Grimoire Chapter Perks revealed

Lay Waste - fine

Under Your Thumb - Pure guesswork perk, I hate these designs, but its what DbD is leaning into

Vigilance - Easy tunnel, you don't even have to rush back to the gen. Going to really miss old Off the Record.

Steadfast - Lol, what? Are we trying to make the Invocations feel better by outdoing them with perks that are actually disadvantages?

Salvation's Cry - Like a reverse bond. Pretty bad.

Fruits of Your Labor - the one seems pretty strong.

I guess Steadfast is what happens when a bunch of people voted for ‘perk that makes gen progress permanent’ and the devs realised they needed to make it not preposterously overpowered in the meta environment of Stakeout/Hyperfocus/Deja Vu/Fast Track being so strong and nuclear-powered toolboxes being untouched for years.

Salvation’s Cry is actually a nice perk for giving your team information, so it probably will see zero use.

Fruits of Your Labour has potential to be really annoying for Killer to deal with since it allows Survivors not to worry about healing and also gives weird haste numbers.

Lay Waste having such a long cooldown with an actually relatively weak effect means it will get no use over existing regression perks.

Under Your Thumb has amazing potential to weaken a bunch of meta exhaustion perks. But I’d rather they just nerfed Vigil and SB instead.

Vigilance is weird. Reverse OoO could be really good with certain perks like Friends Till the End or it could just be kinda useless. As always, it’s the kind of perk that Nurse and Blight can use to viciously tunnel while being of no value to low-tier Killers.

People saw "permanent gen progress" and clicked on it.

Tbf, the crow perk would be yet another Haste perk, so I don't mind it not existing.

IMO Boons are only miss at this point. Sure, I have seen games where a good Exponential was really helpful or where a CoH helped to reset quickly, but those were really the exceptions. Most of the time Survivors are wasting time setting up something which is not worth the time they spent on it. So this alone was a reason to not vote for that Perk for me. But also it said it will give Gen Progression and I just knew it will not be good, because we dont get good Gen Progression Perks. And while those Perks are only concepts so far, the recent Drama on Fast Track lets me doubt that they will buff the Perk.

The Crow Perk on the other hand had more positives for me:

• Crows are underused, there is only a handful of Perks which somewhat interact with Crows (and this is counting Calm Spirit, which basically removes Crows from that one Survivor)
• A Crow Perk overall sound way more interesting than a Gen Progression Perk or a Boon Perk
• There was more potential that it was actually good.

So a Perk which might have been good and most likely would at least have been more fun. But I am not surprised that people voted for Gen Progression, but IMO it should have been clear that it will not be a good Perk.

Anti-3-gen perk in the sense you can block your teammates from clearing the wrong gen. Repressed Alliance in boon form.

That is, if you're lucky enough to even get skillchecks for that 1%.

Wait, you're actually right. This can't go on live servers like that

Steadfast if built with Hyperfocus and other perks to increase your skill checks could work, but Hyperfocus builds already have good syngery perks that I'm not sure why you would choose Steadfast.

Under Your Thumb is also just bad. It really only affects exhaustion haste but it's a hex. Killers have access to many exhaustion inflicting perks that would be more useful than this while also not being a hex. Just make it prevent survivors from gaining any haste.

Villigiance is just killer OoO, but I don't see why you would use this over other aura perks.

Lay Waste is fine except for the long cooldown.

Salvation Cry is kindred for chase so honestly a decent pork.

Fruits of your Labor. Healing speed is fine I guess but why 2s haste? That sounds rather useless.

Well that's disappointing, looks like I'll do my two adept matches and then never use the perks again

As with all permanent progress options, I think it's meant to be used for contested gens, because it lessens how much the killer can regress it.

Obviously in all scenarios you'd rather have a gen finished than partially done, but if finishing it is going to be a longer process because the killer can effectively pressure it, permanent charge reduction is a useful effect.

Don't get me wrong, I'd personally never use this perk, but there's a world of difference between it having only niche uses and it being a perk that benefits the killer more than the survivor.

The thing I keep returning to is that if you just bring a toolbox, you have a perk that - after setting it up - you get permanent progression for great skill checks, and I can certainly think of ways that effect would be useful. The bigger concern for me is if my teammates run it and screw me over as a result.

I'm not sure I agree that permanent progress is only useful if the regression eats away all the normal progress, that's just not really how this mechanic works?

Taking charges off the top of a gen is important because afterwards, any % regression the killer applies will represent less survivor repair time to undo, that's the major strength of doing it this way. That's why it's helpful for contested gens, all regression will just be flat less effective on it.

So, set up the boon and use a toolbox + something like One-Two-Three-Four or Deadline if you're feeling fancy, your repair speed isn't debuffed because you're using the toolbox to offset it and you're getting more skillchecks from both the toolbox and whatever else you decided to bring. From that point every great skill check weakens regression on that generator, which is useful if it's part of a three-gen the killer might want to try and pressure you away from, or it's a central gen the killer would want to try and protect.

Now I'll stop and repeat here, I don't think this perk is going to be very good and I do think it should probably get changes. My point is that THIS is the use case, so THIS is what should be discussed, and then additionally the main concern with the perk outside of it just maybe not being that good is that your teammates might screw you over with it.

Gut instinct, just seeing it on paper and not being able to test, it should probably give greater charges off the generator for every great skill check and should probably have less of a repair speed penalty, maybe 25-30% or something. Mostly though, I don't know how to fix it screwing over solo queue teammates, which is I think what we should be focusing on a bit more.
Setting that aside, the basic premise of the perk does function, it just looks like it has kinda low numbers. The basic premise of "downside you compensate for and upside of weakening regression" seems fine on paper to me, I'd just not use it.

Taking charges off the top of a gen is important because afterwards, any % regression the killer applies will represent less survivor repair time to undo

1: We don't have many perks that are doing damage based on % complete anymore. We're looking at much more frequent flat rates.

2: Even to the extent they do, the progress you lost by going 50% slower is going to far eclipse the minor adjustment from from having a few less percent applied to the killer's regression event. There's not a killer perk in the game that's going to make 50 charges worse than 10 permanent and 20 regular.

your repair speed isn't debuffed because you're using the toolbox to offset it

No.

Your repair speed is absolutely debuffed because you could just be running the toolbox without the boon. You have to compare like scenarios.

I suspect it's meant to be more of an anti-slug. Like if you're downed long enough to 80+ percent recover, then once a gen pops you get back up with a bit of haste for distance

Aren't most % regression perks total now?

Mathematically on the total progress it takes a lot of permanent progress to make an actual difference (I could have been clearer on this one).

20 permanent charges (which would be a massive amount to accumulate via Steadfast) would only reduce the value of Pop by 3 charges/normal seconds. At -50% progress you're losing out on a lot more progress than you need to recover.

The main charge eater then becomes the 0.25 c/s flat rate, and the permanent charges aren't going to matter there unless all the normal progress is regressed.

The second point is more about the numbers, which I agree look undertuned.

If they change the numbers, then we can change our discussion, but right now I don't think its close to even 'okay'.

As for the last part, no, your speed isn't debuffed, it just isn't increased. There is a meaningful difference between those two things.

There's really not that much. In both situations the perk has debuffed your speed from what it would have been if not for the perk.

To evaluate a perk we should try and minimize as many variable as possible, thus keeping the toolbox true in both scenarios. Because if we start imagining toolbox vs non-toolbox well then we have to start asking what the survivor has in the non-toolbox scenario (i.e. a medkit) to make a meaningful comparison.

that's an insult to treacherous crows, mate. these perks are just buns.

Salvation Cry seems aight..

What?

If you run the toolbox and the perk together, the buff and debuff cancel out, resetting you to neutral. You are no longer operating at under the normal repair speed. In this scenario, you've effectively circumvented the debuff. That's what I'm saying, I don't really know where you're coming from here.

For the rest, like I said, you have to compare the four setups to one another: Just the perk, just the toolbox, both together, and neither.

Obviously just the toolbox is best, but toolbox and perk is better than the other two scenarios. Is it worth going for? Eh. Probably not, the perk could probably use some buffs based on what we've seen.
As I said, my position is that the perk itself needs to be looked at in its reasonable use cases instead of in a vacuum, is mediocre in that evaluation, and has a far bigger problem than it just being mediocre.

I'm a little confused, I think you might be arguing against a position I don't hold here?

So, to be clear: Equipping both the perk and the toolbox provides a buff and debuff that cancel each other out. While you're repairing in that scenario, the end result is neither a buff nor a debuff to repair speed, it's neutral.

I'm not treating the +50% as part of Steadfast, I'm treating it as part of the combination I'm discussing.

I guess to be completely thorough, I wouldn't really argue that requiring a toolbox to offset the debuff is a good thing, but that's the scenario I was looking at in that section of my post.