Sprint Burst nerfed but Ghoul still in a broken state. Why?
Perks like Sprint Burst + Vigil are necessary to deal with top tier killers. Yet because the loud minority of killer players complained, this combo gets gutted despite killers like Ghoul still being in a laughably broken state over a year past his release. And no, the “nerfs” that Ghoul got were not significant and he is still way too strong for how easy he is to play.
Why keep playing survivor? If every tool we have to deal with the BS that killers get gets taken away why even bother? I really hope killer players enjoy the 5+ minute queues. You asked for this.
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Could you please elaborate on what is putting them in a broken state in your opinion?
Also, please elaborate what you mean by bs killer gets?
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Actually with Ghoul in his current state, SB and Vigil do nothing to him. He laughs at that perk and most top tier killers are only slightly inconvenienced by it. BHVR thinks a nerf to sprint burst will make more bottom tier killers viable, but all I think they did was make it easier for the top tier.
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Does everyone play Ghoul? No. Ghoul is stronger than he should be and a nerf is overdue, but he is one of the 5 strongest Killers in DBD. Balancing the game solely around Ghoul is ridiculous precisely because he is so overpowered in comparison to virtually every other Killer. Half the Killer roster feel unplayable right now because the strongest Survivor perks combined with antitunnel and anticamp make Survivors so strong and safe. DBD needs a serious reining in of the power level at both ends, so we don't have Ghoul and Jason on one side along with Sprint Burst and Vigil while at the other end we have Trapper and Skull Merchant with Cut Loose and Red Herring.
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If you can't win without using those perks that's a skill issue, survivors complained about hexes (strong with Jason) and slugging becoming strong currently (as it counters a bunch of meta survivor perks which are pretty bs from the killer perspective like shoulder the burden, ds, dh and many others) so coulrophobia and thrill got nerfed so bhvr does listen to survivors too as well as no where to hide getting nerfed which is strong on killers like Ghoul, bhvr is trying to shift the stale meta (SB was a meta perk for 10 years and vigil is a very strong perk and they will still remain strong after the nerf, SB is literally the best exhaustion perk as it doesn't require any activation, you can still use lithe and it wouldn't nerf a worse version of SB, vigil is , there will be many buffs to both sides to weak perks and those that are effected by diminishing returns like that haste boon maybe).
Now ghoul, he is not the strongest killer and there are like 7 stronger killers than him, the easy aspect of him is getting a free hit (plague and legion do that) and very strong mobility, but he still needs to loop to get a down, the very skillful part is cutting off the survivor with the ability to down them and that's what really makes ghoul A tier, he would be B tier otherwise.
I bet I can name more survivor bs then you can name killer bs, the base kit bt did get nerfed but it got the elusive now which makes it basically impossible to track the survivor so less tunneling then with just 15s of endurance which was often abused, like this a buff to all survivors, not a just a nerf to a few perks which not everyone is using.
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^ this. Whenever something on the Survivor Side gets nerfed or needs nerfing (according to Killer Mains), then the reasoning is "M1 Killers". This has just become a buzzword at this point. Because we all know that if Sprint Burst and Vigil are nerfed, people will not just suddenly drop their Ghoul, Blight or Jason and play Trapper or Ghostface instead.
The problem with weak Killers being weak is that there is an issue with those Killers. And not with the stuff Survivors have. Nerfing Sprint Burst and Vigil only benefits strong Killers, because those are actually played. Sure, there is the odd Trapper which will benefit from it, but if I look at my games, I barely go against M1-Killers.
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I keep playing survivor because I enjoy it most of the time. The times I don’t enjoy it are when my teammates are terrible at the because of the non-functional matchmaking that keeps putting me with new players, not because killers are too difficult to deal with.
Please explain what you mean by “BS that killers get”-3 -
I mean nerfing top tier and borderline overpowered perks does inadvertently make lower tiers more viable yes. This is how balancing works. Just look at the course of marvel rivals before the current season. Captain America was considered a B tier tank for a long time, but some nerfs to the top characters there made Cap more viable even though he wasn't adjusted at all.
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Ghoul is technically a M1 killer btw
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All this shows is that the term "M1 Killer" really has no meaning.
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Ghoul isn't that big of a deal anymore ever since the removal of the vault QoL feature. People conflate being popular and loud with OP.
hes gonna be popular no matter what.
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For SB + Vigil combo, most mobility killers/top tiers do not care. It is unbelievably easy and busted as it gives you a good headstart/ability to reach safety for majority of the match against any killer that doesn't have a good mobility tool to close this distance. And this is the majority of killer players that do complain. And this combo is only getting toned down, SB and Vigil will still be in top 10 best survivor perks.
Survivor perk design has reached critical point where the effort you have to put to get these ridiculous effects is laughable. Killers do not really have any equivalences aside possibly NOED. You can reset yourself in 4s with resurgence (1.5s if you have lend a hand), pick up slugged teammates quickly and give them huge chunk of endurance, prolong the hook stage to 100s etc. My biggest concern when playing survivor isn't facing Nurse etc but hoping my teammates have a braincell or 2.
As for Ghoul. Putting aside how Nurse, Billy, Blight and Twins are better than him and should be looked at first, a soft rework encouraging actually cutting off people with your power should be made. But with how most average survivor teams aren't comfortable being injured I doubt Ghoul will ever be loved by the wider survivor community even if he became some low B tier killer
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Erm, ackually, no. Ghoul's power can be used during a chase in order to secure a down. M1 killers are killers who whose M2 does not benefit them at all when chasing a survivor, like Trapper, Hag, Ghostface or Plague without the vomit boost. If you mean he's a killer who has to press M1 to get a down, then Singularity and Spirit are M1 killers.
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Survivor perk design has reached critical point where the effort you have to put to get these ridiculous effects is laughable.
Meh, you are talking about Perks which are years old here. Perks were simpler back then. Todays Perk Design, especially for Survivor, is that you have to do a lot of time waste for an effect which is not worth the time wasted.
And lets not act as if Killer Perks like Deadlock, Corrupt Intervention or Pain Resonance really require that effort to use.
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So you admit that sprint burst + vigil were perks that survivors used for a crutch?
I just want to understand this here
edit: Im serious trying to understand this combo because i used deception, red herring, blast mine, and illusion and the killer chasing me loses all the time because I just simply keep going forward and vaulting if needed. Rarely drop pallets unless needed
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Sprint Burst and Vigil are just the current flavors why Killers lose games. People who think they should 4K every game are complaining about them. And the same people complained about other Perks before. And will complain about the next Perks once the Nerfs went through.
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ghoul is not op.
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I am not speaking for them, but I think the problems most people have with Ghoul, and the like is their mobility?
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Skill Issue. Sorry, Ghoul is a killer that with his free hit must work harder then any other S tier killer(As well, as the fact there's multiple guides on how to counter him), Sprint Burst is one of the most uninteractive playstyles for any killer and that's why it was nerfed.
If you want to see how easy it is to loop him, just watch this video (likely skip to 1 minute)
Obviously it's gideon, but either way, you should be lasting more then 30 seconds in a chase with him.
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Sprint burst nerf is unneccesary. It has felt always balanced perk for me.
Ghoul however for me is not that hard to loop. But I quess this is subjective opinion.
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In my post i was more so referring to the meta perks, not every single perk created nowadays. Should have made it clearer tbh
Eh, I think overall perk design is falling apart due to just how many we have compared to how simple dbd is. I agree survivors get affected more just becouse we have a higher number of them compared to killers.
Pain Res, Deadlock and Corrupt aren't what they used to be in terms of strength. I kinda prefer the modern versions of latter 2. Facing builds with deadlock, noed, corrupt was never very interesting or fun. Pain Res can be wasted, you still need to down the survivor then judge if going for further scourge hook is worth it. I see quite a bit of people mismanaging this perk.
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It just means that Ghoul needs a nerf. It's true that he doesn't care nearly as much about SB as most other killers, but that's because he's one of the strongest killers in the game with high mobility. He's overdue for some changes, but it doesn't mean those perks weren't also an issue too
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This all just boils down to a meritless argument of we can't nerf [broken thing] on one side because [broken thing] exists on the other side. By that logic we can't nerf anything, ever.
I don't think Sprint Burst should be nerfed either. I think they should just make Vigil not affect exhaustion and exposed if it remains a 15 second lingering affect attached to a survivor. Then Sprint Burst would be subject to a normal 40 second cooldown instead of 24s or 28s after the Vigil nerf.
Also, after recently acquiring the Ghoul I don't think he is that easy to play.
Now downvote me into oblivion.
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Its been a meta perk for 10 years and hasn't been changed for 9 year. In what world is a hard meta perk for that long balanced?
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I mean, sure, Pain Res needs to be managed, you need to have some understanding of macro gameplay, because otherwise it hits a 2% Gen and is wasted completely. I see this when I play Survivor.
My point was more that the Perks also dont need much of a requirement to activate. Like, Pain Res is just doing normal gameplay things, Corrupt Intervention and Deadlock dont require anything from the Killer. Both sides have good Perks which dont require much to use.
And personally I am not against Perks without much effort which have strong effects. Because as I said before, most Perks designed nowadays (simply because it is more difficult to create Perks) just have unreasonable requirements for their effect. An easy example would be Apocalyptic Ingenuity, doing two Chests for a fragile Pallet (which also takes 4 seconds to create) is simply not worth it in any way, you will never extend the chase enough with this fragile Pallet to compensate for the time searching and opening/rummaging the Chest.
Another thing would be Overzealous, Repair Speed Increase sounds nice, but it only helps if you repair 3 Gens or so while not being injured after using the Perk. For Killers it is at least a bit better, because their activation requirements usually dont require them to go out of their way of normal gameplay AND they have the advantage of not all being played the same, so some Perks might actually find use on some Killers while Survivor Perks always have to compete with the best Perks.
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Why would I ever not play one of the best killers in the game when I'm always fighting against the strongest survivor perks? Not gonna put up with the stress or put myself in a huge disadvantage when playing a weak M1 killer.
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You contradicted yourself in the same post. You said SB and Vigil do nothing to Kaneki and only inconvenience top tier killers. Then you go on to say that all you think it did was make top tier killer easier. If the margin of helping lower tier killers is greater than helping the higher tier, why would you be in disagreement of that? Nurse, Blight, Drac, and Kaneki don't care about SB and Lithe that much because they all have MOBILITY. The nerf does nothing to them. For a P 67 Trickster main like myself, it'll do wonders.
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