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Debunking "MoM is fine"
I'm sick of reading that MoM is fine. Here will create this post so everyone can use it and link it to everyone who keeps claiming that.
So, what are the points of the people to validate MoM as beeing g absolutely fine?
1) "it's situational, u can't use it every match"
Guess what, old DS was situational aswell, was it therefore a balanced perk and fine? No, ofc not. Logical fallacy to validate it.
2) "U can counter it"
Yeaaa no. Counterplay is limited. U need to do ONLY M2 attacks with Billy, Bubba, Huntress and Plague which is absolutely unrealistic against smart survivors. Or use some insane addons (tombstone for example) or ebony moris.
Point can be dismissed.
3) "u can see the aura"
And? As if aura would mean anything. The best survivors I encountered are using OoO just so the killer goes for them cuz they are confident af to run you for minutes. Also, 99% healing and adrenaline meta exists, noone cares to fully heal.
4) "it's not like old DS"
Exactly, it's even stronger. No reaction time required to hit a skillcheck, just keep holding W. No obsession mechanic required, you can always use it no matter if your mates are using it aswell or not.
5) "not everyone is using MoM"
First, it doesn't matter, the existence by itself is the issue. However I will debunk this aswell: it's a fresh perk of a paid DLC. Ofc not everyone has it to begin with. Once in the shrine we will all know that majority will use it cuz its strong af and will become meta.
Edit:
6) "MoM is only 1 use, therfore it's weak"
Old DS was 1 time use only aswell, was it weak? Hell no, everyone knows how strong it was. This sentence mostly comes from heavily survivors biased players without real game knowledge.
Comments
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I am sick of people saying that it is DS 2.0. It isnt.
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You know the earlier it activates, the faster you waste a powerful perk, right?
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1) From old DS, MoM is more situational. Yet still easy to trigger.
2) Yep agreed
3) Aura should start as soon as you get injured/healed to full
4) Not exactly. It wastes less time than old DS.
5) Probbs
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Yeah, cuz it's even better lol
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It isnt. But you would not care for arguments, eh?
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1) Only obsession DS was (maybe) less situational. Overall, MoM isn't that situational as people are trying to make it look like.
4) u get an extra speedboost + killer cleans his weapon. That alone wastes more time. Put enduring on old DS and the difference is even bigger.
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U r the one who talks without presenting his reasons.
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That irony, lol!
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For anyone saying MoM is fine, Let's introduce a Killer perk of the same equivalent.
After hitting a Survivor 3 times, the next hit on said survivor in the healthy state is an instadown. After hooking the survivor, your Aura will be revealed when you are farther than 12/14/16 metres from the Survivor.
You see how broken that is? Free instadowns and Free Second chances need to have serious drawbacks because of how strong they are. The Devs should know this, and probably did but went ahead and made an OP Perk for ash to sell him.
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I'm just gonna bookmark this.
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It's a clever marketing strategy, I'll give them that. Scummy but effective.
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Yeah stats true, a smart play of the devs to get the fast money. But it hurts in the long run.
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No need to debunk it.
Literally everyone who is not a biased MoM user knows how broken this perk is.
Survivors can now tank an insane amount of hits (BT,DS,DH,MoM,Instaheals,ecc..)
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Because I feel they would be pointless. But lets give it a try:
So, we dont have any indication if a player is using MoM. It is an Obsession Perk, but having an Obsession can also mean that someone in the Trial is running DS. That Obsession can run MoM or not, no one knows.
With DS, we had an Obsession and it was 99,99% sure that this person was running DS (given the fact that the Killer is not using an Obsession Perk).. Because the other somehow commonly used Perk was OoO and the Killer will notice this earlier.
So I would say, knowing that this Survivor has DS is a good and bad thing. It can give you the information that you should not chase that guy or, and this would be bad, it could lead you into not chasing him, even if he might be a bad player (because most of the Survivors running DS were not really good at chases, lets be honest). So I personally felt a little bit robbed from the chase, even at the beginning, because I know that this guy has DS AND my chase will be negated. Of course, the Survivor can miss the Skill Check, but well... Usually this does not happen. Or should not happen, when they are used to DS.
I dont have this feeling with MoM. Usually, MoM will get two Stacks during the first chase, and the Survivor is downed at this point. HUGE difference to DS, because while the Survivor is downed then, he will get off the Killers Shoulder. But with MoM, the Survivor is down, and it is a Hook. This means: Points for Hooking, BBQ Stack, Information where other Survivors are and to unhook that guy, at least two Survivors are not on Gens at this point, even more possible when they are Solo and the hooked person does not run Kindred.
For DS, there was some form of counter, called Enduring and Dribbling. But those, if even possible to called counter, were not that useful. Enduring helped, but not enough. And Dribbling took time and was not possible all the time.
Later in the game, MoM will most likely trigger, but I had enough occasions where it did not trigger then. And, given the fact that most of the Time MoM-Users also run Adrenaline, NOED Is some form of Counter to MoM, since it puts from Healthy to Dying. But I would rate it as a counter like Dribbling was to DS, you can call it a counter, but you are generous doing so.
And now, lets not forget the biggest Bullshit in existence - Non-Obsession DS. This was simply the most annoying thing that ever existed, and made DS even more broken. Like, you chase that guy, he apparently does not have DS, you finally down him and then he gets off after a little bit of wiggling. I think there is nothing that could be more frustrating. I have seen one game from tru3, where he chased a good Survivor. The chase was quite long, it would have been a Basement Hook (with Huntress), but then the Survivor had DS. This is basically the worst thing that could happen, a competent Survivor with Non-Obsession DS.
I mean, I had the same in one game - got a Basement Hook as Leatherface. Huge thing. But nope, Non-Obsession DS. I honestly felt like I would have to DC at this point.
So yeah, I think that MoM is nowhere near DS. I am using MoM, mostly because I dont care anymore, I get facecamped with 5 Gens and Ruin still on without any reason, Killers are also using their most broken Add-Ons, if they like, without caring for any fun for the other side, so I stopped caring for it. I am not a dick ingame, but I use strong Perks. But even now, I would never use the old DS, because for me, it is far worse than MoM.
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I don't even mind MoM all THAT much, even though i'm a Wraith.
It's the combination of everything now that's frustrating.
Seeing in the scoreboard screen that someone runs BT, MoM, an instea-heal and whatnot, it's just ugh.
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I don't like using it... even if everyone says it's op or w/e I find it weak and pathetic compared to old DS... but then I barely used DS back then too so maybe that's why.
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Personally, I don’t see this issue. The aura makes it easier to track the survivor you originally chased, and can be easily countered by exposed/one shot killers.
MoM’s perk is a one time thing. I don’t think it’s worth running if it only nets one extra hit.
Even if the extra hit is annoying— MoM’s drawback is too great to ignore. Similar to DS? Yes. But is there some level on counterplay? Free tracking of a survivor. As a survivor and killer main, it’s frustrating, yes— but it’s benefits are outweighed by its cons.
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it's a weak perk tested it for the first week and was done with it. I feel like people get stupider when they use it. The only things I would add is make aura happen when you're injured and maybe you get exhaustion when you get hit to avoid perks like dead hard for those that do complain. I haven't had a problem with this perk yet as killer so I naturally think it is weaker.
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MoM is not only a OP perk but also unfun to play against and it dosent get better that its locked behind a paywall. But the worst about MoM is that it shows how the devs operate they make a second chance perk on purpose to earn more money with a dlc eventhough they know since years how we hated DS. They dont care about the game only fast money.
The reason why MoM is so rediculus is 4 people can have it so it can net 4 extra hits and you can combine it with exhaustion perks and other second chance perks like unbreakable and DS. The ammount of additional hits you can take via perks or avoid combined multiplied by 4 is what causes the issue. If you couldnt equip an exhaustion perk if you equip MoM i would be fine with it personally. But since that is probably not going to happen better rework it.
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1) Fair Enough
4) Old DS required to - Hit/Down the survivor, clean up the weapon, pick up the downed survivor, they hit the skillcheck and run, start chasing
MoM requires - Get Hit, Clean up the weapon, start chasing
(btw im not defending MoM it should get changed)
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Time to look at MoM from a different perspective - the Killers.
There was the expected obsession DS that could be drippled if you played smart (chase the survivor until they're close to a hook and only then down them).
There were the unexpected wiggle DS which could've been avoided aswell by being aware of your hooks while downing a Survivor.
That's 3 DS I almost always managed to avoid because of smart and well-planned playstyles. One DS that I sometimes had to eat due to smart Survivors not running close to hooks.
With MoM I am pretty much forced to eat all the ones that exist. I can't avoid them, they're random and the Killer naturally activates them by just playing the game, assuming they're performing well and hit them often. You can't really counter them either.
Even from a Survivors point of view MoM is a lot stronger. Not in all situations, but overall this perk saves you from getting hooked a lot more often than old DS did, guaranteed.
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It's not as powerful as you think
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It's not hard to understand it's power.
It's straight forward an additional hit. It's better than an instaheal because you don't have to stand still and use an item, it will trigger automatically when you get hit.
So tell me, what exactly makes it less powerful than I think it is?
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It's not as weak as you think.
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It's just that, an extra hit.
It's powerful only when used with other things.
Imagine this.
You just hooked the survivor. Gets immediately unhooked. Borrowed time, DS, MoM and an insta-heal.
Now you can say it's powerful, because other things are put against you added to it.
They should make it so that if MoM is active and you get saved BT doesn't activate, to avoid abuse of all of that.
MoM alone is just an extra hit. It can be strong alone only in the endgame when the gates are open.
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I think you underestimate the power of an extra hit. What's the average hits a Killer lands in a trial? Would be interesting to see such stats.
4x MoM could result in a dead Survivor. (4 hits = injured and 3x downed)
4x MoM and 4x BT could result in 2 dead Survivors.
4 x MoM, 4x BT, 4x DS could result in 3 dead Survivors
4x MoM, 4x BT, 4x DS and 4x Ded Hard could result in 4 dead Survivors
In the meantime the Killer ends up with nothing at all. Effectively zero progression even though they did the work that could result in 4 kills if they had no perks. That's how strong those perks are.
One MoM per trial is no big deal but the main fact most players seem to forget (or purposely ignore):
Survivors that tend to use MoM also like to use DS, DH, BT, Adrenaline ect. The reason why they use those perks IS to get as many 2nd chances as possible. So IF you see a MoM in a SWF, chances are very high that you're going to see the whole collection of 2nd chance perks. Not just once. Not just twice. Up to 4 times for a single trial.
So yes, to you MoM might not be that powerful - that's why I clearly said in the beginning of my post, look at it from a different perspective. The Killers perspective, for example.
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People need to realise that their thoughts and feelings don't impact how OP a perk's effects are.
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I think a lot of people that defend mettle of man don't understand how its drawback works
If mettle of man activates and you go into the dying state, the aura reading can never go active.
That means the only time mettle of man has a drawback is when it gives you a free escape and are dumb enough to not 99% heal.
If you get the mettle of man hit protection, and they down you later in that chase, mettle of man has no drawback. You can heal to full as soon as someone picks you up, or you get off a hook.
Considering you can just 99% heal as well, mettle of man does not have a drawback, its a free hit for every survivor. Its brokenly overpowered.
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thats true. DS has counterplay now.
its more like the old version of DS: OP, unfun, has no counters and meta perk #1.
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MoM was only made to sell the Ash DLC more. I also have a theory that they reworked legion only because he was the best counter to it. People have been asking for their rework ever since he came out. Radio silence.
MoM comes out and he hard counters it - INTRODUCING LEGION REWORK! Greedy af.
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No, DS still doesn't have counterplay.
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Better than old DS? No, definitely not. Does it take less skill than old DS (which took like no effort on the survivor's part anyway)? Yeah sure.
The thing with current MoM is that it pretty much only effects M1 killers. No counterplay is offered for them against this perk. It barely affects you if you're good at Hillbilly and other top-tier killers. So it has counterplay, just not for killers that are already weak for whatever reason.
I really think it should be changed to be better against killers that are top tier to even the playing field. If they want it to be a strong perk, they can do it without widening the gap between good killers and bad ones.
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Ok, as long as survivors leave generators when they reach 10% of progress.
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I wish there was a Survivor equivalent to Judith's Tombstone or a Mori. What would that look like? Upon spawning in the trial, find the exit gate and instantly open it for an escape? And then the second would complete a generator and another randomly-chosen generator will be automatically completed. A free instant exit with no requirement other than just finding the exit. I think many killers would complain, if they joined a match and within minutes everyone got to escape because they just happen to have a certain add-on or offering. Depriving them of any opportunity to pip, or earn any points.
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And? As if aura would mean anything
Being delusional 101. Aura reading can be very powerful, just the other day I sniped a MoM user from half map away with the Huntress. That's just an example, but saying aura reading is useless is stupid.
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Are you talking about keys?
Are you talking about the newly added ability to escape with zero gens done?
Please clarify.
Also, if you think Tombstones are "instant" and require no set-up (or sometimes m/s sacrifice), you probably need to read up on them via the wiki or try them yourself :-/
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I just tunnel Obsessions when I am not using obsession perks, get rid of it faster and punishes them for having it.
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Totally works and makes sense during the Endgame, especially when stacked with other second chance perks like BT/MOM/ADREN/DH.
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treat MoM how you treat borrowed time without the deep wound status. Just another hit. Once I thought borrowed time was MoM when it wasn't :D.
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I usually don't camp, so I encounter BT in less than 1% of my matches.
"Just" another hit. U really try to make it sounding like nothing.
"Just" one hit less should be fine aswell right? "Just treat as Hillbillys chainsaw. Or noed."
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@HavelmomDaS1 noed and billy also aren’t OP.
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Heal to 99%, stop. Wait until you actually get in a chase and the killer knows where you are, heal 1%, wow what a draw back.
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