy to tell killer has it because he kicks every gen even the ones that arent needed or worth to kick.

What kind of arguing is this? Because it's not as bad as a hypothetical super-busted OP perk, it's not a problem? With that argumentation, you can bring back insta-gen BNPs because 'it's not that bad, it doesn't provide an immediate insta-escape'.

Yeah you are required to do something to get something from that perks just like many survivors perks that give survivor some effects if they do their objective

There's a ton of survivor perks that are reliant on you doing things that you aren't required to do at all, or things that you may not get the chance to do. Think of Deliverance when someone else gets the unhook, Solidarity when someone else gets the heals off, Inner Strength, Invocations, etc.

But things like FoR and particularly NTH aren't comparable to those because their requirements are just completed passively as you play the game. They're on the level of Sprint Burst and Lithe in terms of 'requirements', not Deliverance.

 its like post BBQ with longer reveal and no range cap but happens when that survivor is unhooked

I don't think you're paying attention.

BBQ's range cap is a -minimum- range. This means that the perk ONLY works to do what was initially said: It gives the killer info to lead them to the next target. It doesn't take their hand and just auto-starts the chase for them, like FoR, Weave and NTH do.

That's why NTH especially is a problem perk.

Additionally, BBQ has a clear indicator of when it is about to fire. Survivors get no such heads-up for FoR unless they're in a swiffer with comms, meaning BBQ has much better counterplay.

And nowhere to hide just works in certain distance (24 meters)

And that radius is pretty huge and it's focused on an area where survivors are pretty much required to go. It's big enough that a survivor cannot escape it without running, which defeats the point of countering NTH since then you'd just be leaving scratch marks.

They have restrictions

To quote: "Floods of Rage, Nowhere to Hide and Weave Attunement do not have this restriction."

I'm not talking about these perks having no restrictions, I'm talking about these perks not being restrained from simply taking the killer's hand and starting the chase for them.

Thats dump comparison because perks give you special effects after you did something in the game which is mostly part of your gameplay objective thats like saying you wont get away from killer without activating sprintburst or lythe because running and vaulting arent your main things to do when you ran from the killer.

Yes, Sprint Burst and Lithe are also perks whose 'activation requirements' are negligible. That's why 'they have activation requirements' is not an argument in NTH's defense and a very slim one for FoR.

For two because Weave is almost unusable without franklins

But not the other way around.

You waste franction of time compare to killer who wasted just two perkslots for one thing that wont happen

The killer wastes no time. Your timewaste is what he gets out of his perks, on top of you having no items anymore, on top of you not being able to hide in that area anymore. That's still plenty of value.

It removes hinding if you dont go away from gen as new megs that ear killer terror radius so they leave but than again the main part the game is build on are chases not hinding so I dont think its broken because there are many perks that counter hiding so this kind of argument falls off.

Just because you personally don't care about that gameplay element doesn't mean it's not a thing. Just because it's not the only problem on the block, doesn't mean it isn't one.

If you compare insta BNP to aura perk

No, you did. You compared NTH to something that just auto-downs a survivor as some kind of argument for it not being a problem.

only thing that holds it is its strong effect.

Yes, its strong effect.

Some might say its 'overly strong' effect.

It'd be a better perk if it had a weaker effect but was more reliable, no?

BBQ doesnt give you just info about who is 40 meters from hook away you miss this perk entire value here which tells me you dont play killer much do you, it gives you info about all survivors if they are in hook range or if they are far away from hook which can help killer to make his decision on where he will stay or patrol or run off this is what many people miss just like you did

Except it doesn't do that. Because BBQ announces when it is going to fire and gives survivors the opportunity to counterplay it.

Sure, you could assume that every aura you DON'T see is within the 40 meter radius.

But you can't be sure of that because lockers exist. And unlike with Floods of Rage, survivors get a heads-up display element that tells them when BBQ is about to fire, which means they can actually opt to use those lockers.

If you don't see an aura, it's -possible- that there's a survivor near you. But it's certainly not guaranteed.

Even if you were to assume that your guess is accurate 100% of the time, you are still left with an area with a diameter of 80 meters in which the survivor can be hiding. And unlike with the other problem aura perks, BBQ will tell you nothing more. You will have to find them yourself, as the perk won't simply tell you their exact location.

And doesnt NTH have warning too? Like when killer is kicking gen which is loud and can be seen or super easily predicted if he is oing it often (because he runs this perk obviously or maybe oppression), survivors dont know when is their teammate about to get hooked that greatly its there but its not that super clear especialy for soloq where many just dont even know where killer got down and where to look at on screen to expect that few seconds for hook aura of their teammate.

Accusing me of not knowing how a perk works from the killer side, but are you seriously unaware that survivors can see when their teammate is being picked up? And barring the one exception of a killer going a piggy-back build, if a survivor is being picked up, they're about to be hooked. That's a lot of forewarning that BBQ gives that NTH and FoR do not.

These perks take someones hand as many other does they are info perks so logicaly even for 13 old they will help you in where you can have no clue where someone is

No, this is where the critical distinction lies.

BBQ tells you where to LOOK for someone. NTH, FoR, WA tell you where someone IS.

BBQ gives you clues, NTH, FoR, WA tell you the answer straight-up.

BBQ gives you a general area that you will have to search with your own eyes and skills, while NTH, FoR and WA remove all requirement for any competency in that field.

BBQ is a tool to help you in your job. NTH, FoR and WA just take your hand and do your job for you.

That is the problem distinction. That is why the latter perks are the death-knell of stealth, while BBQ is completely fine.

Floods are way harder to activate than pain res

They have the exact same activation requirement.

 if it was I believe devs would already touched that perk

If you still have faith in BHVR, you must be really new here.

But thats not the point. Its not about going unseen the entire match.

It's not about going unseen because this perk precludes that completely. It's a total shutdown of an entire playstyle that became the new standard to such an ingrained extent that another perk had to be nerfed to make room for it.

You are greatly underestimating Weave/Franklin's. I went up against a p100 Trapper yesterday running it. He hooked me in a central location with items littered around and tried to keep everyone away. I know the counter so, after unhook, I tried to move the items—and got downed again in the process.

And it was a taste of my own medicine because I use this combo a lot myself. I can attribute my 80% KR on Dredge to it. It's counterable, sure, but the counters have risks. You will be seen both picking up and dropping the items, and you'll be oblivious. And the items almost always end up around downs/hooks, so the camping potential is crazy. There's zero way to approach the hook without being seen, and if you're creeping around for a save after a down, you'll also be seen. I'm glad a lot of people sleep on these two perks because without knowledge and coordination, they're a nightmare.